Overtaking

pburns

I overtake quite a lot and never, if ever get flashed. If you're getting this on a regular basis you're obviously doing something wrong.

Marcus.Aurelius

I remember my housemate, in the Guards, telling me that he gets flashed occasionally when he overtakes slow drivers in the traffic car, he can't fathom the arrogance at all.

It could be some people's style of driving, but I notice its mostly jealousy and rage at being overtaken by someone with better driving style

ZiabR

To the OP.

I get this alot of the time. And i know i will get flamed for this but i feel it is because of the car i drive which is totally unfair. I do believe in the law but what gets on my nerves the most is people who refuse to drive anywhere near the speed limit for a given road. I am talking about your 60km drivers on a 100km road etc. These cause crashes and makes people take chances.

I have quite a powerfull car but i do know its limitations and how much space i need to safely overtake people but i have got the lights flashing, horns beebing and the finger on more than one occasion.

Marcus.Aurelius

well said!

Photoguy

OP, 100m isnt nearly enough, 2 cars heading towards each other at even 80kmh and I assume you're doing more than that if youre overtaking, will close 100m in about 2.1seconds.
Leave more room see if you still get flashed.

Saruman

I wonder, is one flash or a torrent of them? Im only talking about the car you are overtaking here by the way.
The reason i ask is that when a truck overtakes another truck, the truck being overtaken flashes the overtaking truck to signal its safe for them to pull in front now.
Maybe some drivers do this too? Then again, maybe they are just arrogant assholes who think they are first in the line of traffic and they do not want anyone in front.

colsers22

pburns wrote: »

I overtake quite a lot and never, if ever get flashed. If you're getting this on a regular basis you're obviously doing something wrong.

+1
Think of all the times you see someone overtaking in a dangerous place with insufficient room.. Most people aren't getting flashed for overtaking safely. You must be doing something wrong OP

alias no.9

lightening wrote: »

Is it? I honestly didn't know this. I have done it in the past with excellent visibility and a perfectly clear road ahead of me. There was five cars driving quiet slowly. They each had left quiet a small distance between them.

Any of those cars in front may chose to overtake at the same time. The ones near the front of the queue will check their mirrors and not recognise your intention to overtake because their view is compromised by the cars in between. They need much less time to complete their manouver than you do and as such may overtake at a much more leisurely pace. Say you both commit to the manouver at the same time, without them being in any way in the wrong, they become an obstacle to your manouver very quickly and compromise your ability to complete it safely.
Worse still, and I've witnessed this first hand and know of another similar incident where I knew both drivers involved, you do see an indicator a few cars ahead and assume they're about to overtake but you see a huge stretch clear ahead and move out anyway assuming you'll both be able to make it. Suddenly they brake and begin to make a right turn into a gateway, you've already dropped a cog, put the foot down and a split second after they checked their mirror, you've moved out, the cars in front of you brake because they see the car that's turning right, sure you can hit the brakes but which direction do you point the car?

lightening wrote: »

They still need to check their mirrors and signal before doing so!

What about the oncoming traffic? The reason they hadn't commenced an overtaking manouver was oncoming traffic. That's the same reason that makes it unsafe for cars further back the queue to overtake. The poster I replied to seemed to think nothing of overtaking when there's oncoming traffic, in fact he (or she) said

Black Knight wrote:

I dont mind the on comming traffic giving me a bit of stick

and

Black Knight wrote:

Countless times ive passed out cars only to find they are tailgating another car, ive nowhere to pull in, and either have to force my way (if oncomming traffic makes me) or continue passing out longer then I want!

His hazard perception is so poor that he doesn't see the harm in moving out into the path of oncoming traffic to overtake. His observation is so poor that he can't recognise that cars are too close together for him to fit in between before he starts his manouver and his arrogance is so high that he perceives oncoming traffic as forcing him to do something he shouldn't have to, maybe he believes that the oncoming traffic should pull into the hard shoulder to let him by and to top it all off, he believes it was the other drivers fault.

Marcus.Aurelius

alias no.9 wrote: »

His hazard perception is so poor that he doesn't see the harm in moving out into the path of oncoming traffic to overtake. His observation is so poor that he can't recognise that cars are too close together for him to fit in between before he starts his manouver and his arrogance is so high that he perceives oncoming traffic as forcing him to do something he shouldn't have to, maybe he believes that the oncoming traffic should pull into the hard shoulder to let him by and to top it all off, he believes it was the other drivers fault.

Judgment is key here, he is not happy about having to force oncoming traffic into any situation. Other drivers should be forced to let him in, they have no right to drive on each other's bumpers with no intention of overtaking.

I've seen the looks of shame on some driver's faces when you force them back so you can squeeze in, and I've heard countless times from guards and other advanced drivers that this is the only way of teaching the morons how to drive with some courtesy.

At the same time, if the road cannot accommodate your manoever, even when cut short, you shouldn't make the attempt in the first place. I'm forced into the squeezing in part very rarely, usually because the oncoming driver is bombing along.

WHITE_P

Cyrus wrote: »

what gets my goat is people who overtake a car travelling at say 95kmph and proceed to overtake at 100kmph

taking bloody ages and turning a safe maneouver into a dangerous one

get in and out people!

Well said, the least amount of time spent on the other side of the road, the safer it is for all concerned.

alias no.9

Marcus.Aurelius wrote: »

Judgment is key here, he is not happy about having to force oncoming traffic into any situation. Other drivers should be forced to let him in, they have no right to drive on each other's bumpers with no intention of overtaking.

I've seen the looks of shame on some driver's faces when you force them back so you can squeeze in, and I've heard countless times from guards and other advanced drivers that this is the only way of teaching the morons how to drive with some courtesy.

At the same time, if the road cannot accommodate your manoever, even when cut short, you shouldn't make the attempt in the first place. I'm forced into the squeezing in part very rarely, usually because the oncoming driver is bombing along.

Judgement is indeed the key, if there isn't room to pull in between cars, you shouldn't start the overtaking manouver. It doesn't matter how wrong the tailgater is, and trust me it's a pet peave of mine too, two wrongs do not make a right and even if they did there's no consolation in being right but mangled in a wreck.
As for being forced to pull in because an oncoming driver is bombing along, I think there's a little bit of an irony in that statement.

Saruman

Agreed.. even though its illegal to exceed the speed limit when overtaking, to be honest i will gladly break that law as it makes no sense and is far safer to do so quickly rather than stick to 100kph and risk someone flying in down the road in the other direction meeting up with you.

lightening

alias no.9 wrote: »

The ones near the front of the queue will check their mirrors and not recognise your intention to overtake because their view is compromised by the cars in between.

If they can't recognise the intention of a car overtaking them they shouldn't be on the road.

alias no.9 wrote: »

assume they're about to overtake but you see a huge stretch clear ahead and move out anyway assuming you'll both be able to make it. Suddenly they brake and begin to make a right turn into a gatewa

Assumption is the mother of all screw ups

You never start an overtaking maneuver until the person overtaking in front of you has completed their one. This is simple learner rules of the road stuff. Both drivers you know need to re-sit their test if the started overtaking behind a car they 'assumed was overtaking"

Marcus.Aurelius

Saruman wrote: »

Agreed.. even though its illegal to exceed the speed limit when overtaking, to be honest i will gladly break that law as it makes no sense and is far safer to do so quickly rather than stick to 100kph and risk someone flying in down the road in the other direction meeting up with you.

+1 Any garda who did the advanced course knows that its best to overtake at maximum acceleration, move crisply and smoothly and minimise your time accross the white line. Move out early and move back in as soon as safe to do so. And none of this 20 feet to the right of the car you're overtaking, such a swing out and in is dangerous.

alias no.9

lightening wrote: »

If they can't recognise the intention of a car overtaking them they shouldn't be on the road.

Sure once the car begins to move out any driver should be able to recognise what a car, several cars back in the queue is doing, but just before that happens, it's not always possible for them to see an indicator 4 cars back because of the cars in between.

lightening wrote: »

Assumption is the mother of all screw ups

You never start an overtaking maneuver until the person overtaking in front of you has completed their one. This is simple learner rules of the road stuff. Both drivers you know need to re-sit their test if the started overtaking behind a car they 'assumed was overtaking"

Likewise you never start an overtaking manouver without room to get back onto your own side of the road safely and and safely does not include having to bully or force your way back onto your own side of the road. Tailgaters are pricks but are also clearly visible before commencing an overtaking manouver.

lightening

alias no.9 wrote: »

Sure once the car begins to move out any driver should be able to recognise what a car, several cars back in the queue is doing, but just before that happens, it's not always possible for them to see an indicator 4 cars back because of the cars in between.

Simple, mirror, signal maneuver. Works every time. Either your mirrors are not set right or you are checking and then leaving it to long to maneuver.

alias no.9 wrote: »

Likewise you never start an overtaking manouver without room to get back onto your own side of the road safely and and safely does not include having to bully or force your way back onto your own side of the road. Tailgaters are pricks but are also clearly visible before commencing an overtaking manouver.

You shouldn't have to "bully or force" your way back in to anything. You simply make sure you have enough room to overtake full stop.

WHITE_P

Spatial awareness seems to be a big problem here, wheather it is the car overtaking, the one being overtaken, or oncoming traffic.

As for people being overtaken, I read a report carried out by some german institute years ago that stated people actually showed destinct signs of hatred towards other motorists who overtook them, all be it only monmentary.

I usually let any one behind me pass, if they make their intention clear, either by their position on the road or preferably using their indicator. However I do dislike having some muppet 6 inches off my rear right hand corner when I'm travelling along at or above the speed limit.

As for oncoming traffic I can't see why they have to get all shirty about an oncoming car overtaking if there is a perfectly usable hardshoulder they could move on to safely, again this comes back to their awareness of the road ahead.

I have often moved onto the hardshoulder if I'm the only car travelling in my direction and I see cars on the opposite side of the road stuck behind a slow moving vehicle. Before anyone comes along and tells me it is illegal to drive on the hardshoulder I know.

alias no.9

lightening wrote: »

Simple, mirror, signal maneuver. Works every time. Either your mirrors are not set right or you are checking and then leaving it to long to maneuver.

I've no problem with my mirrors and I was thought and always practice mirror, signal, mirror, manouver. In the situatiuon where there is a queue of traffic and a car from well back the queue decides to overtake at the same time as one near the front, the intentions of the car further back are not always clear to the one further forward until they move out. That is what makes overtaking lines of traffic unsafe.

Saruman

To be honest, i have no problem when i am overtaken. I am usually either doing the limit or a little over it if its safe. For instance when on the Old N4 i will typically drive at 100kph as this is a perfectly safe speed on most of it and it was perfectly safe to drive at that speed before it was demoted when the toll road opened.

I am technically breaking the law so if someone comes up behind me and wants to get past i will move over and let them. At the very least, if there is a speed check ahead it will be them caught and not me

lightening

alias no.9 wrote: »

In the situatiuon where there is a queue of traffic and a car from well back the queue decides to overtake at the same time as one near the front, the intentions of the car further back are not always clear to the one further forward until they move out. That is what makes overtaking lines of traffic unsafe.

No, your wrong I'm afraid. There are rules to be followed. If a car further up the line indicates and starts overtaking at the same time as you, you abort the attempt to overtake until is safe to do so.

I think you are mistaking a driver overtaking a line of slow driving traffic to a driver leap frogging his/her way through a long line of backed, traveling traffic.

Overtaking a number of slow cars in the right conditions is perfectly safe and legal.

Zube

Marcus.Aurelius wrote: »

I do find that a lot people bumper hug and don't leave room for another car, and sometimes you have to bully them to move in between them, unfortunate, but they are in the wrong for not following ROTR.

I'm speechless.

Marcus.Aurelius

Zube wrote: »

I'm speechless.

Glad you approve! :D:D:D

TheBazman

Am I missing something here? - there has been a lot of people taking the high horse stance of ..100mtrs is not enough - drive properly and you wont get flashed. What we are talking about here is two cars moving in the same direction with the overtaking car obviously moving faster. 100 metres seems like a lot to me. Picture it - you are driving along on a single carriageway and get overtaken by a faster moving car which then proceeds to get at least 100 metres ahead of you before indicating and pulling back in. Is that not in itself dangerous. Surely the overtaking/faster moving car only has to ensure that he/she is sufficiently ahead of the car, examine the mirrors and move back in. Job done. I cant see how the gap can mysteriously close to a dangerous level given that the overtaking car is moving faster.

Pete67

He was talking about getting within 100m of a car coming in the oppposite direction!!!

Zube

It would never really occur to me to flash at another driver, even if I thought they were driving like a complete Roman Emperor. What's supposed to be the point? Some lunatic is overtaking on solid lines, bullying his way into queued traffic, intimidating oncoming traffic into the shoulder, and when I flash him, what? He's suddenly going to cop on?

No, I drive my car (fast, but defensively), and let the Caesars go and have accidents far, far away...

stovelid

Black_Knight wrote: »

Countless times ive passed out cars only to find they are tailgating another car, ive nowhere to pull in, and either have to force my way (if oncomming traffic makes me) or continue passing out longer then I want!

Er, how about seeing if you have room to pull in before starting the overtaking manoeuvre?

If you can't see, don't overtake. Simple.

Black_Knight

alias no.9 wrote: »

His hazard perception is so poor that he doesn't see the harm in moving out into the path of oncoming traffic to overtake. His observation is so poor that he can't recognise that cars are too close together for him to fit in between before he starts his manouver and his arrogance is so high that he perceives oncoming traffic as forcing him to do something he shouldn't have to, maybe he believes that the oncoming traffic should pull into the hard shoulder to let him by and to top it all off, he believes it was the other drivers fault.

I never said i make traffic move to the hard shoulder, and it has never happened to me.
But! If while in the process of passing someone out I see cars in the distance, im not going to continue on my way on the wrong side of the road! I try to pull in after ive passed the car beside me, but being the lack of room they leave, ive to hang about on the wrong side of the road while that car blocks me off. They generally give way, but then the flash.

Does he thing ill consider his feelings and stay on the wrong side of the road so I dont upset him?

Black_Knight

stovelid wrote: »

Er, how about seeing if you have room to pull in before starting the overtaking manoeuvre?

If you can't see, don't overtake. Simple.

Er, How about not going bumper to bumper.

jackhammer

WHITE_P wrote: »

As for oncoming traffic I can't see why they have to get all shirty about an oncoming car overtaking if there is a perfectly usable hardshoulder they could move on to safely, again this comes back to their awareness of the road ahead.

Maybe I mis-read this. Are you saying that you can't see why a driver, travelling in the oncoming direction, is getting shirty because he/she is being forced to take evasive action to avoid a head-on collision?

TheBazman

Pete67 wrote: »

He was talking about getting within 100m of a car coming in the oppposite direction!!!

aaahhh - my bad