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Raif Severance

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Is this the general consensus on Tower Lord?
Is it a case of runaway expectations after Blood Song or is the book such a bit tame after the astounding debut?

Yup.

I think it's still a Good Book, but not as Fleshed Out as you'd wanted it to be.

And I agree, the Multiple Perspective did Dilute it.

In Terms of other Authors' Sophomore Books, I think Tower Lord fell short of Crimson Campaign and Fell Sword for me.

Dades

I'm a good bit into it and missing the completely linear narrative of the first book. It was what made it such a page turner.

It's fine, but what has happened so far could easily have been compressed into a third of the pages.

RoboAmish

Finally finished the Wheel of Time there the other night. Only took me about 10 years. But huzzah, this is clearly my greatest achievement! Gah, I need a life...

Started Prince of Thorns now after having it on my shelf about a year while I slew my white whale. Enjoying it, a quick easy read, even if I'm a little tired of the grimdark tone all fantasy is going for in the wake of ASOIAF. Then again, considering some of the dredge fantasy was producing when they all wanted to be LOTR/WOT ripoffs, I guess it could be worse...

It's a little thinly drawn though. Maybe I need to get the over descriptiveness of the Wheel of Time out of my head. But it does seem a bit rough round the edges and rushed. Are the other two better? I mean, I'm liking it and all, but considering the amount of recommendations I've gotten regarding it, it's not quite the mindblowing experience I was expecting...

Sulla Felix

RoboAmish wrote: »

Enjoying it, a quick easy read, even if I'm a little tired of the grimdark tone all fantasy is going for in the wake of ASOIAF.

Happens naturally enough, usually a genre slowburns and then a decade in a couple of works broadens the appeal and the meme snowballs. The work for Martin was laid in the 80s. You see the same thing in music. Indy stuff was around a long time before it hit the mainstream, same with edm now etc.

Edit: Forgot to put in what I actually came to write! Just finished Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson. While I liked it well enough, it's not a patch on Crytonomicon, Diamond Age or Anathem and tbh if I'd read it first it might well have turned me off him altogether.

keane2097

Finding Wool excellent so far.

Valaquenta

RoboAmish wrote: »

Finally finished the Wheel of Time there the other night. Only took me about 10 years. But huzzah, this is clearly my greatest achievement! Gah, I need a life...

My aim is to get through as many books as possible before undertaking this task. I dread to think how long it'll take!! Was it worth it?

wyrn

Valaquenta wrote: »

My aim is to get through as many books as possible before undertaking this task. I dread to think how long it'll take!! Was it worth it?

I did it the summer before last (before the final book was released). I read at least one a week, sometimes two. I think I went about it the wrong way, I should have broken it up with other books in between.

Valaquenta

wyrn wrote: »

I did it the summer before last (before the final book was released). I read at least one a week, sometimes two. I think I went about it the wrong way, I should have broken it up with other books in between.

Going through a book per week is some going!! When I get around to it, I might break it up with a couple of autobiographies or something, just so I don't get utterly lost in the whole thing.

TwoShedsJackson

Now on 'Brilliance' by Marcus Sakey (part 1 of 'The Brilliance Saga' apparently). Decent summer read, sci fi/crime thriller, nothing wildly original or unpredictable but a good start.

Bits_n_Bobs

Just finished Crux by Ramez Naam which is the second part of Nexus. I will say I found the beginning of Nexus (the first book) to be a bit of a slog however well worth persevering with and it definitely picks up pace.

The plot of Crux is pretty stellar and it's pacing fairly zips along however the writing is kind of mediocre and the characterisation pretty one dimensional. Either way - I belted through it, great page turner and have zero problem recommending it.

Curerntly re-reading Saturns Children by Charles Stross which I thoroughly enjoyed first time round - an absolute treat - in preparation for the second of this series Neptunes Brood, which is already loaded on my kindle! I'm classifying this as a good book month

Thargor

Tower Lord is good enough I reckon after reading 30% of it, at least we're finding out what happens after Blood Song, it does feel like there is something slightly missing compared to the first book but maybe that's just the jump to the multiple narratives. Definitely a must-read if you liked Blood Song anyway.

5live

Thargor wrote: »

Tower Lord is good enough I reckon after reading 30% of it, at least we're finding out what happens after Blood Song, it does feel like there is something slightly missing compared to the first book but maybe that's just the jump to the multiple narratives. Definitely a must-read if you liked Blood Song anyway.

I agree. 36% in and reading a chapter a day so i don't really mind the storyline jumping between the two charachters.

Its different from Blood Song though because i don't feel the need to just read the next chapter and find that its 3am all of a sudden.

But its a good book so far, for me anyway.

Dan_Solo

Still reading The Great North Road... man am I so checking the page count more carefully the next time I pick a book! So much detail about so much nothing!
Getting pretty tired of the

spraying smartdust around the place like confetti and Angela better turn out to be the alien's lover or something!

Thargor

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Still reading The Great North Road... man am I so checking the page count more carefully the next time I pick a book! So much detail about so much nothing!
Getting pretty tired of the

spraying smartdust around the place like confetti and Angela better turn out to be the alien's lover or something!

He's one of my favourite authors but something went badly wrong with that book, it could have been a third of the size easily, the criminal investigation and the slog through the jungle were just painful to read...

mcgovern

Finished Downbelow Station by CJ Cherryh which I didn't really like.
Also read Toll The Hounds, which was good, but tough going as usual!
Now about 25% through Tower Lord, quite enjoying it so far.

Paddy Samurai

About 170 pages in and liking it big time.I just ordered part 2.
Has anyone else read this ?.

Manach

Paddy Samurai wrote: »

About 170 pages in and liking it big time.I just ordered part 2.
Has anyone else read this ?.

Malice++. Has a nice Gemmell-like tone and writing style.

Currently on Islands of Rage and Hope (Black Tide Rising Book 3) by John Ringo.
Guns, Zombies, Sailors and a heavy metal soundtrack.

RoboAmish

Valaquenta wrote: »

My aim is to get through as many books as possible before undertaking this task. I dread to think how long it'll take!! Was it worth it?

Heh, ask me an easy one why don't you?:D

It's a tricky one. I would say that it was probably worth it, yes. It starts well and ends well. But the middle is genuinely dredge, there's an unmerciful amount of nonsense and filler to sift through from about book five onwards. Jordan's writing style can be a little cumbersome too, and the less said about the gender politics the better.:o Think his world building is rather poor too, especially in comparison to people like Martin or especially Erikson.

I'm being harsh on it, but it is something I would be slow to recommend without mentioning its many flaws. It was a slog to get through most of the time, but I liked the majority of the characters well enough to keep going. So yes, worth it... with many caveats.

Valaquenta

RoboAmish wrote: »

Heh, ask me an easy one why don't you?:D

It's a tricky one. I would say that it was probably worth it, yes. It starts well and ends well. But the middle is genuinely dredge, there's an unmerciful amount of nonsense and filler to sift through from about book five onwards. Jordan's writing style can be a little cumbersome too, and the less said about the gender politics the better.:o Think his world building is rather poor too, especially in comparison to people like Martin or especially Erikson.

I'm being harsh on it, but it is something I would be slow to recommend without mentioning its many flaws. It was a slog to get through most of the time, but I liked the majority of the characters well enough to keep going. So yes, worth it... with many caveats.

Everything you've highlighted are the reasons I ask. Seems the majority would be very much in agreement with you haha. Maybe I'll put it with Ulysses and just wait til I retire . Too many other books have been recommended over the last few years that I really want to get to.

OwaynOTT

It's worth a read. It's gets knocked as it's a finished series so we can see it's flaws, other unfinished series are all ready showing signs of bloat and other problems that affected Jordan in his later stages.
Lynch's Bastard series has stalled a bit after only 3 books.
Rothfuss' second book was a big let down.
GRRM hit the wall a bit with his last two books and the increasing gals between books dont help.
Peter V Brett lost his touch after only the first book.
Abercrombie was smart and stuck to the trilogy but the standalones set in his world weren't up to the standard of the trilogy.

Mark Lawernce looks to be doing very well but I haven't finished the first trilogy yet.

Jordan was limited in some ways but there is a lot that's good about the series. The main guy Rand can be a bit emo at times but has an interesting arc, there is some great stuff I there in terms of action and some nice themes but some attempts at humor eventually tend to grate due to repetition and the focus on side characters can frustrate.
They can be ignored or even skipped.
Jordan is the middleman between Brooks, Feist and early Tad Williams to GRRM, Abercrombie et al.

WoT is not the best fantasy when you take it as a whole bit there's a lot in there that's as good as if not better than a lot of fantasy and at times can't be matched.

The end of Winters Heart, the showdown in lord of Chaos involving Taim and the battle at Rhuidean are all too notch.

keane2097

The action scenes in WoT are mind blowing in places but the characters are dross - one dimensional, irrational most of the time and annoying beyond belief.

keane2097

Also, finished Wool - cracking good yarn particularly the first half, was a bit predictable in the latter stages and could have gone in more interesting directions but well worth a read.

Reading Titus Groan now which tbh I don't know anything about, whether it's any good or whether it's even fantasy but so far it's weird and intriguing which is a decent baseline!

InReality

Reading the black company.

RoboAmish

OwaynOTT wrote: »

The end of Winters Heart, the showdown in lord of Chaos involving Taim and the battle at Rhuidean are all too notch.

I agree with this (and the rest of your post) for the most part, it's just that you have to get through an unbelievable amount of dross to get to these highlights. Jordan's climaxes (the books that have proper ones!) are very good, but I think how he gets there is the problem. I think he's poor at buildup... it's just hundreds of pages of meandering, pointless sub plots and then, bam, climax. Winter's Heart and Lord of Chaos are proof of this and are poor books when taken in their entirety, in my opinion, but their reputation is inflated just because of their climaxes. Lord of Chaos being the prime example... great climax, but probably the most overrated book in the series, for me at least.

Actually, that's probably another reason why The Gathering Storm is the best in the series; the climax feels earned and natural. I think the entire buildup for the climax for A Crown of Swords works quite well too, and it's a decent climax to boot. I'm never quite sure why some people seem to signify that as the start of the slide into mediocrity for the series, as I much prefered it to FOH and LOC and thought it stalled the slide, if only temporarily.

Heh, it's amazing what diverging opinions people can have with this series sometimes.:)

Thargor

InReality wrote: »

Reading the black company.

Great books,

love The Limper and the rest, should have written a few books about them on their own...

ixoy

Thargor wrote: »

Let us know how you get on with that please as I have that series on my pile.

I very much enjoyed it. Original idea to mix dystopic sci-fi with grimdark fantasy (and especially given it was written in 1997 long before the likes of Abercrombie et al). Believable hero, solid premise and good action sequences. More than enough to make me get the next one.

Moved on from that to "The Air War" by Adrian Tchaikosfky. It's the eight book in his "Shadows of the Apt" series and the first book in its internal final arc. Only 6% in so early yet but I've always enjoyed the series and no reason yet to suspect I won't like this one, especially as plot lines are beginning to converge.

OwaynOTT

RoboAmish wrote: »

I agree with this (and the rest of your post) for the most part, it's just that you have to get through an unbelievable amount of dross to get to these highlights. Jordan's climaxes (the books that have proper ones!) are very good, but I think how he gets there is the problem. I think he's poor at buildup... it's just hundreds of pages of meandering, pointless sub plots and then, bam, climax. Winter's Heart and Lord of Chaos are proof of this and are poor books when taken in their entirety, in my opinion, but their reputation is inflated just because of their climaxes. Lord of Chaos being the prime example... great climax, but probably the most overrated book in the series, for me at least.

Actually, that's probably another reason why The Gathering Storm is the best in the series; the climax feels earned and natural. I think the entire buildup for the climax for A Crown of Swords works quite well too, and it's a decent climax to boot. I'm never quite sure why some people seem to signify that as the start of the slide into mediocrity for the series, as I much prefered it to FOH and LOC and thought it stalled the slide, if only temporarily.

Heh, it's amazing what diverging opinions people can have with this series sometimes.:)

Gathering Storm is quite different from the rest of the series really, as its focuses on Rand and Egwene for the most part and only deviates to the others sparingly. Sanderson started with bang but went downhill from there.

I would really argue about Jordan being poor and build-ups. Sure there is some pointless sub-plots but they really don't take up as much space as people would let you believe and it's really only Aes Sedai politiking that really grates. That's the major flaw in the series, most of the Aes Sedai sub plots amount to sweet fu*k all in the end.
But Lord of Chaos has Rand being captured, which was not a pointless subplot. There's definitely more good than bad in that book and I'm not sure it's held up as a overly positive example of the series, if anything most people identify it as where most of the series problems started.

The main issues with the series in my view are:

1 - pointless Aes Sedai subplots
2 - Perrin's going into traction when Faile got kidnapped - went nowhere for books.
3 - Not releasing Path of Daggers and Crown of Swords as one book as he intended but gave into publisher pressure and fan pressure with their demands for a new book quicker. If only he followed GRRM's example a bit there.
4- Crossroads - woeful decision but it's faults were highlighted due to the wait for it, its not so bad when reading the series in one go
5- his take on woman at times lets him down but he saw that fantasy was so male dominated and he tried to tackle that.
6- general bloat
7 - afraid to leave out characters for a book - left out Mat for one and the fan backlash was considerable.

I think issue 3 caused a lot of problems, its the keystone issue as some of the others wouldn't exist without it. Books 7-10 are seen as the series low point but if he had of just released books 7 and 8 together he could have saved this. This would of also meant that the Faile thing got resolved a lot quicker or at least taken up less space.

Thargor

Im kind of trudging to the end of Tower Lord now, the magic that was in Blood Song is definitely missing, now its just a bland world full of cliches and tropes like any other generic fantasy, pity.

OwaynOTT

Thargor wrote: »

Im kind of trudging to the end of Tower Lord now, the magic that was in Blood Song is definitely missing, now its just a bland world full of cliches and tropes like any other generic fantasy, pity.

Is the magic gone because we haven't discovered this indie author like with Blood Song. The cliches and tropes were just as common in Blood Song.

shrapnel222

just finished ready player one by ernest cline. long time since i'd devoured a book so quickly. great read. it also helps that i knew most of the games/music/films he was talking about so was a great trip down memory lane.