Group Riding

Raam

as nicked from here...
http://www.roadbikerider.com/currentissue.htm

Group Therapy

"I love doing group rides by myself," groans my buddy Rich at the coffee shop after getting dropped on another Saturday ride.

Rich is a stronger cyclist than me, but I didn't get flicked. Why? Rich lacks a keen sense of strategy and pack savvy. Translation: He's not ruthless, sneaky and shameless. I am.

As retired Euro pro Hennie Kuiper says, it's all about "licking your opponent's plate clean before starting on your own." In other words, do as little work as possible while getting others to do as much as possible. Here's how:

For starters, never take a pull. Pulls are for 23-year-old "college students" who ride 450 miles a week. They need the extra work to get ready for that upcoming stage race. Middle-aged working stiffs don't. We pull, we die.

Next, never close a gap. Gaps will appear and must be filled pronto. Just not by you. Glue yourself to the wheel of some antsy, ambitious soul. Offer plenty of encouragement: "They're getting away. Go! You can do it! Great job." Chump.

Sometimes nobody wants to jump across. Be patient. Glare over your shoulder as if you've been pulling for 15 miles and it's time for all the stinkin' wheelsuckers to step up. Somebody will blink. Then it's all aboard the free-ride express.

Finally, hills. Before the road tilts up, scope out some strong, beefy riders who are good bike handlers. They tend to be steady if unspectacular climbers. More important, they descend like an anvil off a cliff. Hang on, limpet-like, while they tow you back to the 97-pound mountain goats off the front.

Congratulations. You've made it back with the bunch. We're not even at the coffee shop yet, but you've already licked the plates clean.

Gavin

I'm not a roadie (IANAR).

The person cycling in front, the puller. Is it more effort when there is someone behind, suckin on their wind ?

Some chap sat immediately on my wheel for around 5km on my commute home the other day. It was a bit annoying as I purposely slowed down several times for him to overtake, but he never did. Then when I peeled off for my turn and he came alongside, I looked over to say hello, but no acknowledgment.

I got mad, but was he actually exhausting my energy, sapping my suction, partaking of my puff, etc etc ?

Chips Lovell

Verb wrote: »

I got mad, but was he actually exhausting my energy, sapping my suction, partaking of my puff, etc etc ?

No. Just makes it easier for him. No different for you. How fast were you going?

DirkVoodoo

Yeah, all that you need to worry about is the larger pressure building up in front of you. What happens behind you doesn't really affect your speed/effort.

Raam

I've read that having someone behind you is actually a small help to you. Something to do with the drag of the air as it flows behind you. Instead of dragging you back, it is deflected away from you by the rider behind.
How true is it? I dunno.

All I know is I had a free-loader on the other side of the Wicklow gap on Sunday. I was starting to cramp from the efforts of the climb, so I signaled for him to come through. He shouted "I can't" and fell back.

irishmotorist

I do find it annoying also - I'm on a hybrid and fairly upright so I'm a nice target. I do feel though, that if the wind swirls around to be behind you, then he's probably taking that and you're not getting the benefit that you might otherwise get from occasional tailwinds.

Gavin

el tonto wrote: »

No. Just makes it easier for him. No different for you. How fast were you going?

That's the thing. I was not going fast at all. I was huffing and puffing up a long slope. I just got annoyed that he was sitting on my wheel for so long, he was probably getting no advantage out of it at all.

Chips Lovell

Verb wrote: »

That's the thing. I was not going fast at all. I was huffing and puffing up a long slope. I just got annoyed that he was sitting on my wheel for so long, he was probably getting no advantage out of it at all.

In that case he probably wasn't getting much of a draft at all then.

seamus

I'm guilty of this on my way home sometimes. Some guy pedals like a mofo and I hold back, cruising gleefully behind him.

I only do it really though where I know the guy is quick enough that I'd be in his way if I overtook.

Chris Peak

Raam wrote: »

I've read that having someone behind you is actually a small help to you. Something to do with the drag of the air as it flows behind you. Instead of dragging you back, it is deflected away from you by the rider behind.
How true is it? I dunno.

I read something like that a few years ago. I think if there’s a large group of riders, the 7th or 8th one gets sucked along.
I’ll go rooting in the attic later for the (old) magazine.
Sad, I know…

Vélo

Group Riding

My advice is wear a condom:D:D:D:D;)

DirkVoodoo

I'd say they would have to be very tight to you to form a continuous stream.

manic56

el tonto wrote: »

In that case he probably wasn't getting much of a draft at all then.

maybe he was a batty

Diarmuid

A friend and myself were out last weekend, and on our way home we were taking turns pulling along and passed a guy who was sitting up for food. Two minutes later he passes us and tells us to take his wheel. He then proceeded to pull us the rest of the way home (15km) doing all the work. Nothing crazy but at about 36-37kph. The funny thing was that he wasn't even on the hoods, just sitting up not even breaking a sweat. Could have been an ex-pro as there are lots of them around here. It made that last 15km a lot easier.

Then just about 2 km from home a moped passes us and yer man sprints to grab onto the wheel of the moped, I'm guessing doing about 50. That was the end of our free spin

I must say I don't really care when someone grabs my wheel when I am out for a spin.

Hungrycol

I don't mind when someone grabs my wheel when I'm commuting. It makes me want to drop him, therefore making me push myself harder and becomming a better/stronger cyclist

Raam

Diarmuid wrote: »

A friend and myself were out last weekend, and on our way home we were taking turns pulling along and passed a guy who was sitting up for food. Two minutes later he passes us and tells us to take his wheel. He then proceeded to pull us the rest of the way home (15km) doing all the work. Nothing crazy but at about 36-37kph. The funny thing was that he wasn't even on the hoods, just sitting up not even breaking a sweat. Could have been an ex-pro as there are lots of them around here. It made that last 15km a lot easier.

Then just about 2 km from home a moped passes us and yer man sprints to grab onto the wheel of the moped, I'm guessing doing about 50. That was the end of our free spin

Sounds like a beast! Every now and then I meet Cathal Miller [1] [2] on the way home.
I was pushing hard one day into the wind (it always seems to be windy on the coast) and all of a sudden he appears to my right telling me that he has been sitting on my wheel for the last 5 minutes sheltering and proceeds to tow me all the way home! A sound man.

cantalach

Raam wrote: »

All I know is I had a free-loader on the other side of the Wicklow gap on Sunday. I was starting to cramp from the efforts of the climb, so I signaled for him to come through. He shouted "I can't" and fell back.

Hey Raam, were you wearing the all-white FdJeux full kit, or swapping turns with somebody who was? I crested the Wicklow Gap just behind a pair of guys matching that description. If it was you, I genuinely couldn't take a pull for one very simple reason: I had a compact on the front and a 12-25 on the back and was completely out of gears! I tried pedalling a couple of times but my legs simply wouldn't spin fast enough on what was a fairly fast descent. All I could do was get aero and use my 87kg to free wheel in the draft! As soon as I realised the pair on the front were getting ratty about it I backed off. I don't think I said anything though, so it may have been somebody else.

Wheel-sucking is not something I would be owning up to if my excuse wasn't 100% true! The incident actually made me reconsider the whole compact thing...for a few hours. My faith was firmly re-established by Slieve Maan.

Raam

cantalach wrote: »

Hey Raam, were you wearing the all-white FdJeux full kit, or swapping turns with somebody who was? I crested the Wicklow Gap just behind a pair of guys matching that description. If it was you, I genuinely couldn't take a pull for one very simple reason: I had a compact on the front and a 12-25 on the back and was completely out of gears! I tried pedalling a couple of times but my legs simply wouldn't spin fast enough on what was a fairly fast descent. All I could do was get aero and use my 87kg to free wheel in the draft! As soon as I realised the pair on the front were getting ratty about it I backed off. I don't think I said anything though, so it may have been somebody else.

Wheel-sucking is not something I would be owning up to if my excuse wasn't 100% true! The incident actually made me reconsider the whole compact thing...for a few hours. My faith was firmly re-established by Slieve Maan.

Hi Cantalach,
I had a white FDJ jersey but with the blue shorts and my mate had Orwell kit. I never said anything to whoever was behind, just gave 'em the ol' "come on up" signal The cramp made me do it, 'onest guv'ner

TinyExplosions

Raam wrote: »

Hi Cantalach,
I had a white FDJ jersey but with the blue shorts and my mate had Orwell kit. I never said anything to whoever was behind, just gave 'em the ol' "come on up" signal The cramp made me do it, 'onest guv'ner

A likely story... I've seen you on a bike Raam, and you don't strike me as the cramping type -there's nowt there to cramp up

cantalach

Raam wrote: »

Hi Cantalach,
I had a white FDJ jersey but with the blue shorts and my mate had Orwell kit. I never said anything to whoever was behind, just gave 'em the ol' "come on up" signal The cramp made me do it, 'onest guv'ner

That was definitely you then, because I remember the other guy having a Dublin-based club jersey. And yeah, the FdJeux shorts are blue this year - I'm just remembering the all-white affair they had before. As you say, you just coolly flicked the index finger in the international sign language gesture for "do a turn you lazy git!" I would have done the same if I were you!

Raam

cantalach wrote: »

That was definitely you then, because I remember the other guy having a Dublin-based club jersey. And yeah, the FdJeux shorts are blue this year - I'm just remembering the all-white affair they had before. As you say, you just coolly flicked the index finger in the international sign language gesture for "do a turn you lazy git!" I would have done the same if I were you!

Oh-er, this is a bit embarrassing now

cantalach

He stuck his index finger out to the side and flicked it. That's perfectly acceptable bike etiquette when you suspect there's a freeloader on your wheel, especially on a 200 km day out. Hey I was the one he did it to and I didn't take offence! You might want to check out this before you get yourself in trouble some day.

Raam

Thanks for clarifying Cantalach

rogerb

Raam wrote: »

as nicked from here...
http://www.roadbikerider.com/currentissue.htm

This is quite amusing on the subject too: http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/2008/04/sitting-in-and-bowing-out-art-of.html

Why is this obvious advice so hard to follow? After a few minutes watching someone labouring at the front I actually start to feel guilty. And if a gap opens I panic and start chasing. Is there any cure for this?

Chips Lovell

rogerb wrote: »

Why is this obvious advice so hard to follow? After a few minutes watching someone labouring at the front I actually start to feel guilty. And if a gap opens I panic and start chasing. Is there any cure for this?

Train less, drink more and take up smoking. That way you'll be far too wrecked to even care that someone else is doing all the work.

Raam

rogerb wrote: »

This is quite amusing on the subject too: http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/2008/04/sitting-in-and-bowing-out-art-of.html

Why is this obvious advice so hard to follow? After a few minutes watching someone labouring at the front I actually start to feel guilty. And if a gap opens I panic and start chasing. Is there any cure for this?

Every break has a self-appointed driver who is really mean and constantly shouts stuff like, “Short pulls!” and “Rotate!” and “Pull off into the wind!” and then gets indignant when you say “But I don’t wanna rotate!”

There was quite a few like that on the Tour Of Ireland. I lost count of how many times I was given out to. It was like being back at school.

Chips Lovell

Raam wrote: »

There was quite a few like that on the Tour Of Ireland. I lost count of how many times I was given out to. It was like being back at school.

We're going to yell at you.

Raam

el tonto wrote: »

We're going to yell at you.

I'm glad he wasn't there!

Our Tuesday night ride is fast and furious, and strangely has no egos. It's all the fast guys in the metro-Detroit area. We rotate a double echelon at about 30mph. We sprint at pre-determined points. We regroup. We chit chat. Then we fire it up again. We have sprinters and lead-outs. But again, no egos.

And every week, we get new riders jumping into our line and trying to roll with us. That's fine. Go for it. But you should be prepared to meet a very steep learning curve.
Some fail to realize what we're doing, and when they make mistakes, we yell.

You will get yelled at for the following mistakes:
- If you're on the front, do NOT pull the line through the bumpiest section of pavement. GO AROUND IT! There is no need to trash our wheels and bodies.
- If you're on the front, don't ride on the very edge of the pavement. Give some room for the echelon behind you.
- If you're on the front, you MUST pedal down the hills. Do not coast.
- If the line is hammering and you want out, you must hammer until you are on the front - even if it kills you - and then pull off. Do not pull out of the middle of the line. That's dangerous, and it creates a gap that the rider behind you must cover. You will get yelled at.
- When it's your turn to pull through and take your turn on the front, DO NOT accelerate. That's bad.
- When it's your turn to pull off the front, flick your elbow and move smoothly to the side. Nothing abrupt.

Please do not call us elitist. And don't ask us to 'dumb down' our training ride.

I suppose most of it makes sense, although I'm not sure about having to hammer until you are at the front, just signal you want out.

I got given out to for...

• charging up a hill when in a small group
• charging up a hill when in a large group
• not knowing what to do when going down hill and the road is bumpy. I tried to take a pull at the front and the guy beside me got all grumpy.

At one point I got a hand on my back to keep me away from some other riders front wheel. I think I had drifted a bit, so that was fair enough.