How corrupt are politicians?

Call Me Jimmy

Ok as the debate about lisbon has been raging I've heard a lot of this and let me say that I am as aware as anyone that ye can't trust all politicians etc. but I'm wondering what percentage of your average parliament is corrupt and also in what way. When people say corrupt do they mean in monetary terms only or that they are simply power hungry?

Ideally, I'de like to know if we really should trust democratic parliaments/governments. There are bound to be bad apples but would it not be roughly the same ratio as they appear in the general population?

Are they really so evil, is it fair to assume that they are all in politics for the wrong reasons? Take yer man Dr. O Reilly I think his name is, it seems he got into politics primarily to bring about change in the health service. Would it not be fair to say that the majority of politicians have the best interest of the people at heart?

As you can see these are all questions because I genuinely don't know and would like to get some opinions. Try to keep it calm and level-headed if ye's can, although I doubt that'll happen lol!

Dinner

I'd imagine that very few politicians are corrupt.

It's just the easy answer to scream "< Insert Governing Party Here> are just a bunch of corrupt wasters" when something happens that you don't agree with and is getting a bit old at this stage. I've started to ignore people who feel that have to say that politicians are corrupt in every sentence.

It must be a thankless job really, when things go wrong people expect you to resign and when things go right people pass it off as a global boom.

mikemac

No more corrupt than any other profession.

Other professions with reputations like this as farmers fiddling records, builders insisting on cash, taxi's ripping off tourists and publicans shortchanging
Some people even say that Estate Agents tell lies :eek:

All of these go on but it's only a minority. I belive corrupt politicans are also a minority, it's only a handful.
And if it turns out they are corrupt then it's no worse than any other job in the country

The calibre of the politicans reflects ourselves and if a certain percentage of people are looking for shortcuts then of course the people we elect will do the same.

Giving a percentage amount is impossible, but as I posted it's no worse than any other job

Call Me Jimmy

That's what I'm leaning towards, that it is easiest just to play the "corrupt" and "power-hungry" cards when it suits. The fact that an electorate seems to think they can't trust their representatives to work in their best interests speaks volumes. I'm not sure what it says but it is a huge problem imo.

Call Me Jimmy

In monetary terms, how many corrupt politicans have been caught out? (I know people can say the other's just haven't been caught yet

Also is this distrust based on the likes of Bertie, Haughey, Burke (can't think of the other names)? Roughly how many politicians since Haughey give people reason to think they are all corrupt? How does that compare to the number of different politicians that have been in the dail for example?

EamonnKeane

Arabel wrote: »

I'd imagine that very few politicians are corrupt.

It's just the easy answer to scream "< Insert Governing Party Here> are just a bunch of corrupt wasters" when something happens that you don't agree with and is getting a bit old at this stage. I've started to ignore people who feel that have to say that politicians are corrupt in every sentence.

It must be a thankless job really, when things go wrong people expect you to resign and when things go right people pass it off as a global boom.

Yes, apart from the fat salaries, hefty pensions and a troop of sycophants.

eoin5

While I agree that its probably not more than any profession I believe that any tolerance for corruption in politics has to be 0. We get too attached to our politicians in this country. I dont see much of a problem with turfing out anyone whos been abusing the system, theres plenty of other people to fill their boots no matter how much of a celebrity they have become.

Dinner

EamonnKeane wrote: »

Yes, apart from the fat salaries, hefty pensions and a troop of sycophants.

Thanks for reminding me, I forgot to add begrudgery to the list of things they put up with. Don't forget the holidays too!

Call Me Jimmy

eoin5 wrote: »

While I agree that its probably not more than any profession I believe that any tolerance for corruption in politics has to be 0. We get too attached to our politicians in this country. I dont see much of a problem with turfing out anyone whos been abusing the system, theres plenty of other people to fill their boots no matter how much of a celebrity they have become.

Of course I'm not saying it should be tolerated but maybe that we should not let one corrupt politician cause distrust for a whole parliament of representatives. If someone has been abusing the system they should be out on their ear but the guys sitting near them don't deserve distrust on account of the guilty, no?

gordon_gekko

EamonnKeane wrote: »

Yes, apart from the fat salaries, hefty pensions and a troop of sycophants.

you could use those details to describe any public servant

jmayo

Arabel wrote: »

Thanks for reminding me, I forgot to add begrudgery to the list of things they put up with. Don't forget the holidays too!

Bertie is that you because it sure sounds like you ?

Oh yes the government should now take the cra* for screwing up our economy and not just blame it on outside influences, because they sure as hell took the credit for the good times.
Perish the thought they would resign when they cockup and blow millions of taxpayers money on follies or when they are found to have some very shady dealings. (insert Burke, Lawlor, Haughey, Stroke Fahy, Ahern, Lowry)
Why do the offspring of politicans all signup for politics as a career if it is such a thankless task ?

Dinner

jmayo wrote: »

Bertie is that you because it sure sounds like you ?

Oh yes the government should now take the cra* for screwing up our economy and not just blame it on outside influences, because they sure as hell took the credit for the good times.

Why do the offspring of politicans all signup for politics as a career if it is such a thankless task ?

No I'm not Bertie, I don't have his betting ability!


So what your saying there, is that they don't deserve credit for the economic success, but should shoulder the blame for the downturn? Shocker!

I have no idea why some of their kids decide in their daddy's footsteps but it happens quite a lot in life. Trying to work out why kids sometimes do what their parents do is probably more of a sociology question than a political. I'm not quite cynical enough to pass it off as "Dey like de money an' de holliers".

For the record, I'm not alligned with any party. I'm just fed up with constant criticism of politicans.

Fratton Fred

micmclo wrote: »

No more corrupt than any other profession.

Maybe not, but it's not just another profession.

What is corruption as well?

Why do people make political donations, especially companies. it is done to court favour from politicians and benefit them personally. Is this corruption? I think it is but is an accepted practice the world over.

Blackhorse Slim

How Catholic is the Pope?

eoin5

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Of course I'm not saying it should be tolerated but maybe that we should not let one corrupt politician cause distrust for a whole parliament of representatives. If someone has been abusing the system they should be out on their ear but the guys sitting near them don't deserve distrust on account of the guilty, no?

Yep thats the way it should be, but the media portray corruption as big news all the time. Eventually some people are just going to think that theyre all a shower of theives. Theres no need to turn these people into villians, they should just be gone, new people in, world keeps turning. Politics is turning into a reality tv show, with less and less politics.

Liam Byrne

Arabel wrote: »

So what your saying there, is that they don't deserve credit for the economic success, but should shoulder the blame for the downturn? Shocker!

Well, they're trying to claim the exact reverse!!!

I'm just fed up with constant criticism of politicans.

If the parties didn't rally round the corrupt members and claim black is white on their behalf, then we would at least have some level of integrity and say "OK, that guy is corrupt but they shafted him".

But when you've politicians backing party members up, promoting them, or accepting them back into a party, no matter what they do or how spectacularly they fail at their job or waste money, then it's only natural to dismiss the lot of 'em.

Call Me Jimmy

Can I ask ye's this: Do you trust the guy you voted for in the last election? If your first choice didn't win, then your second choice etc.

Tazdedub

Maybe corrupt is the word to use but maybe mistrust.

Some politicians maybe corrupt but what really gets the politicians the bad name is the speaking out of both sides of their mouth at the same time. I think its this that make people not trust politicians especially in this country. How many times have the people been promised one thing and never got it? especially relevant at election time.

biko

An old phrase springs to mind:

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

aidan24326

biko wrote: »

An old phrase springs to mind:

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

There's another one that says power almost always ends up in the hands of the very type of people who shouldn't have it, certainly true of the current US administration.

People don't trust politicians not necessarily becasue they're corrupt, but because they tell lies as a matter of habit. Some of them wouldn't know honesty if bit them on the arse, at this stage if Bertie told you it was sunny outisde you'd grab your umbrella.

Liam Byrne

In fairness, I think it depends on the maturity of the electorate.

We crib about politicians not telling the truth, or when they sit on the fence and have conviction.

BUT we then vote in Bertie ("man of the people", "yes man", "shake-your-hand", "one-of-the-lads") and shaft people with conviction like Michael McDowell.

Now I'm not a blinkered fan of McDowell, and disagreed with him on a good few things, but at least you knew where you stood, rather than with the likes of Bertie who'll agree with you while he's talking to you and then do a complete u-turn later if it suits him better.

aidan24326

Liam Byrne wrote: »

In fairness, I think it depends on the maturity of the electorate.

We crib about politicians not telling the truth, or when they sit on the fence and have conviction.

BUT we then vote in Bertie ("man of the people", "yes man", "shake-your-hand", "one-of-the-lads") and shaft people with conviction like Michael McDowell.

Now I'm not a blinkered fan of McDowell, and disagreed with him on a good few things, but at least you knew where you stood, rather than with the likes of Bertie who'll agree with you while he's talking to you and then do a complete u-turn later if it suits him better.

Which is why democracy is a far from perfect system in itself, becasue you're often asking people to vote on issues they don't even understand. How many voters had more than the vaguest idea of what the Lisbon treaty is about? Probably not very many.

As for what you're saying about Bertie I agree entirely, he is one of these politicians who will basically just say whatever it takes to be popular and offend as few people as possible. Even after a decade in power we still don't know much of what he thinks about anything, he never really took a stance other than on the Northern Ireland issue.

The_Minister

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Take yer man Dr. O Reilly I think his name is, it seems he got into politics primarily to bring about change in the health service. Would it not be fair to say that the majority of politicians have the best interest of the people at heart?

It's James Reilly, not O'Reilly.
He was the President of the Irish Medical Organisation prior to being elected. That body was one of the most dedicated in retarding progress in the health service under Reilly's leadership, and it was only after he reseigned that real progress was made on the consultant's contract. The IMO refused to budge during his tenure, and the reform project in the health service was held up significantly because of it.
I do not believe that that man gives a sniff about the Irish health service.
[/rant]

On corruption, I don't think that most are, but I think that people are human, and people are weak, and there will always be some corrupt people in politics.

Riddle101

Democracy today is a croc of lies in my opinion. We have 26 EU states ratifying the Lisbon Treaty yet none of them held a referedum, what happened to asking the people what they think. I'm pretty sure half the countries if they had asked would have voted no. Then you have America who is supposed to be the huge supporter of Democracy who sometimes ignore Human Right Laws and do some cruel things such as Torture, how is that democratic and then you have the fact that even when the UN opposes going to War, USA overrule them and go in themselves along with the Brits.

Now i reaslise this is about Politicians so i'll say this, Politicians are only drawn by Three things, Power, Money and Security. Power because they want to get into a powerful position where they control the country, money because they're greedy bas***ds and Secruity because they want to ensure that they'll still have money even after the leave office which is why Brian Cowen forcuses more on Money then he dose on the Health Serivice. The world has gone to the dogs people

Boggle

Any politician who knowingly lies to the public in order to get re-elected is corrupt and unfortunately that makes pretty much every one of them corrupt.

(Remember Cowen last year on prime time looking everyone in the eye and saying there was no problem with the economy or the housing market when every dog in the street knew he was lying! - no wonder nobody believed him this time round on lisbon... )

RATM

Boggle wrote: »

Any politician who knowingly lies to the public in order to get re-elected is corrupt and unfortunately that makes pretty much every one of them corrupt.

(Remember Cowen last year on prime time looking everyone in the eye and saying there was no problem with the economy or the housing market when every dog in the street knew he was lying! - no wonder nobody believed him this time round on lisbon... )

+1

The one tragedy about politics is that it is human nature to abuse power and by all accounts a majority of politicians follow human nature. This rule goes in any walk of life.
Its all about degrees of corruption, some will be corrupt to the tune of voting a particular way on county councils because their patrons have a vested interest in the outcome, one that will make them alot of money. Then you have the middle range who let businessmen pay for decorating their houses. Then there's the higher plains where it is obvious to all and sundry that they are highly corrupt to the tune where they've stolen millions from the taxpayers pockets. Yet people still vote for them, probably because they admire their chivalry and think some of it will rub off on themselves....

But one thing is for certain, the more corrupt a society is the more the people will suffer. Plenty of academic studies have found a direct coorelation between Corruption and Poverty. I remember reading not so long ago that Chad ranked in the top 10 countries in the world for corruption and its standing on the poverty scale is very similar as well. Corruption at all levels should be fought against but sadly many people just think 'Sure Id do the same myself if I was in that position' with no regard for the consequences for others.

ninty9er

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Ideally, I'de like to know if we really should trust democratic parliaments/governments. There are bound to be bad apples but would it not be roughly the same ratio as they appear in the general population?

I'd hazard a guess that Ireland as a nation has a massively disproportionate amount of chancers compared to other countries. I'd say the amount of chancers in the Dáil and Seanad is massively underrepresentative of the general population.

Kevster

Hey,

Politicians are only as corrupt as the next person. If you look at any workplace, you will always find corrupt employees. It slightly annoys me when politicians are labelled as being corrupt a lot of the time by people who are themselves corrupt in their own employment. Perhaps some introspection is needed by a lot of people here.

Kevin.

garbanz0

Yep, they are as corrupt as the rest of us. That's the problem. We get the politicians we deserve.

A bunch of corrupt wheeler dealer gombeen men.

They reflect the desires of the population. We all want pin-striped suites, mercs, and power, and think we've got a bit of it by proxy, when we vote in these tossers. The idea that they run 'clinics' is typical. Are they doctors? Are they going to cure our ills.

I don't think so, I think they are the source of the disease.

They haven't a clue, and the referendum result has them scratching their brylcreemed heads in wonder.

At least that is enjoyable to watch.