Break entitlements

LegacyUser

I created the Bad Management thread (that will hopefully be approved).

Just wondering if anyone knows the legal entitlements for break hours? Saw there was a thread similar to that, but asking a different question. The reason I ask is that in my place of work we would regularly be given anything from 10 to 12 hour shifts and only given upwards of 1 hour.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

this page might help you:

http://www.employmentrights.ie/en/informationforemployers/workinghours/

you might need to email them for info on 10-12 shifts and break entitlements

Culchie

So for a 9.00am to 5.30pm shift, what would the break entitlements be?

Nody

Culchie wrote: »

So for a 9.00am to 5.30pm shift, what would the break entitlements be?

From 6.5h to 12h it is 2x 15 min paid and 1x 30 min unpaid lunch by memory. Breaks can not be taken at the end or start of shift to reduce the working hours and have to be spread out over the work period.

ixoy

Nody wrote: »

From 6.5h to 12h it is 2x 15 min paid and 1x 30 min unpaid lunch by memory.

For most industries there's no legal requirement to pay for any breaks.

Angie0912

Actually, companies have to pay employees for their 2 15minute breaks and the first one has to be taken after 4 hours. Employees have to have taken a half and hour break after they have worked 6 hours, but this can include the first 15 minute break.:)

gerrycollins

Culchie wrote: »

So for a 9.00am to 5.30pm shift, what would the break entitlements be?

15 mins paid and 1 hour unpaid. the timing is at your empolyers discretion but a rule of thumb is that your break must fall within a four hour period ie if you start at 9am you must have taken either break by 1pm(not a rule or law just a guide)

Shelflife

Your right to breaks are protected under the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997. After 4.5 hours of work you are entitled to 15 minutes break. If the hours are greater than 6 hours the entitlement is 30 minutes which can include the 15 minute break already referred to. Breaks are not considered ‘working time’ so your employer does not have to pay you for your break.

so in the case of 9 to 5.30 assuming lunch at 1, there would be no break entitlement.

gerrycollins

Shelflife wrote: »

Your right to breaks are protected under the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997. After 4.5 hours of work you are entitled to 15 minutes break. If the hours are greater than 6 hours the entitlement is 30 minutes which can include the 15 minute break already referred to. Breaks are not considered ‘working time’ so your employer does not have to pay you for your break.

so in the case of 9 to 5.30 assuming lunch at 1, there would be no break entitlement.

in grocery retail an eight and half hour shift of which seven and a half were paid ie less lunch would also incur a paid 15 min break

ALFIET

All information pertaining to the Organisation of Working Time Act 1997 which covers hols, breaks, public hols, working weeks, rest periods etc etc is available either through Citizens Information or NERA, National Employment Rights Authority... Note NERA is only an information stop not an advice bureau....

Dave!

Could I ask for some thoughts here?

A few weeks ago I worked the following shift in a shop:

12pm-7pm Sunday

I was on my own from 12-6pm, and one of the others came in then for the final hour.

The shop was fairly busy at times as it was around Christmas, but there may have been intermittent periods where I did not serve a customer for 15 minutes (I don't recall tbh, but it's likely).

Was the employer breaking the law in allowing me work this shift?

As I understand it I'm supposed to get a 15 minute break after 4 1/2 hours, and after 6 hours I'm entitled to a 30 minute break.

I should surely also be able to have a bathroom break, but I would have to leave the store unattended if I did take one, which would presumably be unacceptable to the company

So, simply -- was the employer in the wrong? Or would they be covered because for example, they could argue that I could have taken a break when the other guy came in at 6pm, OR, would the intermittently quiet periods be considered "a break" because I wasn't called upon to serve anybody.

Thanks folks, need to get to the bottom of this.

gerrycollins

Dave! wrote: »

Could I ask for some thoughts here?

A few weeks ago I worked the following shift in a shop:

12pm-7pm Sunday

I was on my own from 12-6pm, and one of the others came in then for the final hour.

The shop was fairly busy at times as it was around Christmas, but there may have been intermittent periods where I did not serve a customer for 15 minutes (I don't recall tbh, but it's likely).

Was the employer breaking the law in allowing me work this shift?

As I understand it I'm supposed to get a 15 minute break after 4 1/2 hours, and after 6 hours I'm entitled to a 30 minute break.

I should surely also be able to have a bathroom break, but I would have to leave the store unattended if I did take one, which would presumably be unacceptable to the company

So, simply -- was the employer in the wrong? Or would they be covered because for example, they could argue that I could have taken a break when the other guy came in at 6pm, OR, would the intermittently quiet periods be considered "a break" because I wasn't called upon to serve anybody.

Thanks folks, need to get to the bottom of this.

firstly you should have been entitled to a break and your break should be at a reasonable time

for 12 to 7 it would have been 1 hour unpaid as you started between 11:30am and 2:30pm, the 30 mins you talk about is when your shift does not include the above hours.

what the employer did was illegal has this happened often?

has a verbal "arrangement" been in place or has either of you ever spoke about it?
are you getting paid so for the full 7 hours?
do you electronically or card punch in?
some system automatically deduct the break assuming you didnt clock for your break.

Dave!

what the employer did was illegal has this happened often?

Yes, I believe someone else worked the same shift last Sunday, and others have said it to the manager before.

has a verbal "arrangement" been in place or has either of you ever spoke about it?

Not with myself anyway, no. Would it, say, be considered a tacit agreement that I saw the roster and did not raise the concern? Or could there be an agreement with the union?

are you getting paid so for the full 7 hours?
Yeah

do you electronically or card punch in?
Yeah, so they should have it logged on their system. I also took a picture of the roster (:)), and one of the other staff members could confirm that they only came in at 6.

some system automatically deduct the break assuming you didnt clock for your break.
Nah we get paid in full


Thanks for the post mate

MysticalSoul

Not even a toilet break :eek:. Been there, done that. I used to work in a call centre, and if there were calls in the queue I would be told to wait. There were times when there were calls in the queue for over an hour. If they had allowed me go to the bathroom I would have been more efficient with the calls, as due to needing to go to the bathroom so badly my aim was just to get the callers off the phone. Bathroom breaks aren't even a human right, but a human necessity.

doolox

Trousers off and commodes in the office then.................
I'd seriously have to go off coffee if I worked there.
I used to remember have to hold onto it in the FAB as gowning down and gowning up were a 10 minute job each way and you'd be missed in the 20 minutes it would take to go to the can.
Working in cleanrooms is not place for one with a weak bladder other excretarial complaint.
Number one or number two in company time it will not do.........

BW8K

Bad Management wrote: »

Just wondering if anyone knows the legal entitlements for break hours? Saw there was a thread similar to that, but asking a different question. The reason I ask is that in my place of work we would regularly be given anything from 10 to 12 hour shifts and only given upwards of 1 hour.

So does anybody know what the break entitlements are for 12 hour shifts. On the employment rights website it states 30 mins for ever 6 hours worked, so for 12 hours, you're only entitled to 1 hour break? Would appreciate if anyone could clarify. Thanks.

Nody

On the top of my head, 1x30 min (unpaid) for lunch and 2x15 min (paid) evenlish spread out (so people can't have a 12h shift and go home after 11h claiming break time).

bobcar61

The place where I work have introduced a new system.
On a Saturday if I was working 9am-6pm I would have gotten 2X15mins break (paid) and 1 hour lunch(unpaid).

Now what my employer has started doing is putting me down for 2 shifts..9am-1pm and then 2pm-6pm so all I'm getting now is the 1 hour off which is classifed as the hour off between two seperate shifts. Are they allowed to this this, it's very annoying and I'd like to get to the bottom of it

Nody

I vaguely recall that there is a minimum time between shifts (2 or 3h) from when I was doing schedules; I can't find any suitable document to back that up though.

bobcar61

I thought the same,wasn't too sure though. I've been looking and looking but with no joys.

Chinup

The Organisation of Working Time Act, 1997 sets out rights of employees in respect of the following:Maximum Weekly Hours of WorkThe maximum average working week is an average of 48 hours averaged over 4, 6, or 12 months (in most cases no more than 4 months).Minimum Rest Times/BreaksYou are entitled to a minimum of:

•

11 consecutive hours rest per 24 hour period

•

one period of 24 hours rest per week, preceded by a daily rest period (11 hours)

•

15 minutes where more than four and a half hours have been worked; 30 minutes where more than six hours have been worked which may include the first break.

•

Shop employees who work more than six hours and whose hours of work include 11.30am - 2.30pm are entitled to a one-hour consecutive break that must occur during those hours.Sunday Work: You are entitled to an extra payment or paid time off in lieu for Sunday work.

Xiney

bobcar61 wrote: »

The place where I work have introduced a new system.
On a Saturday if I was working 9am-6pm I would have gotten 2X15mins break (paid) and 1 hour lunch(unpaid).

Now what my employer has started doing is putting me down for 2 shifts..9am-1pm and then 2pm-6pm so all I'm getting now is the 1 hour off which is classifed as the hour off between two seperate shifts. Are they allowed to this this, it's very annoying and I'd like to get to the bottom of it

They're trying to get around it with a technicality, but I doubt it'd be an accepted one.

Phone NERA, bobcar

bobcar61

Xiney wrote: »

They're trying to get around it with a technicality, but I doubt it'd be an accepted one.

Phone NERA, bobcar

I asked my employer if it was legal and they said it was.Actually they said they don't even have to give us the hour off,we could be working 9-1 and 1-6 as two separate shifts without a break but that certainly couldn't be legal.
Might just give the NERA a call in the morning.

Xiney

frankly, that's bull****. They might be calling them two shifts, but if you're there for a continuous period of time, it's only one shift.

Shelflife

He doesnt have to call it two shifts, 9-1 4hrs (no 15 min break as you have to work more than 4 1/2 hrs) dinner hour then 2-6 4 hrs again no break. perfectly legal

LegacyUser

My girlfriend works in a supermarket on the checkout. They have visits in which is just check that all the checkouts are manned. My girlfriend has a hole in her bladder and called a runner for a toilet break. After waiting an hour and calling several times for relief well you can guess what happend. (i know she shoulda just left the till but well it's happened now so *shrug*)
Anyway due to this visit she was prevented going to the toilet now she didn't make the company aware she had bladder problems however as i see it that isn't the point as they prevented her going to toilet for an hour. After which she couldn't hold it in which is extremely embarrasing on top of this the store REFUSED to send her home due to the visit and only replaced her trousers not the underwear is there any chance of a legal case being put against them for this?
The problem I see is that theres no evidence etc just thought i'd ask before i go to the legal aid office to see where we stand.

Corruptedmorals

Any shift over 4 and a half hours means you're entitled to a break of at least 15 minutes. 9-5.30 shift is bang on the allowance for an hour lunch AND a break, usually this break will be paid but breaks taken for shorter shifts ie. no lunch will not be paid. I've never known anyone doing a 12 hour shift but you have to have a lunch AND a break past any shift over 8 and a half hours- the break is 30 minutes past 9.5 hour shifts but this may not be the legal stipulation.

wmpdd3

Leavian wrote: »

My girlfriend works in a supermarket on the checkout. They have visits in which is just check that all the checkouts are manned. My girlfriend has a hole in her bladder and called a runner for a toilet break. After waiting an hour and calling several times for relief well you can guess what happend. (i know she shoulda just left the till but well it's happened now so *shrug*)
Anyway due to this visit she was prevented going to the toilet now she didn't make the company aware she had bladder problems however as i see it that isn't the point as they prevented her going to toilet for an hour. After which she couldn't hold it in which is extremely embarrasing on top of this the store REFUSED to send her home due to the visit and only replaced her trousers not the underwear is there any chance of a legal case being put against them for this?
The problem I see is that theres no evidence etc just thought i'd ask before i go to the legal aid office to see where we stand.

In any other job you would expect to be able to go to to the bathroom between breaks but on checkouts and on factory lines you are expected to wait until your break.

Did the person apply for the position on checkouts or is it the kinda place where you can be put anywhere in the supermarket?

If your girlfriend friend is still on probation she may just be told that she is not suited to the position. If not go the the union/shop steward

Posy

I hope you don't mind me dragging this thread up again, but I figured there's no point starting a new one when this details my query. I was looking up the work time directive but it only goes up to six hours so I'm confused.

If I work a 12 hour shift, can my employer force me to take an hour and a half (unpaid) lunch break? I'd rather take just one hour or two half-hours.. being docked an hour and a half's pay seems a bit excessive.

(Also, in a 9 hour shift 9am-7pm, do I get an hour of half an hour?)
I do a lot of odd hours and shifts so the breaks thing is baffling me at present.

Any replies appreciated, thanks.

click_it

Dave! wrote: »

Could I ask for some thoughts here?

A few weeks ago I worked the following shift in a shop:

12pm-7pm Sunday

I was on my own from 12-6pm, and one of the others came in then for the final hour.

The shop was fairly busy at times as it was around Christmas, but there may have been intermittent periods where I did not serve a customer for 15 minutes (I don't recall tbh, but it's likely).

Was the employer breaking the law in allowing me work this shift?

As I understand it I'm supposed to get a 15 minute break after 4 1/2 hours, and after 6 hours I'm entitled to a 30 minute break.

I should surely also be able to have a bathroom break, but I would have to leave the store unattended if I did take one, which would presumably be unacceptable to the company

So, simply -- was the employer in the wrong? Or would they be covered because for example, they could argue that I could have taken a break when the other guy came in at 6pm, OR, would the intermittently quiet periods be considered "a break" because I wasn't called upon to serve anybody.

Thanks folks, need to get to the bottom of this.

I used to work in a situation like that. I used to lock the shop if I needed to go to the toilet and I would also put up a note for my 15 minute break. Then I would reopen the shop, everyone that would come to the shop were understanding about the situation

wmpdd3

Posy wrote: »

I hope you don't mind me dragging this thread up again, but I figured there's no point starting a new one when this details my query. I was looking up the work time directive but it only goes up to six hours so I'm confused.

If I work a 12 hour shift, can my employer force me to take an hour and a half (unpaid) lunch break? I'd rather take just one hour or two half-hours.. being docked an hour and a half's pay seems a bit excessive.

(Also, in a 9 hour shift 9am-7pm, do I get an hour of half an hour?)
I do a lot of odd hours and shifts so the breaks thing is baffling me at present.

Any replies appreciated, thanks.

You are right I can't find any guidance on shifts over 6 hours from NERA or the unions.

I can only say what I have gotten in various jobs.

When I worked 12 hr shifts we got a 1hour and 2 15 mins. The hour was unpaid and the 15mins were paid. Both factory and retail.