1990 Celica GT4 Questions

trotter_inc

Hi,

Thinking about buying a 1990 Celica GT4 Turbo, I've always had Corolla's (or standard cars - nothing sporty) and now want something a little more exciting.

A guy I know is selling a 1990 GT4 2 Litre with 4 wheel drive for €3500, its only got 80k miles on it and it seems like a fairly good deal. Drove it last night and it's a dream to drive. However, I have some questions which I hope you experts can help me with

1. What will the yearly tax cost me after July (roughly)?

2. How do sporty cars like that fair on long journeys? Are sports cars like that designed for short journeys?

3. Are they difficult to maintain? Does servicing them cost a lot as compared to a normal car (such as a Corolla)?

4. Would I be better to spend my €3500 on a standard 1995 Celica GT?

Thanks for your opinions guys, open to hearing your good points and bad points.

Tommy

trotter_inc

Also, this will prob sound rightly stupid but when changing gears the car makes a 'hishing' sound like some modified cars. What is this for and is it easy to turn it off? It's just for effect, right?

Ferris

trotter_inc wrote: »

Also, this will prob sound rightly stupid but when changing gears the car makes a 'hishing' sound like some modified cars. What is this for and is it easy to turn it off? It's just for effect, right?

Don't know much about them but tyr this:

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/index.htm?md=708&

or maybe an online forum, there has to be one. Buying an old turbo car is always going to be a problem as turbo repairs or replacement is likely to be worth more than the car.

Why not try for the later version gt4, especially the carlo's sainz wide body version as its collectable?

trotter_inc

Ferris wrote: »

Why not try for the later version gt4, especially the carlo's sainz wide body version as its collectable?

Cheers for that, yeah was thinking of spending the money on a 95/96 model, seems to be a good few around with low mileage. After driving the GT4 last night I cant wait to get back in to one.

tuxy

1. Tax will be the same for older cars.

2. I think they are just fine. Will use more fuel of course. And the hard suspention may be anoying(and tiring) on poorer roads.

3. Yup many parts will be more but I don't know enough about that car to say how much.

bazz26

Presume the OP is talking about the newer Generation 5 Celica GT-Four from 1990 onwards:



Motor tax should cost the same after July as it does now for a 2.0 litre. Check your insurance though as the GT-Four was a quick car for it's day and security on a 1990 car was hardly impressive.

Celicas are usually bomb proof but we are talking about a 19 year old car here so realistically you need to judge the reliability on a car by car basis rather than by make or model. Alot will depend on how the car was cared for by it's previous owners.

Have the car checked out by a good mechanic, and check for signs of abuse/crash damage as these cars can be driven hard and have a tendency to see the wrong side of a ditch from time to time.

Biro

They're a good car the GT4. Turning circle isn't great, probably due to the 4wd. My mate had the Carlos Sainz version of that model. Wouldn't be uncomfortable on long trips, so I wouldn't worry there.
That hiss when you change gear is an after market dump valve. When you change gear, the turbo needs to expell excess air, and then starts spooling up again when the exhaust gas reaches the right pressure again. The valve that came from factory would do this quietly, but people buy after market ones that cause that hiss. They claim to also expell the air faster, but in most cases they just make noise. You can (and should) change back to the standard one.
Heavy enough on fuel.

RobAMerc

OP - I always mean to be the bad c*nt but - you clearly have little interest or love of cars.

Do you really need a 240bhp 4*4 rally bred coupe ?

You'll soon tire of the running costs I imagine or simply kill yourself with it.

Given the questions you've asked here, I really don't think your looking at the right car.

Biro

Ferris wrote: »

Don't know much about them but tyr this:

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/index.htm?md=708&

or maybe an online forum, there has to be one. Buying an old turbo car is always going to be a problem as turbo repairs or replacement is likely to be worth more than the car.

Why not try for the later version gt4, especially the carlo's sainz wide body version as its collectable?

The carlos sainz version was that version, not the later, and it wasn't wide body. Probably a better option though, holds value better!

Biro

RobAMerc wrote: »

OP - I always mean to be the bad c*nt but - you clearly have little interest or love of cars.

Do you really need a 240bhp 4*4 rally bred coupe ?

You'll soon tire of the running costs I imagine or simply kill yourself with it.

Given the questions you've asked here, I really don't think your looking at the right car.

They're 201bhp. The Sainz was 205bhp. The gen 6 was about 255bhp.

trotter_inc

RobAMerc wrote: »

OP - I always mean to be the bad c*nt but - you clearly have little interest or love of cars.

No, fair enough, I take your point, I agree that I dont know enough about them, but the drive was lovely and it certainly boosted my interest and made me realise what I was missing out on. I sort of knew in my own head that the GT4 4x4 was a little over the top.

I am interested in cars and I have to make a start somehow just like everyone else, I might not know as much as most people on the forum but I'm keen to learn and buy something interesting.

Ferris

Biro wrote: »

The carlos sainz version was that version, not the later, and it wasn't wide body. Probably a better option though, holds value better!

The 1990 version is this one (irish version anyway):





Was this one not released in 1991--->

trotter_inc

Ferris wrote: »

The 1990 version is this one (irish version anyway):





Was this one not released in 1991--->

It was the black (second) car I was looking at and that was 1990 registered.

Ferris

trotter_inc wrote: »

It was the black (second) car I was looking at and that was 1990 registered.

Fair enough, I take it that its a jap import then.

Beta Ray Bill

Hi Tommy

First of all, good choice they are a good car.

The one thing I will just say is that Toyotas are generally reliable and if you're lucky you wont have major probs but if you do its going to cost MEGA BUCKS, parts for any sports car are exceptionally expensive. I would suggest you give the car a good look over

Look at the body work carefully and see if looks like any parts of it have been repaired of replaced.

Make absolutly sure that the 4WD is working, cause if thats broke it will cost a fortune to get fixed (assuming im thinking of the correct car)

that "hushing" sound is either a dump valve or waste gate (most likely a dump valve). they are required on REALLY high powered cars to protect the turbo (Im talking 400bhp+) on a standard model though they are not required and In my own opinion draw unwated attention to the car. The have a standard device which performs a similar function but without all that noise. Also Dump valves can cause reliability issues.

Hope this helps
let me know how you get on.

RobAMerc

OP - I didn't mean do be a twat about it.

I was just saying your original post gave the impression you weren't interested in cars but you had the chance to buy one of these so were thinking about it.

I was trying to advise you that its a fairly specialist car - not for the faint harded or I imagine faint walleted is all.

My advice if your looking for a first sports car or even just somthing a bit more spirited than what your used to then maybe look at a Peugeot 106 xsi/gti or something.
Superb handling - wont break the bank (running costs) and sh*t loads of fun.

trotter_inc

RobAMerc wrote: »

OP - I didn't mean do be a twat about it.

I was just saying your original post gave the impression you weren't interested in cars but you had the chance to buy one of these so were thinking about it.

I was trying to advise you that its a fairly specialist car - not for the faint harded or I imagine faint walleted is all.

My advice if your looking for a first sports car or even just somthing a bit more spirited than what your used to then maybe look at a Peugeot 106 xsi/gti or something.
Superb handling - wont break the bank (running costs) and sh*t loads of fun.

Oh yeah, I understand of course I was agreeing with you in my reply to your post.

Thanks for the Peugeot suggestion.

Turbulent Bill

80k miles for an 18 year old car seems a bit low, even for a sports car. The fact that it has a dump valve seems to suggest boy racer rather than occasional weekend runabout. Might this have been clocked?

trotter_inc

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

80k miles for an 18 year old car seems a bit low, even for a sports car. The fact that it has a dump valve seems to suggest boy racer rather than occasional weekend runabout. Might this have been clocked?

Was wondering about that, I asked the current owner and he said that the previous owner rarely used it. From the condition of the inside and outside I was believing him, the interior is immaculate!

Beta Ray Bill

trotter_inc wrote: »

Was wondering about that, I asked the current owner and he said that the previous owner rarely used it. From the condition of the inside and outside I was believing him, the interior is immaculate!

Don't believe him

they will say anything to sell the car... ANYTHING!!!!
they would even say Mass to sell the car!!!

a couple of hours and a bit of elbow grease will make any interior look like new! there a products out there for that exact purpose.

trust me

80k.... Defo Clocked
without a shadow of a doubt, probably more like 110k

trotter_inc

grahambo wrote: »

Don't believe him

80k.... Defo Clocked
without a shadow of a doubt, probably more like 110k

You can't just assume that without looking at the car! That's pure crap!

Beta Ray Bill

on a 17 year old car? 80k?

I would be extermely suprised if it wasnt clocked, as that is low low low milage for a car that old.

As I said to you its not hard to tidy up a car with a few hours work before a sale.

Just be careful dude

JimmyCrackCorn!

trotter_inc wrote: »

You can't just assume that without looking at the car! That's pure crap!

Yes its defiantly clocked :rolleyes:

The car is an old jap turbo so don't expect it to be as reliable as it once was. Do some research on the car make sure you know what your buying and common faults niggles and cost of ownership.

Buying:

Look into the history of the car. Find out when it was imported and get the auction sheet. If it was bought from an importer ring them. Also ask to see the log book.

Find out who serviced it and ask them what miles it were recorded on last service. If you can track down previous owners do.

Vehicle checks are worth the 30 euro aswell.

After you have done that go through the car with a fine tooth comb inspect the screws in the dash for scratches around the clocks. Peddles and carpet for wear(a fair hint at mileage).

Chassis for signs of time spent in a ditch,rust,patching,welding,scratches. Have the car inspected by a mechanic.
I personally would insist on a compression test.

best of luck. If at any stage you get a bad feeling walk away.;)

trotter_inc

grahambo wrote: »

I would be extermely suprised if it wasnt clocked, as that is low low low milage for a car that old.

Just be careful dude

Ok, cheers, I do understand your point though

not1ie

I have a ST205 GT4 for sale and it has 100k miles on it and it is a 1995. It had 50000 on the clock when I imported it, the Jap cars average around 5000miles a year, so the Jap cars are normally slightly lower than the European cars. So ask when it was imported and and you can get a fair idea if it has been clocked. My Celica's have all had electronic speedos (not cable driven) with a standard clock set up. The signals from the gearbox and engine are sent down wires to the clocks which then convert them. The speedo on mine is within 1mph over its range and so I know the mileage on mine is bang on. It is easy to check if the speedo is cable driven or electric, drive in reverse and see if the speedo displays a speed in reverse, a cable driven unit won't show any speed.
The Jap cars also have more power by 10-20bhp depending on the source.
The GT4's to go for are the ST185 Carlos Sainz or RC (Jap Version) and not the air to air intercooled standard ST185 or the ST205 as it was the fastest of the lot.
The engine and gearbox of the GT4 is good for 400bhp with a few bolt on mods. Check the clutch on the GT4, they tend to go between 70 and 100k. If it hasn't been replaced already then you will eventually have an expensive bill on your hands. I know as I have replaced mine!
They are great cars and I am only selling mine as I have to get a 4 door car as there is a baby on the way and the back isnt suited to getting a baby seat in and out of.
Hope that helps.