Today's Irish Times

It wasn't me!

I'm now more in favour of the theory that Clonan was heavily edited to appear to have meant worse than he did. It looks like his portrayal didn't sit well with him, and especially with an ongoing complaints process, to use his place in the Irish Times to rail against the Prime Time portrayal says he's pissed, as far as I'm concerned, and while this is a definite two fingers to the editors of Prime Time, it's also a roaring vindication of legitimate shooting. Even the fact that he's recently broadsided guns is helpful here, perversely, as now it's someone who's seen to be serious, well-respected (Opinions to the contrary are not welcome here - he's seen as an authority whether he is one or not) and not particularly favourable to guns on the whole, and this person is not giving a huge thumbs up to the wide range of shooting sports we have, even the dreaded fullbore pistol? Hell, I think this is a huge boost for the shooting community, a huge put-down for the Prime Time editorial team and something we should be very happy with.

As to whether it's mere media manipulation, I don't think so. It's going to have gotten the backs up of every bleeding heart liberal out there to say guys with powerful rifles and pistols are A-ok. He probably won't suffer any backlash, but it certainly won't be viewed favourably, and coming as it does in the midst of a complaints process and completely raining on RTE's parade, he won't be the toast of their studio, having just pulled the rug clean out from under them. No matter how good he is, it looks like he was played, and has railed against that, and I think that's bloody fantastic, all things considered.

bunny shooter

His article will not undo the damage that the statement on a schoolyard shooting has/will do IMO.

Maybe he was shafted, but he gave them the ammo to do it.

IRLConor

bunny shooter wrote: »

His article will not undo the damage that the statement on a schoolyard shooting has/will do IMO.

Maybe it will, maybe it won't. You gotta give him credit where it's due though.

It wasn't me!

However it's a lot easier to throw around such statements, and frankly, they're tired and carry a lot less weight than a positive statement. We're a lot easier to demonise than exhort, and I would suggest that every positive statement is worth the weight of many negative ones, and this is a huge piece of positive publicity. Yes, that was a ridiculous statement, and I can't imagine any context where it could have been less than ridiculous, but I would suggest that a big article in the Times, exhorting shooters, an unheard of line for the Times, will be remembered far more than even that remark.

bunny shooter

I doubt he did it for our benefit

It wasn't me!

Setting the record straight is for everyone's benefit.

Gift horse. Mouth.

IRLConor

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Gift horse. Mouth.

Indeed, and this horse isn't made of wood and full of Greeks either.

bunny shooter

It was a very good article. However it wasn't an apology.

It wasn't me!

IRLConor wrote: »

Indeed, and this horse isn't made of wood and full of Greeks either.

Precisely.

While not an apology in the explicit sense, I put it to you this way. Which would you rather, that he made some small succinct apology (and he couldn't use his column for this, never would have made print) or that he write a rather glowing article extolling our virtues?

JunkieW

I thought it was a very good article that seemed to hit all the lies and half truths in the Prime Time article on the head.

From someone who has a fair idea of how the newpaper business works, you have to take into account that an editor would have had to have given the go-ahead for this article in advance.

That would be someone who has no apology to make, no right to wrong, but obviously saw that an injustice had been done and did their own bit to balance it. On a day when there's plenty of other things going on, it's not as though they were short of stories.

It'd be downright churlish not to recognise that and give credit where it's due.

IRLConor

bunny shooter wrote: »

It was a very good article. However it wasn't an apology.

There are plenty of reasons for him not to apologise for the Prime Time bits like "I don't think I need to" or "I don't want to piss off RTE and risk not getting work from them in future".

Since he hasn't published his opinion on the matter it's only fair to give him the benefit of the doubt.

bunny shooter

A "small succinct apology" at the beginning of that article would be the canines testicles

Grizzly 45

rrpc wrote: »

I know that you show clear when you hand a firearm to anyone. You always keep it pointed down range and you make sure that they know that too. Present on that range were two instructors, an ISSF Judge, a photographer and the journalist.

You won't get a safer situation than that.

All the safety rules were adhered to: strictly.

You'll note that the photograph was taken from the side, at a safe distance using a telephoto lens.

RRPC.
I have no doubt that you were doing all things safley,as no doubt were the three lads on the ISD cover were doing as well,and as surely as there wasnt a round of 9mm within a km when Wilie O Dea was mugged into that [in]famous picture.However the word here is consistency.If we critique others for saftey infractions with firearms,we should practise what we preach too. We cant critique others,and not critique ourselves because it suits us or is to our "advantage?"

Traumadoc

I really dont think the PT piece was that effective, it seems to have fallen off all the radars, no other media or politicians seem to have tried to keep it in the limelight. Not even the greenies.
Well done to the representatives of our sport and the midland club for getting good press for ourr sport.

Grizzly 45

IRLConor wrote: »

There are plenty of reasons for him not to apologise for the Prime Time bits like "I don't think I need to" or "I don't want to piss off RTE and risk not getting work from them in future".

Since he hasn't published his opinion on the matter it's only fair to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Errr implying that we might shoot up schoolyards perhaps???Worth an apology

If he is wrong and is proven so by the BCC or whomever...Do you think PT /RTE will avail of his services again???? A person who is dis credited is hardly going to be a positive asset to any report. I dont think so,and he is hoping so..

Giving somone the benefit of the doubt on not publishing their opinion or side of the story is a tad difficult,when they have their own space in one of Irelands main newspaper,contacts in both print&TV media,and access to all modern comms.Then they write a story 3 /4 weeks later.Bit difficult that one .Plus why not publish his side of the story???We would all like to hear it.Good manners state that you apologise for a specific incident,or occurance or action.not issue a story,saying nothing of the incident causing offence.Called an inverted apology,and isnt considerd really one at all.

IRLConor

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Errr implying that we might shoot up schoolyards perhaps???Worth an apology

IMO, yes. In his opinion, who knows?

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

If he is wrong and is proven so by the BCC or whomever...Do you think PT /RTE will avail of his services again???? A person who is dis credited is hardly going to be a positive asset to any report. I dont think so,and he is hoping so..

Given RTE's response to the complaints I don't believe they will care if the BCC claim their report was biased.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Giving somone the benefit of the doubt on not publishing their opinion or side of the story is a tad difficult,when they have their own space in one of Irelands main newspaper,contacts in both print&TV media,and access to all modern comms.Then they write a story 3 /4 weeks later.Bit difficult that one .Plus why not publish his side of the story???We would all like to hear it.Good manners state that you apologise for a specific incident,or occurance or action.not issue a story,saying nothing of the incident causing offence.Called an inverted apology,and isnt considerd really one at all.

The point I was making is:

1. We don't know why he hasn't published his opinions on the Prime Time piece.
2. Until he does, giving him the benefit of the doubt is the fairest thing to do. If not and you firmly believe he's out to get us, fair enough but surely you can be the bigger person and treat him with the respect you believe he hasn't shown us?

rrpc

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

RRPC.
I have no doubt that you were doing all things safley,as no doubt were the three lads on the ISD cover were doing as well,and as surely as there wasnt a round of 9mm within a km when Wilie O Dea was mugged into that [in]famous picture.However the word here is consistency.If we critique others for saftey infractions with firearms,we should practise what we preach too. We cant critique others,and not critique ourselves because it suits us or is to our "advantage?"

Well, I didn't critique the lads in the ISD picture because I didn't see the background stuff.

Walk on to a range at any time and you can take a picture that doesn't look safe unless you are actually there and see that it is safe.

I can't see any way of taking a picture of someone shooting that doesn't look unsafe in some way or another.

But since you ask, lets compare them.

ISD: rifle pointing upwards, bolt closed finger on trigger
O'Dea: Pistol pointing at camera, action closed, finger on trigger
TC: Action closed, finger on trigger, pointing downrange photo from side.

I know which one looks safer, I only know what the factors were in one of them that made it safe.

I think in these cases, a picture needs a thousand words

IRLConor

rrpc wrote: »

Well, I didn't critique the lads in the ISD picture because I didn't see the background stuff.

Walk on to a range at any time and you can take a picture that doesn't look safe unless you are actually there and see that it is safe.

I can't see any way of taking a picture of someone shooting that doesn't look unsafe in some way or another.

But since you ask, lets compare them.

ISD: rifle pointing upwards, bolt closed finger on trigger
O'Dea: Pistol pointing at camera, action closed, finger on trigger
TC: Action closed, finger on trigger, pointing downrange photo from side.

I know which one looks safer, I only know what the factors were in one of them that made it safe.

I think in these cases, a picture needs a thousand words

Add in the picture from ISSF.tv previously commented on where the free pistol shooter is pointing his pistol upwards at quite an angle.

Looking directly at the picture only would lead most shooters to cry foul until they find out that the range was designed to allow that kind of movement safely.

Grizzly 45

Certainly not the rifle:)

bunny shooter

Your mans hat is questionable

rrpc

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Certainly not the rifle:)

Ok got me there

I told you I didn't post on that thread, Forgot to mention I didn't read it properly either :eek:

bunny shooter

As you've admitted it, only a small slice of humble pie will do

tonysopprano

Recently has anyone tried to buy a full page advertisement in the IT.
Costly, I would presume and this is what shooting in Ireland has most definatly got from this article.
Combined with the article in the Bray newspaper, I would say that this is a good week for shooting sports.

bunny shooter

We had a pretty bad one there recently too, especially one tuesday night :rolleyes:

rrpc

bunny shooter wrote: »

We had a pretty bad one there recently too, especially one tuesday night :rolleyes:

Maybe we should do a graph to keep track

You know, like the stock exhange. Start with 1000 points and dock points for each bad press article and add them for the good ones.

We could have it at the top of the forum so that everyone can see how our stock is doing

meathstevie

rrpc wrote: »

Maybe we should do a graph to keep track

You know, like the stock exhange. Start with 1000 points and dock points for each bad press article and add them for the good ones.

We could have it at the top of the forum so that everyone can see how our stock is doing

Even a continious loop of Liveline and Primetime couldn't make it look as bad as Wall Street the last while

Bananaman

The whole "he hasn't bowed down and licked our shoes" sh1te is getting tired.

Clonan made a tit of himself on Prime Time. it ws a ****e article, people have complained to the BCC - the process is now out of our hands - was there not a topic on that somwhere else that we can comment on when the result comes in?

We seem to have gone off the track on this one - I believe the topic is "Today's Irish Times".

Yesterday I hung this article up in the clubhouse. There were a good 50 or more noobs around and they were queued up reading this thing all day. They were all commenting on how good it is. Most of em had neither seen not heard of the Prime Time article which is fair enough as it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS ARTICLE other that Mr. Clonan was involved in the other one and wrote this one in it's entirety. Quite a few of them had read the article but felt compelled to have another read, as did I, when people commented on how good an it was.

Can we just accept it on it's own merits, as the best bit of mainstream news and best positioning, the shooting sports have ever had (in my own view) and rail against the machine in another thread please.

B'Man

Bananaman

Remember we got a FULL PAGE positive article in a daily broadsheet on the BIGGEST NEWS DAY IN EUROPE. This paper was being read for it's viewpoints ALL OVER EUROPE that day.

You cannot buy that kind of exposure.

B'Man

ivanthehunter

He's a bit of a yes man IMO.
The whole thing smacks of lip service in a bid, not to make amends but in an effort to gain acceptance with a group that could provide him with perceivable creadence in the public domain and hence another feather in the cap

You'd only get in Ireland....

patbundy

Bananaman wrote: »

Remember we got a FULL PAGE positive article in a daily broadsheet on the BIGGEST NEWS DAY IN EUROPE. This paper was being read for it's viewpoints ALL OVER EUROPE that day.

You cannot buy that kind of exposure.

B'Man

i agree B'man. again i say welldone to the midlands and to the lads that were there . the report is brilliant,almost perfect but he forgot one small little line.(im sorry lads,i messed up)