Chorus/NTL Letter about excessive usage :S

Jonathan Smith

I got a letter which told me i downloaded in excess of 160gb, and that they upgraded to a 120gb usage limit pack.

I had previously thought that NTL did not have such a limit, and upon reading this letter I visited the UPC website and read the Acceptable Usage Policy. There it said that the penalty is 3 cent per megabyte over the limit.

Are they going to charge me for the excess usage?

I can't afford to pay €3000. Even if the upgrade accounted for it, thats still 40gb excess usage, which is €1200, which I cannot afford either.

I sent an email to them and have not got a reply yet.

Cabaal

Perhaps ring them as you'll get your answer faster, NTL recently changed their packages and I've never heard of a charge for going over but if its a new thing then your best bet is to get the answer to your question directly from NTL.

hightower1

Hi there,

Well as standard there would be a first warning letter stating that if it continues you will be upgraded or suspended for one month. The second will be pretty much the same except the afore mentioned suspension or upgrade. If you go to upc.ie you can check your usage cap on your product and if you google "du meter" this will save an app to your system tray allowing you to run reports on a weekly/monthly/yearly bassis to keep an eye on your down and up loads.

ps if you've not already seen you can upgrade your speed free on the upc site and this will increase you cap too

Jonathan Smith

hightower100 wrote: »

Hi there,

Well as standard there would be a first warning letter stating that if it continues you will be upgraded or suspended for one month. The second will be pretty much the same except the afore mentioned suspension or upgrade. If you go to upc.ie you can check your usage cap on your product and if you google "du meter" this will save an app to your system tray allowing you to run reports on a weekly/monthly/yearly bassis to keep an eye on your down and up loads.

OK, thank you for ythis information. Although I don't know how to login, LOL.

ps if you've not already seen you can upgrade your speed free on the upc site and this will increase you cap too

i cant see this. i can see the broadband ultra, which is what i have, but i cant c what ur talking about.

joolsveer

Is there any tool that can be used by an ntl subscriber to monitor volume of usage? I inquired of them before but they were not helpful. I am also on the ultra package.

paulm17781

hightower100 wrote: »

if you google "du meter" this will save an app to your system tray allowing you to run reports on a weekly/monthly/yearly bassis to keep an eye on your down and up loads.

du meter is no substitute for proper monitoring which UPC don't provide. If UPC are to threaten people they should allow a method for people to check their actual usage and not expect people to install inefficient third party products.

hightower1

again Paul your dead wrong, it is up to a customer to keep an eye on themselves, UPC provide guide lines to follow and thats all. Its like saying oh the cops are bad cause they will arrest you for drink driving?! "how am I to know I'm drunk" "they should provide me with a breathalioser at birth so i always know"???? wtf??? it is a rule and your responsability to stick to them not the person setting the rules.

paulm17781

hightower100 wrote: »

again Paul your dead wrong, it is up to a customer to keep an eye on themselves, UPC provide guide lines to follow and thats all. Its like saying oh the cops are bad cause they will arrest you for drink driving?! "how am I to know I'm drunk" "they should provide me with a breathalioser at birth so i always know"???? wtf??? it is a rule and your responsability to stick to them not the person setting the rules.

Xbox 360, PS3, Wii, Ipod, IP telephony any other network device! Du meter can not monitor them. UPC provide no way for customers to check their usage.

If people can't monitor their usage effectively, which they can't on UPC, it is UPCs problem. That said, 160Gb is excessive.

jor el

hightower100 wrote: »

again Paul your dead wrong, it is up to a customer to keep an eye on themselves, UPC provide guide lines to follow and thats all. Its like saying oh the cops are bad cause they will arrest you for drink driving?! "how am I to know I'm drunk" "they should provide me with a breathalioser at birth so i always know"???? wtf??? it is a rule and your responsability to stick to them not the person setting the rules.

If UPC set a cap, and want to charge for going over it, then they must provide an accurate method of monitoring usage, for the customer. I have always found a difference between DUMeter's stats and the usage stats from my ISPs. I'm not sure which one is right, but the ISP one is the only one that should matter as this is the number they will use when calculating any penalties. Therefore, it is up to the ISP to provide such a counter.

Your analogy is a bit crap too. A better one would be to compare it to a bank allowing you to overdraw your account, but not giving you any way to check your balance.

hightower1

Look, if you wanna go downloading huge amounts of data you already know your walking the line of the penelties. There are many apps out there to monitor yourself. The rules are set there and not up to the company to hold your hand all the way. Your an adult act like it. 160gb a month is blatent over use and this is not going to be an "iffy" issue. doing that amount you KNOW your treading the line. In which case you take steps to protect yourself. You know your spending a lot on your credit card? Do you shop more and go €10000's over your limit then whine at visa for not telling you?? No, its called mutual agreement that you are over 18 signing a contract and have some common sense and self controll.

dub45

Surely a quick look at the folder where you are downloading your stuff to will give you an idea very quickly of where you stand?

forbairt

hightower100 wrote: »

Look, if you wanna go downloading huge amounts of data you already know your walking the line of the penelties. There are many apps out there to monitor yourself. The rules are set there and not up to the company to hold your hand all the way. Your an adult act like it. 160gb a month is blatent over use and this is not going to be an "iffy" issue. doing that amount you KNOW your treading the line. In which case you take steps to protect yourself. You know your spending a lot on your credit card? Do you shop more and go €10000's over your limit then whine at visa for not telling you?? No, its called mutual agreement that you are over 18 signing a contract and have some common sense and self controll.

Last I checked ... I can see how much I have spent on my credit card ..
(while some people spend way too much on their CC .. they still have the ability to check it)

similarly ... I can check how many units of electricity I've used.

my god I believe even BT let me see my usage when I was with them

160 gbs while a lot for me ... with 4 people in a house wouldn't actually be that much ... watching 4oD ... Steam ... and other online services ... voip ... latest linux distributions ... virtual appliances and so on ...

Gran Hermano

paulm17781 wrote: »

Xbox 360, PS3, Wii, Ipod, IP telephony any other network device! Du meter can not monitor them. UPC provide no way for customers to check their usage.

If people can't monitor their usage effectively, which they can't on UPC, it is UPCs problem. That said, 160Gb is excessive.

+1, UPC are penalising their customers for not providing them with the
tools to monitor their own usage. They days of a customer having just
1 PC connected to a modem are limited and DU meter and the likes
will not monitor traffic across multiple devices on a home LAN.

Would it kill UPC to provide their customers with a web-interface
showing their current usage stats? Other ISPs seem able to do so.

hightower1

And what stops you calling their center? It is free phone after all? And also if you were with bt and dislike upc service so much why not change back? Or is it that you over all do like it but are nitpicking?

guil

high tower do you work for upc or what ur very defensive of them

forbairt

hightower100 wrote: »

And what stops you calling their center? It is free phone after all? And also if you were with bt and dislike upc service so much why not change back? Or is it that you over all do like it but are nitpicking?

I don't want to call you though ... I want to be able to log into a site to check my net usage statistics. I don't want to have to wait on hold or have to phone a premium number to get something that really should be available online.

The great thing about a forum is one can voice ones opinions ... give feedback and so on ... some people call it nitpicking .. some call it a discussion.

guil07 wrote: »

high tower do you work for upc or what ur very defensive of them

marcbrophy

how the hell can anyone d/l over 160gb in a month??

hightower1

Well it is a judgement call then, stay with UPC and unfortunatly for now have to call their center to get the most accurate reading poss or go to another isp for this but possibly lower speeds and higher price?
Personally I dont think its that much of an inconvenience to have to monitior mysel but I am on the 12mb line with only one pc.
"The problem, as you so poiniently put it is choice" - The Architect.

Cabaal

Hightower as I'm sure your aware most people with the higher end packages on any ISP have more then one PC, they generally have wii's, xbox, or PS3 as well as laptops.

While I'll agree that the end user can monitor their usage on there PC's this does not cover non-PC/Mac activity's and as such while I believe its fair enough to warn customers for excessively going over their cap I believe UPC would find it hard to win a case against a customer if they charged for going over the cap without them providing a monitor tool.

You'll notice the ISP's that do charge, Three, Perlico etc have usage tools on their websites and they clearly state current usage versus your cap which is more then fair to the customer.

However if a customers cap is say 20GB and the customer goes 1GB over and UPC charge the customer 30.72e for this 1GB without a monitoring tool being in place then they are clearly talking the piss and they'll be quickly brought to Comreg over such action.

I'm sure NTL can tell you your usage too but its not practical for a user to ring NTL and stay on hold for 10min+ each time to find this out, additionally NTL generally advertise there contact number as 1890 940 624 so while there is also a freephone number NTL don't make it readily available

Hightower I would also recommend that should you be a UPC employee that you state this clearly at this time, otherwise if its discovered later you and any aliases will be banned also please be aware that registering multiply accounts on boards.ie is against boards rules and you can be site banned for it. This goes for any ISP employees when discussing your employers products/services.

Cabaal,

hightower1

Ha ha Mark I have seen people downloading 560gb in one month!!! Fact. Son had got a ps3 in his room and his dad didnt realise it could log into the wifi!!! lol. Son was downloading all 560gigs on movies, games and music! Half a terra of data in one month and all in a ps3 now thats impressive.

Cabaal

marcbrophy wrote: »

how the hell can anyone d/l over 160gb in a month??

You'll find that 99% of the people that download this much and more download copyright material such as tv shows, movies, games etc.

While there are streaming TV services like BBC iPlayer these only tend to work in the UK so in Ireland your pretty limited what you can download thats very large and will use 100GB's in a month.

Just my view on this side of things
Most I've seen pulled down in a month was approx 950GB...pretty impressive on a 8MB line.

hightower1

Cabaal wrote: »

Hightower as I'm sure your aware most people with the higher end packages on any ISP have more then one PC, they generally have wii's, xbox, or PS3 as well as laptops.

While I'll agree that the end user can monitor their usage on there PC's this does not cover non-PC/Mac activity's and as such while I believe its fair enough to warn customers for excessively going over their cap I believe UPC would find it hard to win a case against a customer if they charged for going over the cap without them providing a monitor tool.

You'll notice the ISP's that do charge, Three, Perlico etc have usage tools on their websites and they clearly state current usage versus your cap which is more then fair to the customer.

However if a customers cap is say 20GB and the customer goes 1GB over and UPC charge the customer 30.72e for this 1GB without a monitoring tool being in place then they are clearly talking the piss and they'll be quickly brought to Comreg over such action.

I'm sure NTL can tell you your usage too but its not practical for a user to ring NTL and stay on hold for 10min+ each time to find this out, additionally NTL generally advertise there contact number as 1890 940 624 so while there is also a freephone number NTL don't make it readily available

Hightower I would also recommend that should you be a UPC employee that you state this clearly at this time, otherwise if its discovered later you and any aliases will be banned also please be aware that registering multiply accounts on boards.ie is against boards rules and you can be site banned for it. This goes for any ISP employees when discussing your employers products/services.

Cabaal,

I can assure you I am not a UPC employee and never was, in fact I know someone working there.

Now in answer to this ridiculous rant.... As i belive if you go over your cap you are not charged any extra you are asa I stated in my very first reply warned of this and given the boundries again. No company would be as hard line as you would like people to belive. Also as I have said before it may be inconvienient to have to call them but it does not mean there is no way to check your usage????

Cabaal

hightower100 wrote: »

I can assure you I am not a UPC employee and never was, in fact I know someone working there.

Now in answer to this ridiculous rant.... As i belive if you go over your cap you are not charged any extra you are asa I stated in my very first reply warned of this and given the boundries again. No company would be as hard line as you would like people to belive. Also as I have said before it may be inconvienient to have to call them but it does not mean there is no way to check your usage????

Please show me where it says you can call them to check your usage?
Any other ISP clearly states how you can check your usage in FAQ's or in marketing material...case in point Perlico.
Also I think anyone would agree thats its unfair to make a customer pay just so they can check their broadband usage, a simple tool on-line could fulfill this task and would stop needless calls to NTL's call centers which would in the long term depending on volumes save them money.

So lets say UPC don't charge, You still assume that no company would be hard line regarding usage, your obviously not known anyone who has been charged for going over their cap I can assure you it does happen...not much but it does happen

UPC however do terminate people's contracts for going over their cap,

marcbrophy

Cabaal wrote: »

You'll find that 99% of the people that download this much and more download copyright material such as tv shows, movies, games etc.

While there are streaming TV services like BBC iPlayer these only tend to work in the UK so in Ireland your pretty limited what you can download thats very large and will use 100GB's in a month.

Just my view on this side of things
Most I've seen pulled down in a month was approx 950GB...pretty impressive on a 8MB line.

I'm just thinking in terms of hard drive space on a system! Are people running out to the local hardware store to buy a new external h/d every second month!!

DemonOfTheFall

hightower100 wrote: »

I can assure you I am not a UPC employee and never was, in fact I know someone working there.

Now in answer to this ridiculous rant.... As i belive if you go over your cap you are not charged any extra you are asa I stated in my very first reply warned of this and given the boundries again. No company would be as hard line as you would like people to belive. Also as I have said before it may be inconvienient to have to call them but it does not mean there is no way to check your usage????

It would be trivial and almost free for them to implement a web based download monitor. Then it would be entirely their customer's fault for going over the cap. As it is there is no way at all, short of buying a very expensive router, to know exactly what has come in and out of your connection.

I reckon that they refuse to provide a download manager because they would prefer if anyone using more than 5gigs a month just fúcked off their network. Why else would they leave their customers in fear of hitting the invisible limits they put on their connections?

They spout crap like contention, but I have personally gotten letters from them in an area with no contention at all. Their incompetence in other areas eventually got rid of me as a customer, so score 1 for them I suppose.

hightower1

Cabaal wrote: »

Please show me where it says you can call them to check your usage?
Any other ISP clearly states how you can check your usage in FAQ's or in marketing material...case in point Perlico.
Also I think anyone would agree thats its unfair to make a customer pay just so they can check their broadband usage, a simple tool on-line could fulfill this task and would stop needless calls to NTL's call centers which would in the long term depending on volumes save them money.

So lets say UPC don't charge, You still assume that no company would be hard line regarding usage, your obviously not known anyone who has been charged for going over their cap I can assure you it does happen...not much but it does happen

UPC however do terminate people's contracts for going over their cap,

I said that no isp would be as hard line as you would like people to belive. ie you get immediatly charged per mb downloaded if you go over usage very first time.... As I stated to you before and will again for the third time now you firstly get a warning letter, then a second, then a possible upgrade or suspension. All the time it is free to call and get an exact usage limit from them.

~~ they DO NOT chrage immediatly over your cap
~~ they will not penialise you for first over use
~~You get TWO warnings before hand
~~ there are plenty of apps to monitor usage to varing effects


I'm not sure how clearer Ineed to make that for you but there you go k .

paulm17781

hightower100 wrote: »

~~ there are plenty of apps to monitor usage to varing effects

No there aren't! No app will take over heads or failed packets into account. Only UPC or an expensive router will give that information.

hightower1

well Paul there ya go, anwered your own problem there...

Buy an expensive router...
Call Upc...
Change providers...

Done? Thoise do seem to be the options????

paulm17781

And the issue only exists because of UPC's inefficiencies. Done.

inforfun

I am using net traffic meter myself.
That of course only tracks my pc usage, XBOX is not monitored.
And i dont have a clue what a few ours of PES2008 would generate as it comes to data traffic.
Only once i checked against UPC figures for a months, i had 40gb according to net traffic meter while UPC claimed i used 42 that month.
So i take it net traffic meter is pretty accurate.
At the other hand, i think UPC should provide the option to check your data usage in "MY UPC" on their website as long as they enforce data caps.

They seem to change their T&C also when it suits them. I started with 40gb of DL data to spend and then they changed it to DL&UL combined. 40gb on a 6mb line is a joke.

Still awaiting the upgrade to 12mb with 120 gb data which as i understood, would happe nmore or less automatically?

hightower1

paulm17781 wrote: »

And the issue only exists because of UPC's inefficiencies. Done.

Well if your not happy with their customer service, broadband usage cap monitoring, upgrade of speeds etc why stay? why not just switch isp????