RTE suggests treaty is in trouble...

Darragh29

What Vision? wrote: »

There was allot of false alligations made about the treaty, and listening to that woman who didn't want her sons conscripted?

Maybe if they made a reality show out of the referendum more people would have voted.

"Ireland's next Referendum"

or

"Project Lisbon"

I know people have the right to vote and the right not to vote but turn out's of less that 60% it should be run again no matter what the result.

Well 50% plus one ought to do it.

Darragh29

Call_me_al wrote: »

if people only listened to me more there would be no need for a referendum.:D

sure the democratic process is a joke anyway, even if the no votes "wins" only 25% of the country's eligible voters would have made the decision, of which i would say 10% voted no because they didnt "understand" the treaty. and they my friend are the fools. this attitude "if you dont know vote no" is ridiculous and is the downfall of the system . if you (general public) havent bothered to get up off your lazy ass and find out about the treaty then you dont deserve a vote.

Say if your mentally disabled or have a learning disability, should you not be allowed to vote??? Sounds like it based on your comment above.

uptherebels

Darragh29 wrote: »

The point I made has no relation to the argument that forms the basis for the election or where someone might stand in relation to the debate. All I'm saying is that there is a case to be made for saying in future that before a referendum can be considered to be full and final, that maybe a "quorum" should be insisted on so that a majority of the people have actually spoken. Other's would argue that a non-voter can speak as loud as a voter by not voting, I just think people should go to the bother of voting. This nonsense that a referendum can be swung a particular way if a load of people stay at home and don't bother voting seems a bit Irish to me.

and if the minimmum number is lets say 51% of voters how many times are you willing to rerun the votting until you get a high enough turnout.If people are to lazy to go out and vote then thats their loss.

mcaul

It'll be interesting if SF & Libertas will take responsibility if this proves to have negative consequences for Ireland as I expect.

Chardee MacDennis

bill_ashmount wrote: »

pity not everyone is as educated as you....:rolleyes:......fool

i know you are being sarcastic but tbh too fecking right, voting is a privilege and should be treated as such. and a certain level of intelligence should be required to vote.

EDIT: Think i answered your question Darragh

mike65

Offally 57/43 YES!

No Laois numbers yet

Londford/W-meath no % but as bad as 2-1 NO

Wexford - the NOs appear to just have the edge

Wicklow 50/50 on 130 boxes open.

Carlow/Kilkenny too soon to be sure but looks about 50/50 right now.

Louth 50% open 57/43 NO

Meath 60% open 60/40 NO

Kildare 50% open 57/43 YES

Caven/Monaghan looks to be a NO.

Mike

Sherifu

mike65 wrote: »

Connaught/Ulster early tallies are 60/40 against

Galway West 40 % boxes open 56/44 no
Galway East 25% boxes open 50/50 no

Mayo 10% boxes 60/40 no

Sligo-Lietrim 30% boxes 66/44 no

Roscommen 50% boxes 56/44 no

Donegal NE 63/37 no

Mike.

Doesn't look good.

Pal

they peddled lies and the electorate bought it.
thats how politics works.
its democracy at work.
you all voted no for the American military machine.
ha ha

btw
our esteemed currency is falling rapid.
bet you didn't see that one coming.
no more CHristmas shopping in new york at the cheap rate.
mortgages going up too.

you all bought it.

Darragh29

uptherebels wrote: »

and if the minimmum number is lets say 51% of voters how many times are you willing to rerun the votting until you get a high enough turnout.If people are to lazy to go out and vote then thats their loss.

Yeah, there is that side of the argument as well. I suppose by not voting you are to a certain degree making a statement as well.

seamus

uptherebels wrote: »

and if the minimmum number is lets say 51% of voters how many times are you willing to rerun the votting until you get a high enough turnout.If people are to lazy to go out and vote then thats their loss.

Well, you can come up with "incentives" to force people to get off their ass.

Such as if it has to be voted on a third time, you enforce a national unpaid holiday.

suimhneas

Whats going to happen if the no vote wins, which i sure as hell hope it does! whats is it that sinn fein and libertas have to take responsibality for? is the sky about to fall?

Chardee MacDennis

Darragh29 wrote: »

Say if your mentally disabled or have a learning disability, should you not be allowed to vote??? Sounds like it based on your comment above.

a learning disability does not reflect intelligence, my 18 year old brother is dyslexic and still managed to make an informed opinion by researching up on the treaty.

and if a mentally disabled person cant grasp the concept of what they are voting on then no of course they shouldnt be allowed to vote on it. may seem a bit extreme but you may as well close your eyes and see what you mark.

is that not why people under the age of 18 cant vote because we dont "trust" them to make an informed responsible decision?

What Vision?

mcaul wrote: »

It'll be interesting if SF & Libertas will take responsibility if this proves to have negative consequences for Ireland as I expect.

I'd be interested to find out where Libertas get their funding!!!!

And the same for Sinn Féin

As far as a comissioner is concerned. I think it's a good deal. The amount of money wasted having 27 of them and staff for them aswell. Imagine having 26 goverment departments, so that each county has one. It's nuts.

That was one of the reasons I voted yes.

sink

I think Europe got a good hard kick in balls yesterday and is now laying on it's side drifting in the ocean , who knows where the currents are going to take it? No one as far as I can see.

ninebeanrows

A terrible day for Ireland unfolding.

A terrorist organisation and an American Libertas Organisation (which obviously care oh so much for us Irish) look like defeating all the parties we trust and have voted for all our lives.

It looks a resounding No at this stage.

What Vision?

uptherebels wrote: »

and if the minimmum number is lets say 51% of voters how many times are you willing to rerun the votting until you get a high enough turnout.If people are to lazy to go out and vote then thats their loss.

That is a good question.

Three and then the Govermant decides if they can't get the people to vote. Including the Seanad, who should have a complete veto in that matter then and the president too.

Pal

suimhneas wrote: »

Whats going to happen if the no vote wins,

nothing. we just look like wallys

suimhneas wrote: »

which i sure as hell hope it does!

already answered that one

suimhneas wrote: »

whats is it that sinn fein and libertas have to take responsibality for? is the sky about to fall?

there's no 'A' in responsibility

Darragh29

Call_me_al wrote: »

i know you are being sarcastic but tbh too fecking right, voting is a privilege and should be treated as such. and a certain level of intelligence should be required to vote.

EDIT: Think i answered your question Darragh

Nope, voting is a right, not a privilage. That's where the government got it wrong here, people can vote a particular way for any reason or indeed for no reason at all, there is no responsibility either explicit or implied, that is required of a voter when they vote. What are you suggesting, that we introduce a permit system for voting, where you have to demonstrate a particular level of competency before you are giving full voting rights? Or maybe for your first five votes, your ballot paper is put into a provisional ballot box and checked for consistency and a logical decision before it is put into the actual ballot box??? Or maybe people under 30 and with a family tradition of left of cente politics should be made wear L plates while in the polling station???

seamus

suimhneas wrote: »

Whats going to happen if the no vote wins, which i sure as hell hope it does! whats is it that sinn fein and libertas have to take responsibality for?

Well, assuming that Libertas even bother to hang around, they'll have a lot to answer for when we lose out commissioner next year and an EU common defence policy is put in place without any treaties.

ShooterSF

mike65 wrote: »

Galway East 25% boxes open 50/50 no

Mike.

So its 1 all to no united lol.

Oh and on the general idea of a minimum vote absoulutely agree. One thing I'm disgusted by today is lack of turn out. But then again we had people on this forum pushing the idea of abstaining, what do you do in that situation? Unfortunately its hard to tell if people are just lazy or indifferent.

bill_ashmount

Call_me_al wrote: »

i know you are being sarcastic but tbh too fecking right, voting is a privilege and should be treated as such. and a certain level of intelligence should be required to vote.

EDIT: Think i answered your question Darragh

Go away and fu*k off. I suppose you'll be the person to decide who is intelligent enough to vote??

Those who voted No are just as intelligent as those who voted Yes

lisbon_lions

Call_me_al wrote: »

i know you are being sarcastic but tbh too fecking right, voting is a privilege and should be treated as such. and a certain level of intelligence should be required to vote.

Perhaps throw in a certain colour of skin and maybe a gender there while your at it, eh?

mcaul

suimhneas wrote: »

Whats going to happen if the no vote wins, which i sure as hell hope it does! whats is it that sinn fein and libertas have to take responsibality for? is the sky about to fall?

Euro has already fallen 1% in the past 30 minutes as a direct result of this. It brings instability and uncertainty to the European market. It will delay foreign investment and probaly cost jobs - Just at a time we don't need it.

Lies by SF & Libertas have caused this. - but they will not take responsibilty.

In future, the referendum commission should vet all posters & advertising to ensure that the fairly reflect what people are voting on - this would prevent the trash that was put about the place.

- Any new deal will not in anyway be more favourable.

Stabshauptmann

If you want to force people to vote then there has to be a none of the above option; people have the right to abstain (in fact people should if they dont know what they're voting for)

Pal

What Vision? wrote: »

I'd be interested to find out where Libertas get their funding!!!!
.

american military interest .

IRLConor

Jip wrote: »

And again you're making the assumption that everyone who voted 'No' done so because they're gullible and believed in the lies.

Not necessarily, but given the amount of crap spread by both sides perhaps some of it stuck.

You only have to look through this forum and see all of the posts made by people saying things like:

• Lisbon makes us lose our commissioner!
• We're getting our influence in the council halved!
• We're losing our constitutional neutrality! (:rolleyes:)
• It's going to force us to raise our tax rates.

all of which are factually, provably untrue and have been repeatedly and thoroughly debunked here and elsewhere. And they're just the arguments that are based on the treaty! There were loads of people voting yes "because we got loads of money from the EU" or voting no "because the EU [sic] didn't give other countries the vote" too.

An impartial Referendum Commission with the power to fine the bejaysus out of anyone publishing lies about the matter being voted on would be a very good thing IMHO.

Darragh29

Call_me_al wrote: »

a learning disability does not reflect intelligence, my 18 year old brother is dyslexic and still managed to make an informed opinion by researching up on the treaty.

and if a mentally disabled person cant grasp the concept of what they are voting on then no of course they shouldnt be allowed to vote on it. may seem a bit extreme but you may as well close your eyes and see what you mark.

is that not why people under the age of 18 cant vote because we dont "trust" them to make an informed responsible decision?

No, but a learning disability can obviously affect reasoning and logical decision making.

Chardee MacDennis

bill_ashmount wrote: »

Go away and fu*k off. I suppose you'll be the person to decide who is intelligent enough to vote??

Those who voted No are just as intelligent as those who voted Yes

well if you read what i said you wouldnt jump to such conclusions. whatever way people want to vote is up to them but they should have a reason, if they dont understand the treaty well then they can abstain or spoil their vote. but voting no because you dont understand is not a good use of your vote.

kenco

Writing was on the wall when the turnout figures were estimated last night.

The Yes side needed a higher turnout as it looked all along that the No side would get their vote out regardless.

Interesting to see what happens now

justfortherecor

Looks like a depressing day unfolding.