RTE suggests treaty is in trouble...

What Vision? · 13-06-2008 11:03am

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

If you want to force people to vote then there has to be a none of the above option; people have the right to abstain (in fact people should if they dont know what they're voting for)

I'm just thinking out loud. buy if you can't decide either way then spoil your vote. Atleast that would be a good protest. Imagine if 25% of the votes were spoiled!!! then there would be questions asked.

Chardee MacDennis · 13-06-2008 11:03am

lisbon_lions wrote: »

Perhaps throw in a certain colour of skin and maybe a gender there while your at it, eh?

dont be stupid, thats racism and sexism. but i suppose you have no problem with the ageism that doesnt allow people under 18 to vote then?

i am not saying base the right to vote on colour, gender, age, beliefs, religion, but on intellect.

suimhneas · 13-06-2008 11:03am

Seamus when did you become a psychic? im not libertas and not sinn fein, and i think ye are going totally overboard. dont believe all the government tells you or have you not learnt that yet. As for Mr "no a in responsibility" get a flippin life. Really

j2dab · 13-06-2008 11:04am

Here we go folks.............Get ready for the recession!!

Indie18 · 13-06-2008 11:04am

Weathercheck wrote: »

A terrible day for Ireland unfolding.

A terrorist organisation and an American Libertas Organisation (which obviously care oh so much for us Irish) look like defeating all the parties we trust and have voted for all our lives.

It looks a resounding No at this stage.

do really actually trust any of the parties in this politically backwards country cause if i was being honest when the general elections were running i would have felt dirthy no matter who i voted for. as for this lisbon treaty not much will change one way or the other. so i could care less which way it goes. doesn't mean i wouldn't go out and vote i think it's important to use your vote.

conceited · 13-06-2008 11:04am

if they dont understand the treaty well then they can abstain or spoil their vote. but voting no because you dont understand is not a good use of your vote. __________________

If they explained the thing in the first place and they couldn't even do that,what does that make them then?Idiots?

Stabshauptmann · 13-06-2008 11:05am

But spoiling a vote does nothing. If there is a proper "Non of the above" option and it wins, then you would have to re run the election or referendum

DOCARCH · 13-06-2008 11:05am

What Vision? wrote: »

I'd be interested to find out where Libertas get their funding!!!!

I'd say FF were not asking that when Ganley was donating to them!

oscarBravo · 13-06-2008 11:06am

Darragh29 wrote: »

Nope, voting is a right, not a privilage. That's where the government got it wrong here, people can vote a particular way for any reason or indeed for no reason at all, there is no responsibility either explicit or implied, that is required of a voter when they vote.

Please read everything FionnMatthew has posted in this forum, and come back to me.

As for people being entitled to vote for any reason whatsoever: I find that view utterly irreconcilable with the wailing and gnashing of teeth that will ensue if and when this treaty is put to a vote again.

"Wah! I voted for stupid reasons, and I demand that you respect that!"

Stabshauptmann · 13-06-2008 11:06am

conceited wrote: »

If they explained the thing in the first place and they couldn't even do that,what does that make them then?Idiots?

the information was there.

Cadet? · 13-06-2008 11:06am

j2dab wrote: »

Here we go folks.............Get ready for the recession!!

Indeed. I am quite depressed. First time I've ever felt strongly about any Irish political issue. Next few years have just got bleaker.

Chardee MacDennis · 13-06-2008 11:07am

conceited wrote: »

If they explained the thing in the first place and they couldn't even do that,what does that make them then?Idiots?

do they have to hold your hand in the polling booth too? people have the internet and public libraries etc find out for yourself. when you're picking your holiday you dont let someone else decide the dates and destinations do you? and this is far more important.

Pal · 13-06-2008 11:07am

Call_me_al wrote: »

getting a bad feeling that the no vote has it. fools....

a lot of fools in this country. much more than I ever imagined.

What Vision? · 13-06-2008 11:07am

IRLConor wrote: »

Not necessarily, but given the amount of crap spread by both sides perhaps some of it stuck.

You only have to look through this forum and see all of the posts made by people saying things like:
Lisbon makes us lose our commissioner!

We're getting our influence in the council halved!

We're losing our constitutional neutrality! (:rolleyes:)

It's going to force us to raise our tax rates.

all of which are factually, provably untrue and have been repeatedly and thoroughly debunked here and elsewhere. And they're just the arguments that are based on the treaty! There were loads of people voting yes "because we got loads of money from the EU" or voting no "because the EU [sic] didn't give other countries the vote" too.

An impartial Referendum Commission with the power to fine the bejaysus out of anyone publishing lies about the matter being voted on would be a very good thing IMHO.

Miss Information
Comissioner is an overrated position. They are not there for ireland. they are supposed to be neutral. What jobs do you give then all. they have to be made up. Even governments don't have that many departments

Neutrality is gaurenteed.

We have a veto on tax.

in what way is our "influence being "halved"

Darragh29 · 13-06-2008 11:07am

justfortherecor wrote: »

Looks like a depressing day unfolding.

I have a picture in my head of the scene out of Fr. Ted where Bishop Brennan tells Ted & Dougal to organise a protest against a firm in the local cinema that the Vatican has banned, but instead of people boycotting it, they turn up to watch it! The reverse has happened here, I'd say the EU top brass will be ending Biffo to some far flung corner of South America where they have been knocking the ****e outa each other since 1807!

Raskolnikov · 13-06-2008 11:08am

j2dab wrote: »

Here we go folks.............Get ready for the recession!!

You've got to be kidding, right?

All a No vote means is that is that the status quo continues. There's absolutely no reason to suggest that this will cause a recession (although some would say due to other factors, we're in one already).

El Stuntman · 13-06-2008 11:09am

j2dab wrote: »

Here we go folks.............Get ready for the recession!!

we're already there

johnnyq · 13-06-2008 11:09am

Call_me_al wrote: »

sure the democratic process is a joke anyway, even if the no votes "wins" only 25% of the country's eligible voters would have made the decision, of which i would say 10% voted no because they didnt "understand" the treaty. and they my friend are the fools..

You are condemning people on your own estimate (=opinion).
Doesn't say much for you.

conceited · 13-06-2008 11:09am

Kaptain Redeye

Don't talk ****e.

Pal · 13-06-2008 11:09am

Weathercheck wrote: »

A terrible day for Ireland unfolding.

A terrorist organisation and an American Libertas Organisation

It looks a resounding No at this stage.

A terrorist organisation and an American Libertas Organisation fooled our people and they bought it.

IRLConor · 13-06-2008 11:09am

What Vision? wrote: »

Miss Information
Comissioner is an overrated position. They are not there for ireland. they are supposed to be neutral. What jobs do you give then all. they have to be made up. Even governments don't have that many departments

Neutrality is gaurenteed.

We have a veto on tax.

in what way is our "influence being "halved"

Precisely. I was pointing out those things as blatant lies which were repeatedly put forward.

Biro · 13-06-2008 11:10am

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

TBH if I was running the country there'd be severe penalties for people deliberatly peddling lies in the run up to a referendum or election

You'd have everyone in jail if that's the case!

bill_ashmount · 13-06-2008 11:11am

Call_me_al wrote: »

well if you read what i said you wouldnt jump to such conclusions. whatever way people want to vote is up to them but they should have a reason, if they dont understand the treaty well then they can abstain or spoil their vote. but voting no because you dont understand is not a good use of your vote.

I read your entire one line post in which you decided that the NO voters were fools.

Call_me_al wrote: »

getting a bad feeling that the no vote has it. fools....

Anyway, I'm done with you now, going away to celebrate the result...:D

Pal · 13-06-2008 11:11am

Raskolnikov wrote: »

You've got to be kidding, right?

All a No vote means is that is that the status quo continues. There's absolutely no reason to suggest that this will cause a recession (although some would say due to other factors, we're in one already).

wake up
All a No vote means is that is that the people of Ireland bought the lies.
its hard to fathom this.
our country could be seriously fcukked

ShooterSF · 13-06-2008 11:11am

mcaul wrote: »

In future, the referendum commission should vet all posters & advertising to ensure that the fairly reflect what people are voting on - this would prevent the trash that was put about the place.

The same "impartial" commission that put a rosy tint on everything. Again ,sick of repeating this, "We will keep some of our vetoes" while not finishing an impartial sentence "and loose others" is tinting the points.

Now on the other hand an outright ban on posters I'd support as not one of them stated anything factual about the treaty. They all took one of 3 approaches, orders to vote one way or another without any reason, vague statements like It'll cost you or of be at the heart of it (what the ****?) or outright lies. But a commission that proved itself partial can not be trusted with vetting posters without risking the ruin of free debate.

Stabshauptmann · 13-06-2008 11:11am

Raskolnikov wrote: »

You've got to be kidding, right?

All a No vote means is that is that the status quo continues. There's absolutely no reason to suggest that this will cause a recession (although some would say due to other factors, we're in one already).

The status quo wont continue. There have been agreements already for numerous changes, these changes must be detailed and formalised.

We will lose our commissioner (one of the things no votes think they have stopped).
The Treaty actually gave a lot of protection for irish interests

Chardee MacDennis · 13-06-2008 11:12am

johnnyq wrote: »

You are condemning people on your own estimate (=opinion).
Doesn't say much for you.

i spoke to no one over the last week that could tell why they were voting no, except for replying "i dont know enough about it to make a deicion so i am voting no"

seamus · 13-06-2008 11:13am

suimhneas wrote: »

Seamus when did you become a psychic?

What do you mean? We *are* going to lose our Commissioner, regardless of how this vote turns out. I'll be on the edge of my seat to see how Libertas defends that one.

bookiebasher · 13-06-2008 11:13am

hey Daragh29 ..who is biffo..???

cornbb · 13-06-2008 11:14am

Raskolnikov wrote: »

You've got to be kidding, right?

All a No vote means is that is that the status quo continues. There's absolutely no reason to suggest that this will cause a recession (although some would say due to other factors, we're in one already).

The status quo does not continue. The EU has been meandering on its way for years, under the hope that the reform treaty everyone has worked on would come to pass. If it is not passed, there will be a period of uncertainty and the progress the EU needs to make will be slowed down for years. Every major international news organisations, even those not reknowned for hyperbole or scaremongering, have matter-of-factly said that a No result will result in a crisis for Europe.

Did you really think a No vote would have no consequences?

RTE suggests treaty is in trouble...

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