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RTE suggests treaty is in trouble...

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    #92
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    I think the government has for many years, failed to keep people educated with regard to the different institutions of the EU and how they affect us. For example, I know in Ireland we have two houses (Dail & Senead), that passes legislation. In the EU, there is an EU commission, an EU council, a Council of Ministers, ECJ this and EU that, I don't know how these organisations work with regard to each other or how they affect me as a citizen. The whole thing looks to me like one big gravy train that is fond of dictating what we should do, particularly with regard to voting. You can't blame the people for not understanding something, either in a treaty form or in terms of what exactly the EU is, which many people simply do not know. To quote Mr. Miagoe of Karate Kid, "there is no such thing as bad student, only bad teacher"...


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    #93
    Stabshauptmann
    Registered Users Posts: 4,885 ✭✭✭Stabshauptmann


    conceited wrote: »
    Don't talk ****e.
    you dont think there was enough information to make an informed decision.

    Lets see there was the referendum commission, prime time, newspapers, the info booklets sent to every home and oh yes, free and easy access to the Treaty itself.

    But no, lets vote based on posters of monkeys


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    #94
    johnnyq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 641 ✭✭✭johnnyq


    mcaul wrote: »
    Euro has already fallen 1% in the past 30 minutes as a direct result of this.

    Absolute crap. You have no evidence to support this AT ALL.

    The euro has fallen before in the past without a speculative lisbon no vote.
    Lies by SF & Libertas have caused this. - but they will not take responsibilty.

    So you obviously think there was no good reason to reject this....


    Any new deal will not in anyway be more favourable.

    Do you expect people to vote yes to a worse deal?


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    #95
    Pal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,115 ✭✭✭Pal


    Cowen must go (thats a joke. don't go getting uposet)


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    #96
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    Pal wrote: »
    wake up
    All a No vote means is that is that the people of Ireland bought the lies.
    its hard to fathom this.
    our country could be seriously fcukked

    I see you bought into the scare tactics.


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    #97
    IRLConor
    Subscribers Posts: 4,076 ✭✭✭IRLConor


    ShooterSF wrote: »
    The same "impartial" commission that put a rosy tint on everything. Again ,sick of repeating this, "We will keep some of our vetoes" while not finishing an impartial sentence "and loose others" is tinting the points.

    Now on the other hand an outright ban on posters I'd support as not one of them stated anything factual about the treaty. They all took one of 3 approaches, orders to vote one way or another without any reason, vague statements like It'll cost you or of be at the heart of it (what the ****?) or outright lies. But a commission that proved itself partial can not be trusted with vetting posters without risking the ruin of free debate.

    I don't buy your "partial Referendum Commission" shtick for one minute.

    In fact, the statement you keep quoting does not appear anywhere on their website! (At least not anywhere I could find)


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    #98
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Kaptain Redeye wrote: »
    The status quo wont continue. There have been agreements already for numerous changes, these changes must be detailed and formalised.

    We will lose our commissioner (one of the things no votes think they have stopped).
    The Treaty actually gave a lot of protection for irish interests
    I agree with that.
    Though a yes voter for that exact reason,the cat is among the pidgeons now and I am excited at the prospect of what happens next.

    Theres a separate thread for collating the results and tallys by the way everyone :)

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055313273


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    #99
    What Vision?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭What Vision?


    seamus wrote: »
    What do you mean? We *are* going to lose our Commissioner, regardless of how this vote turns out. I'll be on the edge of my seat to see how Libertas defends that one.


    That's an interesting point.

    Cos the number is Limited to 27 by the Nice Treaty, so if another country joins, what then. Are they not entitled to one? Or does someone have to go without every year.


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    #100
    lisbon_lions
    Registered Users Posts: 517 ✭✭✭lisbon_lions


    Call_me_al wrote: »
    dont be stupid, thats racism and sexism. but i suppose you have no problem with the ageism that doesnt allow people under 18 to vote then?

    i am not saying base the right to vote on colour, gender, age, beliefs, religion, but on intellect.

    so lets set up IQ booths at polling stations to ascertain who can vote? come on, ffs. With statments like that you wouldnt make the grade.


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    #101
    Biro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,091 ✭✭✭Biro


    Cadet? wrote: »
    Indeed. I am quite depressed. First time I've ever felt strongly about any Irish political issue. Next few years have just got bleaker.

    Sensationalist drivel.


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    #102
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    bookiebasher wrote: »
    hey Daragh29 ..who is biffo..???

    Biffo is Brian Cowen but in my post, Biffo is Fr. Ted! Can't you just see Bishop Brennan looking over Ted saying, "All I asked you to do is organise a little campaign to get the dam treaty passed, but what do you do??? You get people to vote against it! Down with this sort of thing!!! careful now!


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    #103
    Stabshauptmann
    Registered Users Posts: 4,885 ✭✭✭Stabshauptmann


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    I think the government has for many years, failed to keep people educated with regard to the different institutions of the EU and how they affect us. For example, I know in Ireland we have two houses (Dail & Senead), that passes legislation. In the EU, there is an EU commission, an EU council, a Council of Ministers, ECJ this and EU that, I don't know how these organisations work with regard to each other or how they affect me as a citizen. The whole thing looks to me like one big gravy train that is fond of dictating what we should do, particularly with regard to voting. You can't blame the people for not understanding something, either in a treaty form or in terms of what exactly the EU is, which many people simply do not know. To quote Mr. Miagoe of Karate Kid, "there is no such thing as bad student, only bad teacher"...
    Actually its taught in schools, as well as explained in those lovely booklets that went to every home in the country, and then theres in internet and all


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    #104
    Ponster
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ponster


    johnnyq wrote: »
    Absolute crap. You have no evidence to support this AT ALL.

    They haven't (its too early) but It's happened before :
    The outcome of Ireland's referendum on the European Union reform treaty is also being eyed, with results expected on Friday. The rejection of the EU constitution by France and the Netherlands in 2005 was one factor behind the euro's fall that year.
    But analysts were divided on whether the Irish vote would have much of an impact on the single currency this time.
    "If the referendum is rejected, the euro will come under significant pressure," said Sharada Selvanathan, a currency strategist at BNP Paribas in Hong Kong.


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    #105
    Raskolnikov
    Registered Users Posts: 10,148 ✭✭✭✭Raskolnikov


    cornbb wrote: »
    Did you really think a No vote would have no consequences?
    Not at all, I rather hoped that a No vote would put an end of the plans for the EU superstate.


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    #106
    Cadet?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 101 ✭✭Cadet?


    Biro wrote: »
    Sensationalist drivel.

    Eh. How is it sensationalist drivel?

    I made a personal statement about how I feel..

    You know me better do ya?!


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    #107
    Pal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,115 ✭✭✭Pal


    Biro wrote: »
    Sensationalist drivel.
    he's actually correct

    they peddled the lies and you bought it.


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    #108
    bookiebasher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 331 ✭✭bookiebasher


    but Darragh29 that word is not in the dictionary so excuse me for my ignorance...


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    #109
    johnnyq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 641 ✭✭✭johnnyq


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    I'd say the EU top brass will be ending Biffo to some far flung corner of South America where they have been knocking the ****e outa each other since 1807!

    This perception of Europe is why people did vote no.

    What you have described is an unaccountable monster.

    You freely admit that and wanted a yes vote to appease it? :confused:


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    #110
    Biro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,091 ✭✭✭Biro


    Kaptain Redeye wrote: »
    But no, lets vote based on posters of monkeys

    Not much choice really.... Vote according to posters of monkeys, or vote according to posters of smiling liars.


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    #111
    cornbb
    Registered Users Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭cornbb


    Raskolnikov wrote: »
    Not at all, I rather hoped that a No vote would put an end of the plans for the EU superstate.

    And the provisions of the Lisbon treaty would have brought this about how exactly?


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    #112
    Pal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,115 ✭✭✭Pal


    Raskolnikov wrote: »
    Not at all, I rather hoped that a No vote would put an end of the plans for the EU superstate.

    jeeze. I thought we were voting on abortion :confused:


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    #113
    Biro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,091 ✭✭✭Biro


    Pal wrote: »
    he's actually correct

    they peddled the lies and you bought it.

    Are you for real? You don't know how I voted! And if you can't see lies on both sides then you're blinkered or blind or both.


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    #114
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    ShooterSF wrote: »
    The same "impartial" commission that put a rosy tint on everything. Again ,sick of repeating this, "We will keep some of our vetoes" while not finishing an impartial sentence "and loose others" is tinting the points.
    Assuming they did actually say that, "we will keep some" implicitly means we will lose others. If they said "we will lose some" but didn't add "and keep others", would you be moaning as much?
    What Vision? wrote: »
    Cos the number is Limited to 27 by the Nice Treaty, so if another country joins, what then. Are they not entitled to one? Or does someone have to go without every year.
    The number is limited to 18 by Nice, as I understand it.


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    #115
    conceited
    Closed Accounts Posts: 891 ✭✭✭conceited


    you dont think there was enough information to make an informed decision.

    Lets see there was the referendum commission, prime time, newspapers, the info booklets sent to every home and oh yes, free and easy access to the Treaty itself.

    But no, lets vote based on posters of monkeys
    People aren't as stupid as you believe them to be.
    It seems the whole country voted no so that speaks volumes.


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    #116
    IRLConor
    Subscribers Posts: 4,076 ✭✭✭IRLConor


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    I think the government has for many years, failed to keep people educated with regard to the different institutions of the EU and how they affect us. For example, I know in Ireland we have two houses (Dail & Senead), that passes legislation. In the EU, there is an EU commission, an EU council, a Council of Ministers, ECJ this and EU that, I don't know how these organisations work with regard to each other or how they affect me as a citizen. The whole thing looks to me like one big gravy train that is fond of dictating what we should do, particularly with regard to voting.

    It's not that hard to understand. Really. Look it up. There's LOADS of readily available information out there.
    Darragh29 wrote: »
    You can't blame the people for not understanding something, either in a treaty form or in terms of what exactly the EU is, which many people simply do not know.

    Yes you can. Anyone who didn't educate themselves on the treaty and expected it to be spoon fed to them wasn't IMHO acting like an adult about the thing.
    Darragh29 wrote: »
    To quote Mr. Miagoe of Karate Kid, "there is no such thing as bad student, only bad teacher"...

    Bull****. When you're talking about teaching a kid how to read (or karate!) maybe, but when you're talking about a bunch of adults voting on a complex legal document and then they don't bother even trying to educate themselves then there is such a thing as a bad student.


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    #117
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    On a general note:

    Everyone step back and take a deep breath.

    The debate thus far has been almost entirely civilised. Let's keep the recriminations the same way.

    Don't mistake this for a polite request, btw.


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    #118
    johnnyq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 641 ✭✭✭johnnyq


    Pal wrote: »
    wake up
    All a No vote means is that is that the people of Ireland bought the lies.
    its hard to fathom this.
    our country could be seriously fcukked
    Ireland already had rapid inflation and rising unemployment before the vote.

    You will be the one who will be speading lies (absolute lies) that a no vote caused a downfall in our economy.

    You are no better than those you criticise.


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    #119
    Pal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,115 ✭✭✭Pal


    conceited wrote: »
    People aren't as stupid as you believe them to be.
    .

    I disagree.


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    #120
    Stabshauptmann
    Registered Users Posts: 4,885 ✭✭✭Stabshauptmann


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    Biffo is Brian Cowen but in my post, Biffo is Fr. Ted! Can't you just see Bishop Brennan looking over Ted saying, "All I asked you to do is organise a little campaign to get the dam treaty passed, but what do you do??? You get people to vote against it! Down with this sort of thing!!! careful now!
    I didnt know Fr Ted was supposed to be an Offaly man. Biffo stands for Big Ignorant F*cker From Offaly


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    #121
    What Vision?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 54 ✭✭What Vision?


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Assuming they did actually say that, "we will keep some" implicitly means we will lose others. If they said "we will lose some" but didn't add "and keep others", would you be moaning as much?

    The number is limited to 18 by Nice, as I understand it.


    Nice limited it to 27

    The Lisbon treaty would bring it to 18, so it would be rotated every five years.

    If it was 18 from Nice we wouldn't have the issue with the comissioner in the vote.


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