RTE suggests treaty is in trouble...

Biro

Cadet? wrote: »

Eh. How is it sensationalist drivel?

I made a personal statement about how I feel..

You know me better do ya?!

You made a statement. An extreme one without facts.

Pal

johnnyq wrote: »

Ireland already had rapid inflation and rising unemployment before the vote.

You will be the one who will be speading lies (absolute lies) that a no vote caused a downfall in our economy.

You are no better than those you criticise.

you shouldn't use the past and future tense in the same sentence.

Chardee MacDennis

Raskolnikov wrote: »

Not at all, I rather hoped that a No vote would put an end of the plans for the EU superstate.

in all seriousness what do people have against an EU superstate? one of my main reasons for voting Yes was that i saw this treaty as another step towards becoming one, albeit a very small step.

also why does there need to be an impartial committee, if the government believed that this was the right step forward for the country.

democrates

j2dab wrote: »

Here we go folks.............Get ready for the recession!!

We're already in a recession, caused by profiteers run amok in the great American superstate.

mcaul

johnnyq wrote: »

Absolute crap. You have no evidence to support this AT ALL.

The euro has fallen before in the past without a speculative lisbon no vote.

http://finance.yahoo.com/currency

Euro has fallen from 1.5462 to 1.5321 from 10.35 to 10.50am this morning. - Directly in the window of the first tallies being announced.

and quote from foreign exchange trading room

"Thursday saw Ireland hold a referendum deciding whether the country will approve the Treaty of Lisbon, a revision of the EU Constitution that was voted down in similar referenda by France and the Netherlands in 2005. At that time, the negative result caused the EURUSD to plummet sharply as pundits debated the continued sustainability of the EU and the single currency. This time around, major European countries opted not to hold referenda, with Ireland being the only country that is constitutionally bound to run it by the voters. The votes are to be tallied Friday and the outcome known around 12pm GMT. This has potential to create substantial volatility."


But sure if the yes side said this, they be told it was a lie!!!

johnnyq

Call_me_al wrote: »

i spoke to no one over the last week that could tell why they were voting no, except for replying "i dont know enough about it to make a deicion so i am voting no"

Lol! misread.

Prove to me then that those were the people that did vote.

To continue with my original post....

And this somehow gives to decisive evidence to call those who voted fools.

Get real.

spank_inferno

From Mike65's previous post, Cowen seems to be bringing in the vote in Offaly.
Its going to be tight though. Smaller counties may be less in favour but the overall picture wont be clear for a while yet.

Whatever way Ireland votes at least we can be proud that we had the oppertunity to have our voices heard.

Stabshauptmann

Biro wrote: »

Not much choice really.... Vote according to posters of monkeys, or vote according to posters of smiling liars.

Agreed that the yes side did a terrible job of promoting the treaty. There slogans were meaningless, there explanations poor and there canvassing late in the day.

Its like they learned nothing from Nice.

But had the No side not resported to lies and misinformation it would have passed

Stabshauptmann

johnnyq wrote: »

You spoke to one!!!

Let me get this straight...just..............one!!

And this somehow gives to decisive evidence to call those who voted fools.

Get real.

re-read the post

IRLConor

oscarBravo wrote: »

Assuming they did actually say that, "we will keep some" implicitly means we will lose others. If they said "we will lose some" but didn't add "and keep others", would you be moaning as much?

The number is limited to 18 by Nice, as I understand it.

I don't think the number 18 is mentioned anywhere.

I think Nice just requires us to reduce the number of commissioners to less than the number of member states once there are 27 member states and that the commissioner places must be fairly rotated.

So, without another deal between now and then, the 2009 commission will have less than 27 commissioners but we don't know the precise number until they agree.

I suspect they'll use 2/3s as the number and re-agree on the provisions set out in the Lisbon treaty. It's the most likely one to reach consensus in the council.

ShooterSF

oscarBravo wrote: »

Assuming they did actually say that, "we will keep some" implicitly means we will lose others. If they said "we will lose some" but didn't add "and keep others", would you be moaning as much?

No but only as I'd see it as a positive for the no side not because I'd think it were anymore impartial. Look I know what it means but don't be so naive to think that these things aren't carefully worded, some people call it positive spin, and you'll find advertisers and politicians do the exact same thing highlighting the positives and ignoring the negatives. I can guarantee if you turned around to people and put it one way or the other you would see different results, these things are pretty much accepted among common understanding.

If it wasn't so important to leave it out or just word it the positive way what was the problem ? Lack of ink? An oversight? Or an impartial commission who had ,as human beings made up their mind, and either conciously or subconciously worded it in a positive light?

Biro

johnnyq wrote: »

Ireland already had rapid inflation and rising unemployment before the vote.

You will be the one who will be speading lies (absolute lies) that a no vote caused a downfall in our economy.

You are no better than those you criticise.

Exactly, in the same way that in another 2 years we'll hear how Bertie caused all the good times and the minute he left the country fell into a hole. All bullsh*t.

Raskolnikov

cornbb wrote: »

And the provisions of the Lisbon treaty would have brought this about how exactly?

Preamble and Article 42 of the (consolidated) Treaty of European Union states that common defence is an aspiration that will come of the treaty. This is something I strongly disagree with, why should I wait for the next referendum when I can put a stop to it right now?

passive

Darragh29 wrote: »

Say if your mentally disabled or have a learning disability, should you not be allowed to vote???

:eek: YES. If someone is mentally disabled and not of sound mind to make rational decisions they should not be voting. Jesus Christ... You're disgusted by the idea!? what!?

johnnyq

Pal wrote: »

you shouldn't use the past and future tense in the same sentence.

So long as you stop scaremongering (with NO evidence). I am unpreturbed about my syntax. Thanks for spotting it.

Zonko

Weathercheck wrote: »

A terrible day for Ireland unfolding.

A terrorist organisation and an American Libertas Organisation (which obviously care oh so much for us Irish) look like defeating all the parties we trust and have voted for all our lives.

It looks a resounding No at this stage.

There's a high brow comment.

Biro

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

But had the No side not resported to lies and misinformation it would have passed

Both sides were spouting lies.

tenandtracer

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

Agreed that the yes side did a terrible job of promoting the treaty. There slogans were meaningless, there explanations poor and there canvassing late in the day.

Agreed - there was no need for mug shots on the posters. Their tireless self promotion may cost them dearly.

ciaran76

So what I get from reading this whole thread is.....

No voters = Half are fools other half are ok cos they knew what they were voting for

Yes Voters = All knew what they were voting for

People who didn't vote = All Yes voters but too lazy to vote

Pal

johnnyq wrote: »

So long as you stop scaremongering (with NO evidence). I am unpreturbed about my syntax. Thanks for spotting it.

4 of the big 5 Irish bank stocks have fallen in the past hour.
The currency has fallen one cent agains the dollar.
The euro has fallen half a penny against the pound.
Euro interest rates futures have risen 1/8%

This is real. Not semantic nonsense like the no posters on here are spouting on about. People peddled lies. Fact. We bought it.

Good news maybe through..........

YES vote reported coming in strong in Dublin

Crash

I'd be worried about the larger states using this as a bargaining chip to reintroduce the fixed commissioner positions for them with others rotating in and out. While Nice does state that all member states must be treated fairly under the rotation system, it also states that:

EU Nice summary wrote:

that each Commission must satisfactorily reflect the
different demographic and geographic characteristics of the Member States.

Which could easily be used to state that due to higher populations etc. they have a right to a fixed commissioner.

IRLConor

What Vision? wrote: »

Nice limited it to 27

As I understand it, Nice limited it to less than 27. It didn't say how many, just that there be less.

What Vision? wrote: »

If it was 18 from Nice we wouldn't have the issue with the comissioner in the vote.

To be fair, that was something that was lied about very frequently. Nice requires that there be less than 27 commissioners and that the rotation be fair which implies that Ireland will be without a commissioner at least some of the time.

EDIT: As far as I know, Nice doesn't define what "fair" means in terms of rotating the commissioners either.

Biro

Zonko wrote: »

Originally Posted by Weathercheck
A terrible day for Ireland unfolding.

A terrorist organisation and an American Libertas Organisation (which obviously care oh so much for us Irish) look like defeating all the parties we trust and have voted for all our lives.

It looks a resounding No at this stage.

There's a high brow comment.

Not to mention a sum up of the thinking in this country! "The parties we trust and have voted for all our lives" is exactly the statement that shows brain washed idiots wandering in to polling booths and voting because of what their leader said to vote.
I don't care how anyone voted, but to vote because the "party we trust and always voted for" says yes is just stupid.
Time and time again the parties in this country have proved themselves to be untrustworthy, and will continue to do so.

johnnyq

Pal wrote: »

4 of the big 5 Irish bank stocks have fallen in the past hour.
The currency has fallen one cent agains the dollar.
The euro has fallen half a penny against the pound.
Euro interest rates futures have risen 1/8%

This is real. Not semantic nonsense like the no posters on here are spouting on about. People peddled lies. Fact. We bought it.

Good news maybe through..........

YES vote reported coming in strong in Dublin

SO WHAT?

You have no cause re share prices.

You have one claim. Have you checked the oil prices perhaps/

This ridiculous unfounded **** is utterly misleading.

Raskolnikov

Call_me_al wrote: »

in all seriousness what do people have against an EU superstate? one of my main reasons for voting Yes was that i saw this treaty as another step towards becoming one, albeit a very small step.

:eek:

We already have monetary union, and that's destroying our competitiveness and driving inflation. The one-sized Franco-German shoe does not fit Ireland at all.

Chardee MacDennis

ciaran76 wrote: »

So what I get from reading this whole thread is.....

No voters = Half are fools other half are ok cos they knew what they were voting for

Yes Voters = All knew what they were voting for

People who didn't vote = All Yes voters but too lazy to vote

well sure if you want to make inaccurate generalisations then yes thats exactly whats been said.:rolleyes:

ShooterSF

Pal wrote: »

The euro has fallen half a penny against the pound.

So maybe it was in decline anyway... both the euro and the pound are equally affected by the traty as UK is in EU just like the rest of us.

bill_ashmount

Pal wrote: »

This is real. Not semantic nonsense like the no posters on here are spouting on about. People peddled lies. Fact. We bought it.

God you really are a bitter little person.
You had all the support, the government, the opposition parties, the finances, the foreign support and you lost....tough

Pal

johnnyq wrote: »

SO WHAT?

You have no cause re share prices.

You have one claim. Have you checked the oil prices perhaps/

This ridiculous unfounded **** is utterly misleading.

You asked.
I answered.
sorry if you don't like the 'facts' you requested.

this is your now removed signature.
One question for you...
do you have a political affiliation ?
Its somewhat disconcerting the approach you take.
__________________
Please VOTE NO!!!
Celebrities Voting No: Gay Byrne, Eamon Dunphy, Ben Dunne, Vincent Browne, Tom McGurk,
David Norris, Shane Ross, Kevin Myers, Ulick McEvaddy and Sinead O'Connor amongst others...
Reasons to vote no ................................................................................... Why the celebrities?

Marcus.Aurelius

Pal wrote: »

The currency has fallen one cent agains the dollar.
The euro has fallen half a penny against the pound.

Oh my God, a whole cent and a half penny!!!

Hold on everyone!!!

*waits nervously*

What, we're still alive??? But how???

/Sarcasm