RTE suggests treaty is in trouble...

Pal

mcaul wrote: »

a 10 cent change in one day would be catastrophic for world financial markets and won't happen.

Spot on. It won't happen.
last saw a move of that magnitue back in 1985 !

sink

mcaul wrote: »

a 10 cent change in one day would be catastrophic for world financial markets and won't happen.

A significant change is regarded to be 2%. The Euro & US dollar has been range bound for the past 5 months at 1.54 - 1.58 with the odd mid-day dip or spike.

1.53 has marked a new downward trend and shows that financial traders have started to lose confidence in the euro. - The immediate result in this will be a rise in petrol & diesel prices as crude oil has not moved down with the dollar as it has on previous occasions.

A gradual 10% change over 1 month is what we need to take the pressure of Eurozone exporters. It would really help the economy out.

cornbb

lenny_leonard wrote: »

Anyone listening to RTE Radio 1 now? They're taking it as over. Sinn Fein, Patricia McKenna and Libertas asked what needs to be renegotiated when Brian Cowan goes back to the EU... barely a response past an embarrassed mumble, although Declan Ganly thinks we should get our commissioner back. :rolleyes: The reality of their "better deal" is becoming obvious to the public, I hope.

Whether or not the treaty is passed, I think we can expect to see SF, Libertas etc quietly stepping aside over the next while. They do not have to deal with the fallout, either way.

jank

I dont know why the "yes" side here are predicting doom for ireland.
The sun will fall and will rise tomorrow.
Summer will come and go and the leaves will fall.

Europe will still be there and we will be part of it.

IRLConor

lenny_leonard wrote: »

Declan Ganly thinks we should get our commissioner back. :rolleyes:

How does he think we could get that negotiated and ratified before Nice kicks in for the 2009 commission?

snickerpuss

To everyone who's saying that not everyone who voted no had weird reasons for it:

10 people I know voted no.
4 because they just didn't understand it (Neither did I at first but I went and read about it)
2 because they want foreign people out of Ireland and "they'll be telling us what to eat for breakfast" (My grandparents, honestly )
My 3 aunts are voting no so that my brother won't be conscripted into the EU Army.
Another thinks they'll change our tax and we won't be allowed to make our own laws any more.

I kid you not, sadly.

So I certainly know nobody who has any actual reason to vote no aside maybe from not knowing what the treaty is about. Wild theories about abortion and euthanasia and conscription should have been properly countered at the start.

silvine

We will but we will be on the fringes. Fantastic place for an island of four or five million people to be, out of population of 450 million.

We've stuck our fingers up to Europe.

redspider

Tally results at this stage would seem to indicate a No vote, but its wise to wait until the full tallies are in.

Its gonna be close in the end it would seem, with less than 10% of a gap. So either way, not a resounding result for either side, which is what the polls pre the vote predicted.

5 constituencies are Yes in Dublin, 11 around the country, many of course are No in Galway, Cork, etc. There seems to be an east-west divide. But most constiuencies are close, such as 47% Yes, 53% No.

We'll know more over the next few hours.

If it is a No, it will be interesting to see representative democracy at work, where 96% of our TD's will as a result of a No vote have to represent and articulate that side. (ie: dont bet on it).

Redspider

silvine

It is a NO. The Yes side are all but conceeding on the airwaves.

molloyjh

Biro wrote: »

Not much choice really.... Vote according to posters of monkeys, or vote according to posters of smiling liars.

Or vote according to information that you researched yourself all the while ignoring the monkey and liars alike. Is that really too much to ask?

Atomic Pineapple

snickerpuss wrote: »

To everyone who's saying that not everyone who voted no had weird reasons for it:

10 people I know voted no.
4 because they just didn't understand it (Neither did I at first but I went and read about it)
2 because they want foreign people out of Ireland and "they'll be telling us what to eat for breakfast" (My grandparents, honestly )
My 3 aunts are voting no so that my brother won't be conscripted into the EU Army.
Another thinks they'll change our tax and we won't be allowed to make our own laws any more.

I kid you not, sadly.

So I certainly know nobody who has any actual reason to vote no aside maybe from not knowing what the treaty is about. Wild theories about abortion and euthanasia and conscription should have been properly countered at the start.

I know just as many people who voted yes for just as stupid reasons

oscarBravo

bill_ashmount wrote: »

God you really are a bitter little person.

gurramok wrote: »

Good grief, you haven't a clue.

Did I stutter?

silvine

I guess there won't be a United State of Europe after all.

molloyjh

conceited wrote: »

People aren't as stupid as you believe them to be.
It seems the whole country voted no so that speaks volumes.

The majority of the electorate didn't vote at all so that opinion/point is wholly incorrect.

uptherebels

draffodx wrote: »

I know just as many people who voted yes for just as stupid reasons

+1

cornbb

draffodx wrote: »

I know just as many people who voted yes for just as stupid reasons

Such as...?

Pal

I know many people who voted yes because they wanted to do the opposite to SF.

oscarBravo

redspider wrote: »

If it is a No, it will be interesting to see representative democracy at work, where 96% of our TD's will as a result of a No vote have to represent and articulate that side. (ie: dont bet on it).

I don't know whether you misunderstand what we voted on, or are wilfully misrepresenting it.

The "no" vote means the Dáil can't legally ratify the treaty. It doesn't mean anything else. It certainly doesn't give anyone a mandate.

seamus

Pal wrote: »

I know many people who voted yes because they wanted to do the opposite to SF.

Whether that's a stupid reason or not, is debateable

ShooterSF

snickerpuss wrote: »

To everyone who's saying that not everyone who voted no had weird reasons for it:

10 people I know voted no.
4 because they just didn't understand it (Neither did I at first but I went and read about it)
2 because they want foreign people out of Ireland and "they'll be telling us what to eat for breakfast" (My grandparents, honestly )
My 3 aunts are voting no so that my brother won't be conscripted into the EU Army.
Another thinks they'll change our tax and we won't be allowed to make our own laws any more.

I kid you not, sadly.

So I certainly know nobody who has any actual reason to vote no aside maybe from not knowing what the treaty is about. Wild theories about abortion and euthanasia and conscription should have been properly countered at the start.

Well 10 people is a good representation. Now if only 10 people vote yes because the govenment said so, they "feel" it's good for europe, europe was good to us before so were forever in their debt (a tactic drug dealers and loan sharks use :eek: ) oh and the good old the rest of europe will be angry even though we like everyone of them under the rules have just as equal a right to reject it. Hmm could be a tight race with the ignorance balanced out :rolleyes:

jank

We must vote yes otherwise we will be thrown out of Europe:D

uptherebels

molloyjh wrote: »

The majority of the electorate didn't vote at all so that opinion/point is wholly incorrect.

the majority of the electorate chose not to vote.

sink

Certain yes voters voted because, SF was calling for a no, they thought the EU done well for Ireland but had no clue what was in the treaty so were prepared to write a blank cheque or voted yes because their party voted yes. Certainly no better than alot of peoples reasons for voting no.

Zube

Pal wrote: »

I know many people who voted yes because they wanted to do the opposite to SF.

That's not a stupid reason if SF's policies have been uniformly wrong for as long as you've been alive, and, oh look, they have. It's common sense.

silvine

Or maybe they just weren't bothered voting about an unispiring and relatively mundane piece of legislation.

Marcus.Aurelius

Constituency Tallies!!!!!!!
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0613/eulisbon1.html

fransgone

I spent considerable time considering my vote in the last number of
weeks and in light of who was representing the 'NO' side, I searched
hard for reasons to vote Yes. I felt both sides were certainly guilty
of scare-mongering.

While I agree that the EU needs some reform, the
main reason why I voted No was ultimately the enormous amount of text
in the treaty relating to security policy and 'common defence'.
Although Ireland retains a veto against these matters, it appears that
this treaty aims to push the EU towards becoming a superpower rather
than an economic union between member states.

This is hardly related to the reform of EU governing bodies?

Not an ignorant 'NO' voter.

marco_polo

draffodx wrote: »

I know just as many people who voted yes for just as stupid reasons

Were they as stupid as voting no to avoid their children getting conscripted into the army?

SkepticOne

Newstalk: No to Lisbon looks certain 11:43:36

It looks like Ireland's about to give the Lisbon Treaty an emphatic rejection as counting continues of the referendum vote.

Just 2 and a half hours after the boxes were opened, tallies suggest the YES campaign has lost.

It now looks like 39 of the country's 43 constituencies will reject the Lisbon Treaty.

And The only places to say YES will be An Taoiseach Brian Cowen's home turf of Laois/Offaly, and Dublin South, Dublin South East and Dun Laoghaire.

In some working class areas the NO's have won out by more than 8 to 1, and where middle class areas have accepted it, the margin is tiny.

sink

Zube wrote: »

That's not a stupid reason if SF's policies have been uniformly wrong for as long as you've been alive, and, oh look, they have. It's common sense.

And so voting no because FF are corrupt is logical?