lisbon is bridge too far for the average irish joe "to Get"

easyontheeye

simply, is it any surprise that we are going to see a no vote? sure the working class heavily outweigh the middle class. The government take 100% of the blame here. they should have been out in force in working class areas ramming the yes vote down peoples throats. the general consensus in working class areas was ...if you dont know vote no..sad but reality!

ShooterSF

easyontheeye wrote: »

simply, is it any surprise that we are going to see a no vote? sure the working class heavily outweigh the middle class. The government take 100% of the blame here. they should have been out in force in working class areas ramming the yes vote down peoples throats. the general consensus in working class areas was ...if you dont know vote no..sad but reality!

Ah yes dumb working classes you really have to shove it down their throats when will they learn to just follow the lead of the higher classes. Bull****.

justfortherecor

I'm also a yes voter but this sort of elitism from the OP is ridiculous and should not be touted as a reason for the impending failure of the Treaty.

In before the lock...

Jip

It's not just the OP spouting this crap, take a look in the main thread at the moment, almost 2 out of 3 people on the Yes side (this may or may not be fact !) are using the same argument.

johnnyq

Down with elitism

sink

I'm a yes voter anf i'm not using that argument. There were yes voters who didn't know what they were voting for either. My opinion is that people are not boithered to learn about what they are voting on equally.

ShooterSF

sink wrote: »

I'm a yes voter anf i'm not using that argument. There were yes voters who didn't know what they were voting for either. My opinion is that people are not boithered to learn about what they are voting on equally.

True sink I don't think anyone would accuse you of such but you can see why what the op said is rather insulting.

easyontheeye

i think we are insulting europe when we have 3 million on the electorate and more than 50% didn't bother their hole to get out and vote...thats shameful, nearly as much as voting no just because you dont know!

Jip

Stay on topic, get back to your point about the 'average irish joe' who don't get Lisbon, you're original point has nothing to do with those who didn't vote, or are you back tracking ?

jmayo

easyontheeye wrote: »

simply, is it any surprise that we are going to see a no vote? sure the working class heavily outweigh the middle class. The government take 100% of the blame here. they should have been out in force in working class areas ramming the yes vote down peoples throats. the general consensus in working class areas was ...if you dont know vote no..sad but reality!

Attidues like that give just give people another reason to vote NO.
Damm the masses. How dare they

TelePaul

While I don't agree with the OPs absolutism, I do think that a great many people - voters on both sides - didn't have access to information that they could readily understand. I think certain opposition parties were able to exploit this, but really it oulines a failure on the part of our current government.

Rb

easyontheeye wrote: »

simply, is it any surprise that we are going to see a no vote? sure the working class heavily outweigh the middle class. The government take 100% of the blame here. they should have been out in force in working class areas ramming the yes vote down peoples throats. the general consensus in working class areas was ...if you dont know vote no..sad but reality!

Oh and what should have been done about those going and voting yes just because they think we owe Europe something, or because they like Brian Cowens hair?

Bullshít. Quite funny that you're suggesting the working class are idiots when you can come out with such utter tripe.

lisbon_lions

"If you believe in freedom of speech, you believe in freedom of speech for views you don't like." Chomsky.

The people have spoken my friend, deal with it.

Sleepy

easyontheeye wrote: »

sure the working class heavily outweigh the middle class.

I thought we had a population which would economically be considered to be over 80% middle class?

ShooterSF

Any chance this thread could be closed, Im sure both sides can accept it's grossly insulting and ignorant!

dresden8

Sleepy wrote: »

I thought we had a population which would economically be considered to be over 80% middle class?

Money doesn't equal class obviously in the op's view.

Amberman

Considering that the architect of the European constitution said that the masses would be lead without their knowledge into accepting something that we dare not put in front of them openly, and that a European prime minister asked that the treaty be "unreadable", its no surprise that voters are

1. Sceptical.
2. Uninformed.
3. Confused.

It was designed that way and the masses just werent as easily led as our our "masters" had hoped.

thecaptain

You see mate, the average joe knows when he is being sold out.

djpbarry

thecaptain wrote: »

You see mate, the average joe knows when he is being sold out.

Is that so? Seems to me that a large number of "average joe's" didn't even know what they were voting on.

Amberman

djpbarry wrote: »

Is that so? Seems to me that a large number of "average joe's" didn't even know what they were voting on.

Ofcourse they didnt...thats the way it was designed to be.

djpbarry

Amberman wrote: »

Ofcourse they didnt...thats the way it was designed to be.

But hang on a tick; there were plenty of voters who WERE pretty informed and DID have a good idea what the treaty was about, even if they were in the minority (I'm basing this on the lengthy discussions that were had on this forum over the last number of weeks, as well as my own experience in the "real world").

So if SOME people can get their head around the treaty, surely everyone else (or even a majority of people) can?

GuanYin

Read the sticky at the top of the forum.

Anyone breaking the rules on this thread will be banned outright, no warnings, no questions.

gordon_gekko

the no side led by mr ganley in particular done a masterfull job in presenting this treaty as the biggest conspirosy theory of the century
you would think the eu was the matrix after listening to libertas and co

in reality there was much much less to this treaty than met the eye

stink_fist

gordon_gekko wrote: »

the no side led by mr ganley in particular done a masterfull job in presenting this treaty as the biggest conspirosy theory of the century
you would think the eu was the matrix after listening to libertas and co

in reality there was much much less to this treaty than met the eye

Shut up

Sparks

Speaking as someone who was born working class, pfffft.

djpbarry

Sparks wrote: »

Speaking as someone who was born working class, pfffft.

What's that got to do with anything?

Sparks

I'm refuting the opinion of the OP and agreeing with the second, third and fourth posters, and pointing out that I don't believe he knows what he's talking about, and simultaenously putting forward why I believe I do, all with one easy sound effect. Forgive me for being concise...

djpbarry

Sparks wrote: »

I'm refuting the opinion of the OP and agreeing with the second, third and fourth posters, and pointing out that I don't believe he knows what he's talking about, and simultaenously putting forward why I believe I do, all with one easy sound effect.

Ah, I see; very good.

Carry on.

johnnyq

Sparks wrote: »

I'm refuting the opinion of the OP and agreeing with the second, third and fourth posters, and pointing out that I don't believe he knows what he's talking about, and simultaenously putting forward why I believe I do, all with one easy sound effect. Forgive me for being concise...

It pains me to say it but i'm waiting for the papers across europe to say one of the following were the reasons we voted no (really hope i'm wrong here):

1) Ungrateful Irish
2) Dustin The Turkey
3) Stupid Irish couldn't *get* it

All of which are totally without justification but that generally doesn't stop people. All we need do is look at the scaremongering - both ways - to see this.

Sparks

The thing about the papers across Europe saying so is that the next day they're fish'n'chip wrappings.
Governments should have a somewhat longer view...

djpbarry

johnnyq wrote: »

3) Stupid Irish couldn't *get* it

In fairness, quite a number of 'No' voters on here have cited this as one of the main reasons for the 'No' vote.