How will the EU punish us now?

DishonestPikey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Do you not think we should send Gerry Adams, He has a lot more experience in Negotiation deals for the Irish People!!

Do they negotiate with terrorists?

BMH

O'Morris wrote: »

Libertas will be long forgotten about by the time that happens and so there will be no political capital to be gained from I-told-you-sos

Regardless of what people on the yes side say, there is still room for renegotiation over the commission. The results of this treaty give our politicians a mandate to take a firmer line in making sure Ireland has better representation in the commission.

The Commissioner is not supposed to "represent". There are 27 portfolios at the moment, each of varying importance, some just made up as the extra 10 countries joined. If you thought Commissioners represented national interest, wouldn't you think there'd be discussion over who got the portfolio for culture and sport and who got the portfolio for competition? Losing the commissioner is a non-issue.

tricky D

We'll be punished into voting on it again until we get it 'right' a la Nice 2/Mugabe

BMH

Rb wrote: »

Google.

Someone else posted an article on it recently, due to the amount of threads there are on it I'm not arsed searching for it to prove a well known point, so if you're interested have a look around Googles.

I sincerely hope that this is not the "article" you made reference to:
http://craobhgalgreine.blogspot.com/2008/03/eu-destroys-irish-fisheries-craobh-gal.html

sink

O'Morris wrote: »

Libertas will be long forgotten about by the time that happens and so there will be no political capital to be gained from I-told-you-sos

Regardless of what people on the yes side say, there is still room for renegotiation over the commission. The results of this treaty give our politicians a mandate to take a firmer line in making sure Ireland has better representation in the commission.

There is a case to be made for deputy commissioners alright. But I personally don't think it will be better than 18 full commissioners

drunkmonkey

DishonestPikey wrote: »

Do they negotiate with terrorists?

Gerry Adams has fought all his life to Unite Ireland & better the livelyhoods of of your fellow citizens still under British rule - If that makes him a Terriost, so be it.......I'm glad he tried!!

Tell me, what have you done today to make yourself feel proud?

genericgoon

There will be no 'punishment' but this does weaken a lot of the good will Ireland has built up, one of its most vital reasons for its successes when negotiating. This rejection has caused a subtle reduction in Ireland's influence and only time will tell how damaging that may be.

Rhonda9000

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Loads of scare tactics by the Yes Side, Forecasting Doom & Gloom..

What happens now, What punishment should we expect from the EU or were they false threats used to try and bully is into voting Yes?

Oh here we go..

Whatever your bar stool perceptions about unprecedented 'punishment' and 'bullying', European politics is based on a tradition of fairness and cooperation and the prosperity of the whole. Europe did not 'punish and bully-into-voting-yes' the French and Dutch voters of two years ago.

"What happens now?"
* Not entirely certain. If certainty is your thing, the yes vote would have been somewhat more appropriate.

* Croatian accession in '09 delayed. Constrained by previous Nice Treaty.

* The treaty may be renegotiated and ratification restarted. Yippee it took 2 years of toing and froing since the French and Dutch rejected the Constitution. In all honesty, this does not seem a viable option any longer.

* Ratification may continue in the other member states yet to ratify - half a billion other Europeans have better things to be doing with their time than waiting for 3 million Irish voters that for the most part appeared to be voting for selfish things wholly outside the treaty (e.g. egg-on-face-of-domestic-politicians "punishment"!)

Frame it as "punishment" all you like, the fact is the current European Union structure is outdated and inefficient now and needs to be reformed radically. The reform process has been deadlocked once again. Truly I hope the ratification of the Lisbon Treaty (as is) in other countries continues and we are consulted again later. The power clingers will come to understand that Ireland must relinquish it's cushy 20th century advantages at some point to make equal room at the table for those that are in the same position we were in '73.

Morpheus

We can be punished in more ways thatn you think, other countries will be very unhappy with us, less than 2 million people have just turned down a vote that affected 500 million people. To be honest, you should be punished by law in ireland for not voting if you are registered. Its a bloody disgrace.

Gerry Adams was involved with Sinn Fein who were the political wing of a terrorist group, they supported for many years that same terrorist group's use of violence and murder of innocent people as a way of achieving something which many people "down here" couldnt be ar$ed about.

As far as im concerned, The Republic of Ireland should have acquired nuclear weapons, evacuated every non terrorist from the north, hacked along the border with a giant saw, shoved north ireland off into the atlantic and when it was far enough out to sea, nuked the place and all of its terrorists, problem solved.

Oh yeah,

Ive a solution: Ireland... the 51st State

stakey

They're not going to punish us, perhaps they'll nicely ask us to leave the EU and payback all the grants and loans we got within the next 30 days though

PrivateEye

As the United Irishmen said
""It is the union of minds which ought to bind these nation together.”

We know how the rest of Europe felt about Lisbon. They demanded referendums.
Democracy was denied. People across Europe are delighted.

I'm proud to be Irish today, proud to be European, proud of my town and proud of my people for rejecting this Treaty. It was a bad deal for workers, and the cheek of people like IBEC, or the smoked salmon socialists of Labour in telling workers to vote Yes on this issue was a disgrace.

Everyone who voted No- you spoke for 450 Million voiceless people.

Maith Sibh. VOTEZ NON.

Rhonda9000

PrivateEye wrote: »

Everyone who voted No- you spoke for 450 Million voiceless people.

A bit of a stretch equating your view -itself introjected from a sanctimonious journalist- with that of 450 million others.

Those that voted at all spoke just as equally; dont forget that.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Morphéus wrote: »

Ive a solution: Ireland... the 51st State

ick..

BMH

PrivateEye wrote: »

We know how the rest of Europe felt about Lisbon. They demanded referendums.
Democracy was denied. People across Europe are delighted.

I'm proud to be Irish today, proud to be European, proud of my town and proud of my people for rejecting this Treaty. It was a bad deal for workers, and the cheek of people like IBEC, or the smoked salmon socialists of Labour in telling workers to vote Yes on this issue was a disgrace.

Everyone who voted No- you spoke for 450 Million voiceless people.

Maith Sibh. VOTEZ NON.

I saw very little resistance to the lack of referenda in other countries, they seemed to have the sense to leave it up to the people that understood. And, for like the 50th time, the EU couldn't force them to hold referenda, so it really isn't an issue to do with the treaty itself.
Labour are realistic left-wing socialists. The only main trade union to oppose Lisbon was Unite.

Donkey Kong

* Ratification may continue in the other member states yet to ratify - half a billion other Europeans have better things to be doing with their time than waiting for 3 million Irish voters that for the most part appeared to be voting for selfish things wholly outside the treaty (e.g. egg-on-face-of-domestic-politicians "punishment"!)

pointless comment really. the goverment has recieved positive results in latest polls. why are we left to determine the fate for all of EU.

menoscemo

Can people stop turning this into a fishing thread?

Answering the OP: What will likely happen depends on whether or not the countries left to ratify this treaty, go ahead and do so. This is proabably in doubt as our vote might give grounds to some parties to vote against the treaty in their own national parlaiments. Many countries have rules that if treaties like this are not voted through by a high percentage in parliament, then said country must hold a referendum. Then we will see what the people in said country have to say about this.
For one I can see gordon Brown having trouble getting Lisbon ratified in the UK...

Now assuming all other countries do ratify the treaty: What will happen is that the powers that be in Europe will probably offer some carrots to the irish government e.g. a full time commissioner, more voting rights etc, then instruct them to go back with this new deal to their people and hold another referendum, which will probably pass and the Irish people will feel they have got one over on Europe.

jaqian

Morphéus wrote: »

Ive a solution: Ireland... the 51st State

No thanks. Europe is far more democratic.

Scofflaw

What will likely happen depends on whether or not the countries left to ratify this treaty, go ahead and do so.

They are doing so. The Dutch are going ahead with their ratification, and the UK are going ahead with theirs.


cordially,
Scofflaw

menoscemo

Scofflaw wrote: »

They are doing so. The Dutch are going ahead with their ratification, and the UK are going ahead with theirs.


cordially,
Scofflaw

What I meant to say is wether they succeed in ratifying it. My mistake, sorry.

raido9

menoscemo wrote: »

Now assuming all other countries do ratify the treaty: What will happen is that the powers that be in Europe will probably offer some carrots to the irish government e.g. a full time commissioner, more voting rights etc, then instruct them to go back with this new deal to their people and hold another referendum, which will probably pass and the Irish people will feel they have got one over on Europe.

Surely if they do this they will have to ratify the treaty in other countries again, as it woul be a different treaty to the one they agreed on.

menoscemo

raido9 wrote: »

Surely if they do this they will have to ratify the treaty in other countries again, as it woul be a different treaty to the one they agreed on.

No, they didn't have to do that with Nice 2 did they?

Zube

raido9 wrote: »

Surely if they do this they will have to ratify the treaty in other countries again, as it woul be a different treaty to the one they agreed on.

See Nice II.

raido9

Touche

AARRRGH

If the EU punish us or ignore our no vote, it will show they have no respect for democracy or the citizens of Europe.

They are supposed to represent us. I think they have lost sight of that fact.

glaston

Ireland should be fcuked out of the EU, regress back to the bad old days and then maybe these NO commie fcuks would be contented!
Ireland = cripple of Europe.

VoidStarNull

dublindude wrote: »

If the EU punish us or ignore our no vote, it will show they have no respect for democracy or the citizens of Europe.

They are supposed to represent us. I think they have lost sight of that fact.

The governments of other member states do not represent the Irish people.

They negotiate with our government on behalf of their own citizens.

There is of course no question of the "EU" punishing us. The question is, what will the other member states do?

AARRRGH

VoidStarNull wrote: »

The governments of other member states do not represent the Irish people.

Come on, no need to be rude. Obviously I'm talking about the EU as in the European Commission etc. I'm not talking about the German or French Governments.

PrivateEye

Actually, I respect the point made by somebody above that even those of us who decided to vote Yes played a part in democracy yesterday. The fact only 3 million out of nearly 500 million had a say is, I feel, one of the reasons the Treaty failed- but to the HALF of us who did bother casting a vote yesterday, fair play. Anyone who showed up at a polling station, to support oppose or even cancel (becayse this beats sitting at home and doing nothing) played a role in European democracy yesterday. Let the people be heard and all that.

I firmly believe in a 'one citizen, one vote' Europe, this Treaty would be trashed.....but that's another days debate.

so as said above- everyone who came out yesterday, fair play.

**off to have a wash, feel dirty about being on the same side as Deco Ganley
http://i26.tinypic.com/2mn41k.jpg