Czech this out: Vaclav Klaus says Treaty project is over

gaf1983

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/czechrepublic/2128391/EU-referendum-Czech-president-says-Lisbon-Treaty-project-is-over.html

Czech president Vaclav Klaus, who is supported by the country's largest political party, called the Irish referendum vote a "victory of freedom and reason" and said "ratification cannot continue".

It would be interesting if the Czech Republic didn't ratify it. I really can't see the Lisbon Treaty project being abandoned though even if the Czechs didn't ratify it.

Red Alert

Both us and the Czech republic are full members of the EU. We have the same right to accept or reject things as France and Holland did.

DenMan

Now we are starting to get somewhere. Ireland, as a nation and European Member has campaigned for a more integrated and democratic Europe which it is the people who build a better society.

Europe as a bloc has to address many issues that the Irish people feel has not been discussed. What Nations leader advises the people to vote NO if they are unsure about the Treaty.

The co-operation and friendship between members of the European Union needs to be addressed. Ireland for one has been at the forefront of promoting these changes. Now it is time to go about implementing those policies in a fair and unified way. Not forcing them upon people in a manner in which they do not understand or comprehend the decisions being made on their behalf. One Europe, one voice. The people, all 500 million of us not a select few on an international council not elected by the public but rather their parliaments.

You should read The Lisbon Treaty and think of all of the possible scenarios that could arise as a result of it. Words can have many meanings and could also be implemented in so many different ways and interpreted differently by those who have the power to make those changes. Think before you blink or look before you leap. Very appropriate words.

is_that_so

Klaus is an admitted Eurosceptic so anything he says should be taken with a pinch of salt and the story came from "The Torygraph" a noted anti-EU and occasionally anti-Irish organ.

limklad

is_that_so wrote: »

Klaus is an admitted Eurosceptic so anything he says should be taken with a pinch of salt and the story came from "The Torygraph" a noted anti-EU and occasionally anti-Irish organ.

I would counter that and say that comments from other European politicians and newspapers outside Ireland who want to have our sovereign constitution changed, so we cannot vote gain in any future European treaty are far worst and very undemocratic and that fly in the face of a so call democratic Europe that they are claiming. We do not have a right to change their sovereign constitutions so why should we give them the right to change ours. I will not surrender the format of governance or do anything to undermine the democratic principles of the people. Our constitution although not perfect is our protection. Leaders of Democratic countries in the past have become dictators in the past by changing democratic countries laws of governance in parliaments (sometimes under the gun, extortions or fooled). It may take small steps to undermine a country constitution by stealth. Normally I do not talk politics but History teaches me to be wary of those who want to bypass laws to get their aims or use scare tactics which was in the Lisbon Treaty campaign by the government.
They Europe (France-Sarkozy/Germany-Merkel) could turn around and say “Do what we say OR ELSE”. These are testing times for them and I will be looking closely at their reactions when Cowen meets with them and Sarkozy presidency of the EU council for the next six months. I believe Our “NO” vote will tests our EU partners true co-operation and respect for other sovereign states.
Our Politicians uses fear about the collapse of the EU under the existing rules. They knew about the additional accessions countries after all that why we had the “NICE treaty” to sort out that issue. They (the Politicians) are using scare tactics and mongering to get more power within the EU for a Superstate by stealth.

is_that_so

limklad wrote: »

I would counter that and say that comments from other European politicians and newspapers outside Ireland who want to have our sovereign constitution changed, so we cannot vote gain in any future European treaty are far worst and very undemocratic and that fly in the face of a so call democratic Europe that they are claiming. We do not have a right to change their sovereign constitutions so why should we give them the right to change ours. I will not surrender the format of governance or do anything to undermine the democratic principles of the people. Our constitution although not perfect is our protection. Leaders of Democratic countries in the past have become dictators in the past by changing democratic countries laws of governance in parliaments (sometimes under the gun, extortions or fooled). It may take small steps to undermine a country constitution by stealth. Normally I do not talk politics but History teaches me to be wary of those who want to bypass laws to get their aims or use scare tactics which was in the Lisbon Treaty campaign by the government.
They Europe (France-Sarkozy/Germany-Merkel) could turn around and say “Do what we say OR ELSE”. These are testing times for them and I will be looking closely at their reactions when Cowen meets with them and Sarkozy presidency of the EU council for the next six months. I believe Our “NO” vote will tests our EU partners true co-operation and respect for other sovereign states.
Our Politicians uses fear about the collapse of the EU under the existing rules. They knew about the additional accessions countries after all that why we had the “NICE treaty” to sort out that issue. They (the Politicians) are using scare tactics and mongering to get more power within the EU for a Superstate by stealth.

Again I will agree to disagree on Klaus. Merkel and Sarkozy won't much care. She helped get the Treaty signed last December and France have the Presidency from next month. German comments and the restrained French ones are reasonable indications of what they think really think. This is a problem and it needs fixing.

ixtlan

limklad wrote: »

Leaders of Democratic countries in the past have become dictators in the past by changing democratic countries laws of governance in parliaments (sometimes under the gun, extortions or fooled).

That's true, but I cannot resist adding that dictators have also arisen by manipulating the public into overzealous nationalism and paranoia. This is why they can't have referendums in Germany.

Ix

limklad

ixtlan wrote: »

That's true, but I cannot resist adding that dictators have also arisen by manipulating the public into overzealous nationalism and paranoia. This is why they can't have referendums in Germany.

Ix

Please read the history of Hitler Rise to power. He fooled elected officals and use present conditions of the day to rise to power. There was no referendum of the people for him to gain a dictator type power. He use propaganda and fear to get his way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler

and yet after their long history the German government want a more Undemocratic EU.