Intruder Alarm Questions and Answers

altor

dsane1 wrote: »

Got it programmed ,thanks altor

your welcome dsane1,
any more problems let us know..

dsane1

Hi back again !
I have a zone at the rear of the house ,on it i have a sliding patio door (shock sensor and internal reed switch ).
A back door (shock and internal reed) .
A kitchen window about 4 foot wide (shock and internal reed on one opening and just a reed switch on the other opening )
These are on the one zone .
I am getting a false alarm frequently (gross) on this zone.
I have changed the gross level to 9 but still get it about every 2 to 3 days . I'm fairly sure the contacts are close enough to each other too .
System is about 6yrs installed and im certain its a false alarm as it happens when programmed on chime when im in the house .
Anything i can do myself or do i need an expert ? Thanks in advance .

2011

I'm fairly sure the contacts are close enough to each other too .

The contacts do not ahve a gross attack setting. This is an inertia shock sensor issue. It could be a faulty sensor, or a loose rattely door.

dsane1

Thanks for the reply ,but when i open the window with just the contacts on it ,it shows (gross ) on the panel if the alarm is set .I have checked all doors and windows ,no rattles ,on we go .!

2011

Perhaps this is from the "bang" of you opening the window. Link out the contact part and see what happens.

KoolKid

Regardless of the gross setting this could still be either a faulty sensor or a faulty contact.
The best & quickest way to find this problem is with a multi meter.
Its been posted here lot of times but here it is again to save you the search.
>Get a lenght of cable long enough to reach from the panel to all the points on that zone
>Disconnect the zone from the panel & connect it to on end of the cable.
>Connect the other end to your multi meter & set resistence <200 ohms.
>With all windows & door closed make a not of the resistence.
>Test each device individually. Tapping every sensor & opening & closing every contact a number of times.
> The reading should always return to the original value.
> Any significant increase is a faulty device. If you find one close that off & move on to the next device.(There may be more than one)
Hope this helps.

altor

dsane1 wrote: »

Thanks for the reply ,but when i open the window with just the contacts on it ,it shows (gross ) on the panel if the alarm is set .I have checked all doors and windows ,no rattles ,on we go .!

Hi dsane1,
i would say it is a faulty sensor on the back loop. the contacts are looped through the shock sensors but for it to come up as a gross the contact or shock has to close straight away after the alarm activates so would not think it has anything to do with the contacts.
hope this helps..

2011

i would say it is a faulty sensor on the back loop. the contacts are looped through the shock sensors but for it to come up as a gross the contact or shock has to close straight away after the alarm activates so would not think it has anything to do with the contacts.

I would think so too, but if you want to know for sure simply link out the reed switch. If the problem persists then you know that the problem is with the shock sensor part, simple!

KoolKid

Do the test with the metre the way I described above. You could be second guessing your self forever on this.
A faulty contact can still show up as gross attack.

g.quagmire

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=97658

Any one any comments on using this device for alarm monitoring in a very fussy customers house(no way can I run a cable). Cant think of any reason it wouldn't work myself. If I was to drop the transmitter unit into the stud wall behind socket and phone point in hall and hard wire them in and put the receiver in the panel, should be ok right??

Opinions please.

Tim M-U

g.quagmire wrote: »

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=97658

Any one any comments on using this device for alarm monitoring in a very fussy customers house(no way can I run a cable). Cant think of any reason it wouldn't work myself. If I was to drop the transmitter unit into the stud wall behind socket and phone point in hall and hard wire them in and put the receiver in the panel, should be ok right??

Opinions please.

no..

as far as i can see, that has to be connected to the
mains power supply... so say the power is down, and the alarm activated, it wouldn't be able to contact the monitoring station because the device wouldn't be powered.

-
or just use a GSM communitor(but others say its not a good idea)

g.quagmire

Tim M-U wrote: »

no..

as far as i can see, that has to be connected to the
mains power supply... so say the power is down, and the alarm activated, it wouldn't be able to contact the monitoring station because the device wouldn't be powered.

-
or just use a GSM communitor(but others say its not a good idea)

Ya cheers, new there was something stopping me just couldn't think of it. Pretty obvious now u say it.

2011

The other issue is that you would not have line siezure.

altor

as far as i can see, that has to be connected to the
mains power supply... so say the power is down, and the alarm activated, it wouldn't be able to contact the monitoring station because the device wouldn't be powered.

The other issue is that you would not have line siezure.


they are two very good points by tim and 2011. a gsm is your only option without running the phoneline.. powered by the alarm in the event the power is off and line priority.
reading up on it there and it seems they can cause interference with the frequency they use..

2011

Thanks altor, I bow to your superior alarm knowledge.

dsane1

altor wrote: »

Hi dsane1,
i would say it is a faulty sensor on the back loop. the contacts are looped through the shock sensors but for it to come up as a gross the contact or shock has to close straight away after the alarm activates so would not think it has anything to do with the contacts.
hope this helps..

Hi again ,i did a walk test on the system and i have a dodgy sensor on the patio door . A bare tip sets it off. I opened it ,nothing obvious wrong ,wires connected etc. Spring seems ok too. I tried it set at 1 for pulse and gross and set at 9 also but the result is the same .
There are 4 wires in the connector block ,can i bridge out any to take the shock sensor out but allow the reed switch to operate until i get a new sensor and how much is a sensor . Thanks for the help !

altor

dsane1 wrote: »

Hi again ,i did a walk test on the system and i have a dodgy sensor on the patio door . A bare tip sets it off. I opened it ,nothing obvious wrong ,wires connected etc. Spring seems ok too. I tried it set at 1 for pulse and gross and set at 9 also but the result is the same .
There are 4 wires in the connector block ,can i bridge out any to take the shock sensor out but allow the reed switch to operate until i get a new sensor and how much is a sensor . Thanks for the help !

Hi Dsane1,
a proper test needs to be done to determin if that is the faulty sensor. the walk test as such wont tell you much, but you can loop it out and see if that works, hopefully it is the faulty sensor and its only a mater of replacing it.

1) contact
2) shock " not used "
3) tamper
4) tamper
5) shock " not used "
6) contact

one and two are looped so you have to take the loop out of one and two. the middle two are for the tamper so leave them as they are. take one cable from five and put it in one.
what this does is makes it a contact instead of a mc, cutting out the shock part of the sensor.. prices very so shop around when buying your sensors..
hope this helps, any problems let us know..

KoolKid

Pulse should be set to about 5, not 1.
You need to measure the resistence on that zone to correctly identify whats faulty.
A walk test will never tell you this. Also bear in mine there may be more than one device faulty.

LeperKing

Folks, I posted a thread about this, but it looks like it would be more appropriate to post the question here as it involves an unusual use of the alarm zones. Thanks.

**Original Post**
Currently have a CS350 alarm system, and a gas boiler with digital 5+2 control. Is there any way to have a wire from the CS350 panel that that will control a relay of some sort to turn off the heating if a window/door is opened? Is there any signal that could be used off the alarm board to control that?

I am open to upgrading the panel if necessary, as I'm getting alot done on the house at the moment.

Thanks,
LK.

KoolKid

Interesting application.
Do you want any zone or a particular zone.
For a particular zone eg 1 door. The easiest way would be to fit an extra contact , programme the zone as technical (Will require a panel upgrade, Id recommend SigNet 100) Programme output as technical & trigger a mains relay to give or take power to the boiler.

If you want if any zone is open its complicated but could be done on a CS350 as follows.
Required 7 12vdc relays (with 2 switched contacts ) (6 (or how many zones you want to anaylze) low voltage contacts & 1 to switch mains )
Give each relay a permanent 12v +
Send a permanent - down each zone & return to - coil of that relay.(EOLs must be removed) Wire 1 NC contact to the zone input with required single or duel resistors.
Repeat for all zones required.
Take the second NC relay from each relay & wire them in series. Run 12 - into that pair to - on relay to switch mains. Connect permanent + to that relay.
Now when all zones are closed This relay will be energised & NO contacts will be closed.
Wire mains supply to your heating via this relay (ensure rating is sufficiant)

KoolKid

Or an easier method (but more expensive) would be to fit a SigNet 200 or 300 and use X10 features to control it.

LeperKing

koolkid wrote: »

Or an easier method (but more expensive) would be to fit a SigNet 200 or 300 and use X10 features to control it.

The X10 functionality (and web access) looked like interesting features from the signet products. Is it documented that alarm zone(s) status could control X10 peripherals? Do I need to make sure only inertia and contact sensors are on the zones? (Keep PIR, firealarm etc. seperate).

To answer your orignal question, it would be across all exterior doors and windows of the house which is probably across multilple zones, excluding PIRs. The more I think about it there may need to be a timed event, ie if a window/door is opened for more than 10 minutes then the boiler is turned off. I'm not sure if X10 can do that?

Thanks,
LK.

KoolKid

In conjunction with calander and clock any zone (or group of zones) can switch X10 devices.
eg an outside light could be set to switch if its after 8pm & both back door & PiR activates.

Hell Toupee

Can anyone advise what I should expect to pay to have the following added to an existing alarm system:

An external sliding door
A window with two openings
Two velux windows

In Dublin

altor

Hell Toupee wrote: »

Can anyone advise what I should expect to pay to have the following added to an existing alarm system:

An external sliding door
A window with two openings
Two velux windows

In Dublin

what type of a system do you have ?

Hell Toupee

It's quite old - the keypad says Homeguard - Scopetronic

altor

Hell Toupee wrote: »

It's quite old - the keypad says Homeguard - Scopetronic

About €150 if the sensors are cabled for..

PureBred

Just a quick question. Will cat 5 do for cable to sensors etc for an alarm system?

altor

ricfeen wrote: »

Just a quick question. Will cat 5 do for cable to sensors etc for an alarm system?

It is not recommended by the manufacture to be used for sensors on alarms.

2011

Will cat 5 do for cable to sensors etc for an alarm system?

It is possible to use them, but they are not ideal. A CAT5 cable has 4 twisted pairs, so 8 cores.

Inertia shock sensors, contacts and MCs use a maximum of 4 cores and PIR (motion) detectors use a maximum of 6 cores. A CAT5 will be a more bulky cable, therefore harder to staple. The cores are solid rather than stranded like alarm cable, so they sometimes break when terminated. With a PIR they would not be too bad as there is plenty of space inside the detector and ofetn the detector will cover the cable 100% so it will look just the same.

Alarm cable can be bought in white or brown (can match most windows) and CAT5 tends to be grey. Alarm cable is also cheaper.

If the cables are alreay in and they are CAT5s they will work, it will just be a bit harder to connect. Perhaps you could sleeve them where they will be seen just to make it look better.