Intruder Alarm Questions and Answers

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

not all do, monitoring require a internal pir to verifie that someone is in the premises before the guards are called since 2006. most will request you install 2 to cover different areas in the premises..

Altor you seem a little confused with what you are trying to get across here. To clarify....
All CS250s can report verified alarms by using the contact ID Format.
The only requirement for verified alarm by monitoring stations is activation of 2 seperate zones.To be clear this is all that is required for Garda response.While a PiR is ideal it is NOT a requirement by any monitoring station or the Guards. A monitoring station will never get involved in any way with what is required in an installation.
Whoever is giving you this information is misguiding you.
I hope this clarifys things for you.:)

altor

hi koolkid, thanks for your responce. yes all cs250 can report verified alarms by using id format but not in fast format, as some monitoring stations use. older panels need to be flashed to upgrade the sofeware on them and take out some of the bugs on the older panels version 1.4 - 1.6 more so.. you are right that it is not a requirement of the guards or some monitoring stations to have pirs installed but monitoring stations that i have worked with do so i dont think my information was misguiding. in my own opinion they should be required as they pick up on intruders inside the premises, giving a verified signal, or a second actavation. if some one breaks in a back door and leaves the same way they woud still only have one activation on the system. anyway thanks for your input koolkid..

Cadzer

koolkid wrote: »

The only requirement for verified alarm by monitoring stations is activation of 2 seperate zones.To be clear this is all that is required for Garda response.:)

This is not technicaly true. The standards state that a verified alarm is sent to a CS after a second activation type. Therefore if you have a shock sensor and a contact on a zone and the zone see a pulse or gross on a zone that is one activation and then the panel see a alarm ie the contact open it will send a verified alarm to the CS.

KoolKid

You are correct provoiding the panel can distinguish between the 2 for reporting purposes.

bibibobo

i bought a hkc 812 panel and all other pieces with the intention of installing my own alarm but just don't have the time to complete the job. Current situation is that all windows and doors are wired with contact and shock sensors. I walk tested this and all is ok. Keypad is installed and panel has its own location. Text card is installed and working fine. What i now need is for someone to quote me to complete the install which consists of putting bell box up on outer wall (wiring is in attic ready to go), testing system for correct to IS/EN standard and certifying system so i can get home insurance discount (installer needs to be psa registered). Also the panel battery needs to be replaced with new as keypad is showing a fault. Importantly i must have the panel engineers code as its my alarm and i like tinkering with diy n stuff. Can anybody recommend am installer that would finalise the install and certify the work? B

KoolKid

Speaking for myself, I would not be willing to certfiy a job to EN if the user has engineer access. You are risking voiding your insurance here.

2011

I dont think you will have any problems getting the system certed. Alarm companies are always looking for buisness. If they are not happy with an aspect they will insist on changing it. The issue will be you wanting a cert and the engineer code!! Koolkids remark (below) will be what all good alarm companies will say, and you cant blame them.

Where would it leave an alarm company if your "tinkering" resulted in the alarm not functioning when it should??

Speaking for myself, I would not be willing to certfiy a job to EN if the user has engineer access.

KoolKid

2011 wrote: »

Where would it leave an alarm company if your "tinkering" resulted in the alarm not functioning when it should??

It would leave the alarm company in a very difficult situation for a number of reasons.
First off if the installation were to come up for inspection & failed to conform to EN50131 because of changes the customer made.
Secondly the customers insurance would be null & void in the event of a claim if he policy is based on haveing an alarm system to EN50131.
Thirdly no decent professional is going to put their name to something that is going to be tinkered with.
I really dont understand peoples obsession with engineer codes.
Do people like this spend their life looking for engineer codes for every applience in their house or what??

My advice is get the job done professionally & let the system do what its supposed to do, protect your property & your family.
If you want something to play with buy a gadget of some sort.

bibibobo

koolkid wrote: »

It would leave the alarm company in a very difficult situation for a number of reasons.
First off if the installation were to come up for inspection & failed to conform to EN50131 because of changes the customer made.
Secondly the customers insurance would be null & void in the event of a claim if he policy is based on haveing an alarm system to EN50131.
Thirdly no decent professional is going to put their name to something that is going to be tinkered with.
I really dont understand peoples obsession with engineer codes.
Do people like this spend their life looking for engineer codes for every applience in their house or what??

My advice is get the job done professionally & let the system do what its supposed to do, protect your property & your family.
If you want something to play with buy a gadget of some sort.

- surely I am entitled to the engineer code as it is my alarm. Also, I do not wish to be locked to one company who may go out of business. Is there a requirement in EN50131 for the engineer code to be locked away from the customer? I may, for example wish to use my engineer code to access the digitext card at a later date to modify some of the text features, SMS centre and mobiles contacted. If the system was locked then I would have to call out the 'engineer' at cost to program these settings which I am perfectly able to do myself.

- Regarding if the alarm 'came up for inspection' I am not sure what exactly is meant by this. I presume you mean someone could call to my door from a body such as NSAI or PSA to inspect the installation to ensure the engineers work is up to scratch. If this was the case then I wouldn't let then in unless it suited me.

KoolKid

bibibobo wrote: »

- surely I am entitled to the engineer code as it is my alarm.

No you aren't . That is a myth. Try going to the makers of all the other appliences in your home with the same argument & see what they say to you.Engineer access is restricted to protect programming required for the correct operation of the system.

bibibobo wrote: »

-Also, I do not wish to be locked to one company who may go out of business.

How will you be locked to one company?
Any licenced alarm company can maintain your alarm.

bibibobo wrote: »

- Is there a requirement in EN50131 for the engineer code to be locked away from the customer? I may, for example wish to use my engineer code to access the digitext card at a later date to modify some of the text features, SMS centre and mobiles contacted.

There are a lot of requirements for a system to conform to EN50131.
Many of these requirements could be changed in the engineer menu.
Anything the user would need to change would be available via user or manager menus.

bibibobo wrote: »

If the system was locked then I would have to call out the 'engineer' at cost to program these settings which I am perfectly able to do myself.

But an engineer doing it will not void your insurance.
DIY your alarm by all means. I dont have a problem with that.But if you do don't present a cert to your insurance company.
Asking someone to certify your alarm which you are going to alter is unacceptable in my book.

bibibobo wrote: »

-
- Regarding if the alarm 'came up for inspection' I am not sure what exactly is meant by this. I presume you mean someone could call to my door from a body such as NSAI or PSA to inspect the installation to ensure the engineers work is up to scratch. If this was the case then I wouldn't let then in unless it suited me.

How easy it all is ...:rolleyes:
The simple fact of the matter is I doubt any reputable company is going to agree to what you want. Even if you do find some dogdy operator to do this , you are voiding your home insurance the minute your system stops conforming to EN50131. You are happy to risk your home being destroyed & not getting a penny just because you like to tinker with your alarm??
It beggers belief. If you want to tinker why not just buy a panel & a keypad & make it up on a bench??

2011

Koolkid I think you misread my post.
I was agreeing with your position 100%.

KoolKid

2011 wrote: »

Koolkid I think you misread my post.
I was agreeing with your position 100%.

No I didn't. I wasn't arguing with you:D ,I was posting in reply to bibibobo .

Stoner

I have to agree with the OP in some regards, a customer should in my opinion be able to request that their code is given to another licensed security company, so that they can go and use any company they want to service or modify it afterwords. Is this the case? I know that I have been stonewalled when I made similar requests on behalf of customers in the past after they tried and failed, I was told that the codes were universal and not dedicated to a customer so giving another company access to the codes would impact on other customers installations. It's a fair point I guess, but why use the same codes all the time?

The simple fact is that your average Joe is restricted by companies holding onto this information as it makes the job more difficult for another company to come in and work on a system without this code, there is more work involved for the other company, if they had the code they could make some simple changes to allow for say something like a new patio door.

I'm not suggesting that unlicensed people work on alarms, I'm saying that a company holding information that in some way financially restricts a customer so as to create a situation where that same company has some financial advantage over other licensed installers.

Regardless of what way you look at it having the engineering code is an advantage..

I also understand that having the same engineering code is handy for many installers, so handing over a code to a system would open up other systems to other companies. However using a different engineering code and storing the results would solve this, it just takes a little more planning, I know that many operate a customer unique code system, but many don't.

This information should be handed over to another security company at the customer request IMHO. This way the customer can't mess with the system, but they can use any security company they want.

Having said that there is nothing stopping an average Joe from doing a factory reset on the whole alarm, but as noted above with no cert the alarm will not satisfy insurance company terms and conditions.

2011

I have to agree with the OP in some regards, a customer should in my opinion be able to request that their code is given to another licensed security company, so that they can go and use any company they want to service or modify it afterwords

An other company can simply factory reset the panel, problem solved.

if they had the code they could make some simple changes to allow for say something like a new patio door.

In general it is possible to make a modification such as this without having the engineer code anyway.

Regardless of what way you look at it having the engineering code is an advantage..

Only a small advantage. A factory reset should only take a few minutes.

This information should be handed over to another security company at the customer request IMHO

+ 1

Tim M-U

have you considered getting a license to install an alarm. I think this possible. And on another fourm, they said its easy and quick to get one. I dont want to garentee anything though.

Tim M-U

gsxr1 wrote: »

My home is wired with 4 core alarm wire to all the windows and doors.

I have a sounder and strobe already wired in by the over eager eletriction on the site 2 years ago.

After reading about it. I am going to attempt my own hardwire instalation.



All I need it is:

The Control unit.
Keypad,
8 reed switches.
2 PIR sensors.

battery for control unit


My question at this time is:

With a four cour wire as opposed to a 6core wire. Am I restricted to what type of control unit?

I was looking at this system . I have seen them as cheap as £35 .
http://www.sdfirealarms.co.uk/shop/adeaccentaminigen4intruderpanelwithlcdkeypad-p-367.html

I think I can do the whole lot for under 100euro. Electrician quoted 750.

so it worth a go on my own.

Have a look at meteor electrictal. (http://www.meteorelectrical.com/) .

The cost of an alarm is €154.26 and comes with the following:

· 1 x ST800L (8 zone) panel with separate keypad
· 4 x 1S215T (passive infra red sensors)
· 1 x AG3/WS or AG6MB bell unit (live complete bell units)
· 1 x AG3/WB-DIJM or AG6/WS-DUM (dummy sounder)
· 1 x GATI22A (12V Gallery)
· 4 x EMPS8S/W (door surface contacts)
· 1 x Spur/Pattress (complete spur/pattress)
· 1 x lOOm six core cable (cable for security package)
· 1x easy to use instructions

-

Now remember: contacts on detect things opening, and I think its not worth using them on windows and use the pirs (if possible).

KoolKid

Lots of paperwork & checks involved (as well as cheques)
Its hard work on a one man operation

KoolKid

Tim M-U wrote: »

Now remember: contacts on detect things opening, and I think its not worth using them on windows and use the pirs (if possible).

PiRs only detect someone after they have gained entry. Why would you recommend that?

Phoenix3

Caan somebody oblige by telling me the ratings for replacement battery for the Aritech 450.I don't want to open the panel until I am installing the new one.

Many thanks.

fred funk }{

Get a 7Amp 12VDC from any electrical wholesalers. When you open the panel the alarm will sound, enter your code to turn off.

Pete67

If you have the engineer code, enter it and put the panel in maintenance mode. Then you can open the panel without the tamper switch triggering the alarm. Change the battery, close up the panel, and then exit engineer mode on the keypad.

You should also change the battery in the external bell.

KoolKid

There is no changeable battery in the external bell..

c.a.r.l

Hi All,
Is there a signal output of approx 6 or 12 volts when the alarm is triggered?
I want to pull in a contactor which will switch on a few lights in the event of same.

fred funk }{

The bell outputs will switch 12V- when activated and take your positive from the Aux power. Or if you had the engineer code you code programme a dedicated output for your contactor.

c.a.r.l

Hi Fred Funk,
Thanks for that. I presume it will be dc from the panel to the bell?
Thanks again.
Carl

2011

Thanks for that. I presume it will be dc from the panel to the bell?

Yes. So make sure the coil of your relay is rated for 12V d.c.

c.a.r.l

Thanks,
Yes will do. I need all the zones for windows and doors so this is a great option to have.
Thanks a million.
Carl

ellade3

Hi all, i just joined today so hope i do this right, sorry in advance if not.
Hope someone will be a ble to help or just reassure me. Ok so, I live in a rented house for the last 2 years which has a securewatch hkc alarm. When we moved in 1st i got the code from the landlord but never got round to using it properly but thought i knew the code. Today i got it into my head that its silly to have an alarm and not use it so decided to try set it, yes as you've guessed i couldnt remember the code so after i tried the 3rd code the red light on the panel came on and its now flashing outside but not making any noise. My landlord is on honeymoon so cant get the code from him. Is there any way to fix this in the meantime or at least since its not ringing now is it likely to before i can get the code?
thanks for any help

altor

ellade3 wrote: »

Is there any way to fix this in the meantime or at least since its not ringing now is it likely to before i can get the code?
thanks for any help

you just need to put the code in when you get the code off the landlord. this will reset the red light flashing on the keypad and the flashing light outside, you could default the panel and set up a new code if he did not know it but try getting the code first.. hope this helps :-)

KoolKid

The strobe is flashing outside but no internal siren going off?
You need to get this system serviced anyway by the sounds of it.
At that time you could get it defaulted & get new codes set up.