Metallica - Death Magnetic.

Stev_o

ven0m wrote: »

Lars Ulrich is over 40 - do you HONESTLY expect him to play like he did at 18 with those drum figures at those speeds still?

It's not like Ringo Star or Charlie from the Stones where they had pedestrian drum lines that are easy to play 20-30 years later ....

People need to get off the lars-drumbashing. You try be a drummer playing some of those drumlines after 25 years & on the regularity he does on the road for several hours a night & see how your body stands up to it?

Fo those who don't know - your average 'rock' drummer in a nite's show burns the same calories as a marathon runner ..... now put that into perspective & I can't believe I'm saying this (cos Lars bugs me stupid with his well uh ya know uhhhh crap!) - but people need to lay off Lars & his drumming & realise he is getting older & NOT 18 any more.

*Facepalm* I know iv gone through this with you earlier in thread As i said i wish the Lars of 1989 was frozen then thawed off for the recording of this album as that was the best point in his career of drumming!

Its nothing to do with me saying oh Lars is sh1t and should give up its to do with oh this album has everything going for it if only Lars was 20 again and he would have put in some great drum lines. I know he's 40 i know he's not going to go mad and i know he's doing his best to get back on track with his drumming!

Mean come on would you agree that you'd love to have the drumming from AJFA or TBA in this album to make it perfect? Thats the point im getting at im not trying to attack Lars

Het-Field

Drumming at a rate he was in 1989 is just not tenable. He was 25 and was in the prime of his life. No family commitments, no work commitment. He had music and that was it.

If you watch him at a live show he still puts on something amazing !!! He is so energetic. However, James has got to be commended. Plus Kirk can still shread a a blue streak live while Rob is, well, Rob !!

I dont know how anybody can calll Justice a snoozefest. No Offence intended towards the poster who said this. However, Blackened, Justice, Eye, One, Harvester, and Dyers Eve are some of metallica's best

Mental Mickey

Stev_o wrote: »

*Facepalm* I know iv gone through this with you earlier in thread As i said i wish the Lars of 1989 was frozen then thawed off for the recording of this album as that was the best point in his career of drumming!

Its nothing to do with me saying oh Lars is sh1t and should give up its to do with oh this album has everything going for it if only Lars was 20 again and he would have put in some great drum lines. I know he's 40 i know he's not going to go mad and i know he's doing his best to get back on track with his drumming!

Mean come on would you agree that you'd love to have the drumming from AJFA or TBA in this album to make it perfect? Thats the point im getting at im not trying to attack Lars

*FACEPALM*. Why do people kep going back to the AJFA/MOP albums? Why would you have drumming like AJFA/MOP on this album? That's a ridiculous statement! This album has NOTHING to do with those records. They are not trying to re-create that sound!?? Just in case you haven't noticed - this is an entirely different album. The drumming that Lars does on this album(which I haven't heard yet)was done to fit the songs. He ain't gonna throw in double bass fills all over the place, just to please the fans. I'm really looking forward to Friday week, when I get my hands on this monster.

ven0m

Stev_o wrote: »

*Facepalm* I know iv gone through this with you earlier in thread As i said i wish the Lars of 1989 was frozen then thawed off for the recording of this album as that was the best point in his career of drumming!

Its nothing to do with me saying oh Lars is sh1t and should give up its to do with oh this album has everything going for it if only Lars was 20 again and he would have put in some great drum lines. I know he's 40 i know he's not going to go mad and i know he's doing his best to get back on track with his drumming!

Mean come on would you agree that you'd love to have the drumming from AJFA or TBA in this album to make it perfect? Thats the point im getting at im not trying to attack Lars

Actually, I have zero problems with any drum lines on DM .... my bone of contention is the still very hidden bass .... or some of Kirk's very VERY odd choice of solo-phrasing. But none of it detracts from how much I really love the **** out of this album, because at my age now - this is the kinda Metallica I want to hear NOW.

p.s. I know ur not "bashing" per-se, but people really in general need to realise this is a band fast approaching the 50's in age. Metallica is the only rock band out there that ever comes up against the huge walls of expectations for new material.

Aerosmith don't face this problem. Neither does Ozzy, or Bon Jovi, or even Motley Crue with that recent album. People are far too ideal in their assessment of Metallica & 'what they should be doing'.

They're obviously doing something very very right & have done for 25 years that people DO weigh in behind that colossus of expectation so blindly.

ven0m

Het-Field wrote: »

Drumming at a rate he was in 1989 is just not tenable. He was 25 and was in the prime of his life. No family commitments, no work commitment. He had music and that was it.

If you watch him at a live show he still puts on something amazing !!! He is so energetic. However, James has got to be commended. Plus Kirk can still shread a a blue streak live while Rob is, well, Rob !!

I dont know how anybody can calll Justice a snoozefest. No Offence intended towards the poster who said this. However, Blackened, Justice, Eye, One, Harvester, and Dyers Eve are some of metallica's best

Compared to earlier material musically, it is a SNOOZEFEST & less challenging to play - that's my clarification.

As a musician, MoP, RTL are far more complex to play - james' rhythms are far more manic & difficult to replicate from MoP than anything on AJFA.

faceman

ven0m wrote: »

Compared to earlier material musically, it is a SNOOZEFEST & less challenging to play - that's my clarification.

As a musician, MoP, RTL are far more complex to play - james' rhythms are far more manic & difficult to replicate from MoP than anything on AJFA.

Complexity doesnt always go hand in hand with producing better music.

Metallica always comment that back in the early days, the live music scene (which was the music scene, there was no myspace or computers to do you demos etc) was often about who could play fastest, loudest, angriest etc. Metallica got tired out of that though and did for the most part play they way they wanted.

After all, i remember the controversy when RTL came out and *shock* there was a ballad on it! :eek:

ven0m

faceman wrote: »

Complexity doesnt always go hand in hand with producing better music.

Metallica always comment that back in the early days, the live music scene (which was the music scene, there was no myspace or computers to do you demos etc) was often about who could play fastest, loudest, angriest etc. Metallica got tired out of that though and did for the most part play they way they wanted.

After all, i remember the controversy when RTL came out and *shock* there was a ballad on it! :eek:

I never said more complex was better. I said "imho it was a snoozefest because it is less complex" & cited an example being the dynamic rhythms because I AM A MUSICIAN. Musician's very rarely like reptitiveness, even Hammett himself hated it hence his trip to a Mister Satriani so he could find himself out of his pentantonic blues box mess for solos.

'One' is the only track off AJFA that when performed live even gets close to the crowd responses for say 'Sanitarium' or 'Puppets' or 'Creeping Death' or other pre 88 material. That's a fact blatantly obvious to any fan at a Metallica live show & it's been that way for damn near 20 years whether the band themselves like it or fans don't like it

faceman

ven0m wrote: »

I never said more complex was better. I said "imho it was a snoozefest because it is less complex" & cited an example being the dynamic rhythms because I AM A MUSICIAN. Musician's very rarely like reptitiveness, even Hammett himself hated it hence his trip to a Mister Satriani so he could find himself out of his pentantonic blues box mess for solos.

With all due respect, being a musician doesnt give you a higher ability to enjoy or rate music. I dont really understand your point about repetitiveness either.

The guys from Primus are some of the most formally educated musicians in teh music business. Doesnt stop them from produced repetitive tripe though!

wrote:

'One' is the only track off AJFA that when performed live even gets close to the crowd responses for say 'Sanitarium' or 'Puppets' or 'Creeping Death' or other pre 88 material. That's a fact blatantly obvious to any fan at a Metallica live show & it's been that way for damn near 20 years whether the band themselves like it or fans don't like it

Given it is more commonly known Im not surprised. one was a single from the album, had its own video. None of the other songs did. Its great live too as its pyrotechnic display are infamous at this stage. Its a great song, yes. everything else on the album crap? no. Its not like the crowds are mute during any other AJFA songs

ven0m

faceman wrote: »

With all due respect, being a musician doesnt give you a higher ability to enjoy or rate music. I dont really understand your point about repetitiveness either.

The guys from Primus are some of the most formally educated musicians in teh music business. Doesnt stop them from produced repetitive tripe though!

wtf are you on today dude?? seriously ..... that makes NO shaggin sense, no wonder you're confused.

which part of IN MY OPINION did you not get ..... jesus h christmas faceman .... you're usually not this off the ball dude ...... FRIIIDDAAAAYYY - wakey wakey LOL

Ostrom

Call me a tool but I'm waiting for the album.

GF has it on mp3 but I havent had a chance to get the launch day vibe, listen to them in order, reading through the liner notes and looking at the inserts since Garage INC. Probably wont happen much anymore with mp3 and I love metallica....

Though I am still bitter about the Napster thing.... Hmm

Gonzovision

ven0m wrote: »

I never said more complex was better. I said "imho it was a snoozefest because it is less complex" & cited an example being the dynamic rhythms because I AM A MUSICIAN. Musician's very rarely like reptitiveness, even Hammett himself hated it hence his trip to a Mister Satriani so he could find himself out of his pentantonic blues box mess for solos.

'One' is the only track off AJFA that when performed live even gets close to the crowd responses for say 'Sanitarium' or 'Puppets' or 'Creeping Death' or other pre 88 material. That's a fact blatantly obvious to any fan at a Metallica live show & it's been that way for damn near 20 years whether the band themselves like it or fans don't like it

Totally disagree with this statement. A snoozefest? You must be joking.
"AS A MUSICIAN" I believe AJFA has some of the best and most memorable riffs on it and taken as a whole I believe eclipses MOP.

And regarding the songs not being as popular as the above listed, have you ever heard Blackened or Harvester of Sorrow live?

faceman

ven0m wrote: »

wtf are you on today dude?? seriously ..... that makes NO shaggin sense, no wonder you're confused.

which part of IN MY OPINION did you not get ..... jesus h christmas faceman .... you're usually not this off the ball dude ...... FRIIIDDAAAAYYY - wakey wakey LOL

Ive already misinterpreted someone's email today in work, plus i have an awful cold. So perhaps i did the same with you too! I will re-read later when i have a few lemsips and a hot whiskey!

but for the record, AJFA is great!

Het-Field

As a part time bassist, I have never had a problem with AJFA.

In fact its very easy to play on bass. You just stand there, turn the volume down real low and your away.

Devilman

In fact its very easy to play on bass. You just stand there, turn the volume down real low and your away

Surely you mean don't plug your bass in :cool:

120_Minutes

Ok, i'll admit, i've downloaded this album, simply because metallica are never getting any of my money ever again, but thats another topic.

but i think we need to take a step back and take a deep breath.

I was expecting this album to be utter ****e. i heard cyanide...meh...day that never comes (classical gas mixed with dont fear the reaper and one) double meh, and my apoc....well that got me interested...there was potential here, maybe they've come back??

well yes they have....kinda. Its my opinion the metallica are now giving the fans what they think they want. they ****ed up royal on st anger and now the pressure is on, they cant make the album they want so they must pander to joe sixpack..and judging from the collective orgasms on this thread it seems to have worked.

this is not a brilliant album...its a step in the right direction. there are no future classics here. granted i'm only halfway through listening to it and "all nightmare long" is the only song thats grabbing me (i have dipped into parts of all songs so i know what to expect)

Pluses: the riffing is good, but to disagree with an earlier post its not making me rush to my guitar to learn them, as i already probably have! theres nothing new here, its just that its been about 13 years since metallica have done this! so its a +1 for james here on the guitar

the production is not the cluster**** of st anger, but its not brilliant either. i'd love to hear this album with bob rocks polish on it. the guitars sound like they should....but thats about it.

Minuses: Lars. yes i know, its easy to lars bash, but come on, he's running out of ideas! one of these new tracks has most of the drums for st anger (the song) on it. did you think we wouldnt notice lars??? he's really letting the side down with predictable un imaginative drumming what i've heard so far (again, all nightmare long excluded)

Jame's vocal melodies are well.....kinda average..and he's autotuned to ****!

kirk, is well kinda kirk again. passable.

robert is sorely underused. shame.

so it gets an average 5-6/10 from me. good effort, must try harder next time. play from the heart guys, make the album you want to make, be it metal, indie, country whatever....just dont make st anger again.

so dont all rush to suck metallicock at once, its not that good....and you can bet some of the better songs wont be played live, because lars wont be able to!!!

djScarey

Review just above 2/10. The two is for the earnest attempt to present an opinion as fact. The overall riff was too sour for a chugging Rock and Metal Forum.

120_Minutes

djScarey wrote: »

Review just above 2/10. The two is for the earnest attempt to present an opinion as fact. The overall riff was too sour for a chugging Rock and Metal Forum.

halarious! ever think of becoming a comedian? go read it again, there some opinion in there and also some cold hard facts. :rolleyes:

Doctor J

ven0m wrote: »

Lars Ulrich is over 40 - do you HONESTLY expect him to play like he did at 18 with those drum figures at those speeds still?

It's not like Ringo Star or Charlie from the Stones where they had pedestrian drum lines that are easy to play 20-30 years later ....

People need to get off the lars-drumbashing. You try be a drummer playing some of those drumlines after 25 years & on the regularity he does on the road for several hours a night & see how your body stands up to it?

Fo those who don't know - your average 'rock' drummer in a nite's show burns the same calories as a marathon runner ..... now put that into perspective & I can't believe I'm saying this (cos Lars bugs me stupid with his well uh ya know uhhhh crap!) - but people need to lay off Lars & his drumming & realise he is getting older & NOT 18 any more.

You ought to listen to what his contemporaries from that era are doing then, the likes of Tom Hunting or Charlie Benante who are better and faster than they ever were.

As Newsted pointed out a few years back, Lars stopped practicing and that's why his drumming sucks balls. Lars is just ****ing lazy, his lack of drumming skill has nothing to do with his age.

MagicMarker

Well Lar's lacking of drumming skills is nothing new so i see no point debating it in this thread.

It's also evident on this thread that even if this were MOP 2 some people would still not be happy.

Twilightning

Stev_o

Twilightning wrote: »

Already been posted :P

Twilightning

Damn it! I thought I only saw this on the MetalIreland forums alone, didn't know it was here aswell!

Ah well, it deserves a repost.

120_Minutes

MagicMarker wrote: »

It's also evident on this thread that even if this were MOP 2 some people would still not be happy.

True, while part of me would love MOP 2, the other part of me would chide them for regressing.

That's why it sucks artistically for metallica, you're damned if you do....

which again raises the age old question of what they'd be like if burton had lived.

I think the change in sound from justice to reload would still have happened but the songs would have sounded way different, cliff was on his way to co writing entire albums, and you wouldnt have had the skewed hetfield/ulrich dictatorship. would they still have been huge? uncertain of course, i i'd hope they would, but for better reasons. st anger would never have happened though.

Doctor J

MagicMarker wrote: »

It's also evident on this thread that even if this were MOP 2 some people would still not be happy.

Your point being?

MOP 2 is impossible. When Metallica wrote Master Of Puppets they were pushing the boundaries, they were doing something new. By playing it safe and retreading their old steps, as most of the gushing posts on this thread suggest they are doing, they can't possibly hope to recapture the creative energy which made that album what it is.

Who wants Metallica playing it safe?

Het-Field

120_Minutes wrote: »

True, while part of me would love MOP 2, the other part of me would chide them for regressing.

That's why it sucks artistically for metallica, you're damned if you do....

which again raises the age old question of what they'd be like if burton had lived.

I think the change in sound from justice to reload would still have happened but the songs would have sounded way different, cliff was on his way to co writing entire albums, and you wouldnt have had the skewed hetfield/ulrich dictatorship. would they still have been huge? uncertain of course, i i'd hope they would, but for better reasons. st anger would never have happened though.

This is the problemw ith Metallica fans. They dont want MOP 2, but when the band push the boundaries ala Load/ReLoad, they cant take it.

Essentially Metallica fans want the same ferocity as on MOP, but thats where it stops.

It becomes clear that some sections of Metallica fans will never be happy. There are so many tracks of a back to basics theme, however, people like you are not happy

Dyr

i think the problem for metallica is that they havent made a decent album since 1991, changes in style have nothing to do with it :pac:

MagicMarker

Doctor J wrote: »

Your point being?

MOP 2 is impossible. When Metallica wrote Master Of Puppets they were pushing the boundaries, they were doing something new. By playing it safe and retreading their old steps, as most of the gushing posts on this thread suggest they are doing, they can't possibly hope to recapture the creative energy which made that album what it is.

Who wants Metallica playing it safe?

I don't think Metallica have ever played it safe, which is why a lot of fans have turned on them. If they did play it safe, then i don't think we would have ever seen Death Magnetic.

MagicMarker

Bambi wrote: »

i think the problem for metallica is that they havent made a decent album since 1991, changes in style have nothing to do with it :pac:

Tis all a matter of opinion i guess, I personally think some of the tracks on Death Magnetic are some of their best overall.

Doctor J

MagicMarker wrote: »

I don't think Metallica have ever played it safe, which is why a lot of fans have turned on them. If they did play it safe, then i don't think we would have ever seen Death Magnetic.

I think making an album which, by all accounts, falls between the sound of AJFA and the black album" in the middle of a thrash revival is the definition of playing it safe

They've never gone backwards, in fairness to them, until now.

MagicMarker

Doctor J wrote: »

I think making an album which, by all accounts, falls between the sound of AJFA and the black album" in the middle of a thrash revival is the definition of playing it safe

They've never gone backwards, in fairness to them, until now.

Well, they're dammed if you do and dammed if they don't.

What would you have preferred, out of curiosity?