Metallica - Death Magnetic.

ven0m

I think the Demo CD sounds a little better personally - even if lyrics changes etc. Guitars sound nastier, & vocals more raw - then again, 'demo magnetic' is all in Eb, not E.

It would always appear some people apply 10 tone ACME-style aspirations for Metallica material, & people with a hard-on for 1980's metal, which never seems to fade instead of accepting music for what it is, apparent influences.

I an pick out influences from Faith No More, Iron Maiden, Thin Lizzy, Slayer, Machine Head, Iron Maiden, Sabbath, Pantera & even Diamond Head on this one & some of it is very VERY blatant.

Then again, I usually put people with hammer-happy musical criticisms of any artist in the same grouping as movie critics; you're hammer happy cos you're personally talentless in the area you're criticizing (not aimed at ANYONE - just a statement).

I have been a songwriter & musician for over 20 years, & it is hard to write consistently when your own life changes so much over the years. My fingers certainly do not move anywhere nears as fast as they used to, & my years of Steve Vai/Yngwie Malmsteen pyrotechnic runs on a fret board are long over thanks to a Motorcycle accident.

When you've made a seminal album, sold millions of albums, sold out millions of tickets worldwide several times over for 25 years, THEN come back & criticize (again not aimed at anyone).

Just as a question - those who 'disliked' DM, how did you feel about the last Megadeth album in comparison to their previous efforts & why?

Doctor J

ven0m wrote: »

When you've made a seminal album, sold millions of albums, sold out millions of tickets worldwide several times over for 25 years, THEN come back & criticize (again not aimed at anyone).

Just as a question - those who 'disliked' DM, how did you feel about the last Megadeth album in comparison to their previous efforts & why?

What qualifies one to praise music if they haven't such stupendous qualifications too? I no more have to justify or qualify my criticsim than you have to justify or qualify your praise.

Surely you can just accept it is possible for someone to dislike music and find the flaws in a recording jarring just as much as it is possible for someone to like a recorded piece? How can criticism be invalid? Do you like every piece of music ever released? Surely unless you have lived the lives of the artist you can neither criticize nor praise? Is that what you're saying? That doesn't make sense.

As for Megadeth, their last album was dire, possibly worse than this Metallica one. Slayer's last one too was an exercise in mediocrity, in case you're wondering.

ven0m wrote: »

accepting music for what it is

That is exactly the approach I took listening to this album. Disregarding the name on the CD, it's a fairly empty musical journey by any standard.

120_Minutes

I'm a qualified sound engineer for 12 years and a musician for 16, i consider myself to be a good judge of music and have favourite bands in almost all genres. if i criticise music, i usually back it up with valid arguments as to why i dont like it, i know its my opinion....but at the risk of sounding like a wanker, its an educated opinion. i was in a not very sucessful but respected heavy band a few years ago (not metal per se) and we wrote good music (in my opinion) so i believe i'm entitled to pick apart anyones music....it doesnt make me right, or wrong but its my right to do it. thats not an attack, just explaining my position. this metallica album is average, i've already said it on this thread and in my opinion it falls thusly:

MOP
RTL
BLACK/AJFA
KEA
LOAD
DM
RELOAD
STABORTION.

so its the 5th best metallica album....or 3rd worst

I stopped listening to megadeth after youth-in-asia. heard kick the chair a few years ago, but thats it so i cant offer an opinion on them sorry.

ven0m

Doctor J wrote: »

What qualifies one to praise music if they haven't such stupendous qualifications too? I no more have to justify or qualify my criticsim than you have to justify or qualify your praise.

Surely you can just accept it is possible for someone to dislike music and find the flaws in a recording jarring just as much as it is possible for someone to like a recorded piece? How can criticism be invalid? Do you like every piece of music ever released? Surely unless you have lived the lives of the artist you can neither criticize nor praise? Is that what you're saying? That doesn't make sense.

As for Megadeth, their last album was dire, possibly worse than this Metallica one. Slayer's last one too was an exercise in mediocrity, in case you're wondering.


That is exactly the approach I took listening to this album. Disregarding the name on the CD, it's a fairly empty musical journey by any standard.

I can accept people not liking it, what I don't seem to understand is ludicrous expectations from a 'rock music' band that's been around 25 years. I don't like everything that's been released, but your post just seemed like you got the disappointment of a lifetime as opposed to 'I was open minded & it wasnt for me'.

oh, I agree on the Slayer album ........ but then again, it's hard to take ANYTHING done by Kerry King seriously since he tried denying he ever dressed in Pink spandex & then the photos appeared & he still tried to deny it LOL

120_Minutes wrote: »

I stopped listening to megadeth after youth-in-asia. heard kick the chair a few years ago, but thats it so i cant offer an opinion on them sorry.

'Youthanasia' ...... even Dave himself went back & redid a track off that for the last Megadeth album ....... now THAT'S devoid of ideas, re-recording an old track with a female chick singing some parts & sticking it on an album.


Megadeth for me have always been a 'only exist because Dave got booted from Metallica' band, & have had aome incredible musicians in their ranks over the years, but have always remained 'that other metallica band' - even in Dave's own mind.

Het-Field wrote: »

If you listen to them they are genuinly hard, without resorting to some of the riffs of St Anger

Not entirely true my friend, some riffs on it have some of the same figures as some stuff off St Anger, & some of the same figures as some material off Load & ReLoad ..... as well as a healthy dose of some pilfered riff figures from several other notable 'metal' bands.

Just when I think about it, even the Beatles ran out of ideas fairly sharpish - but then again, they wrote a song for everything you could write a song for/about or re-use ideas etc.

Doctor J

ven0m wrote: »

I can accept people not liking it, what I don't seem to understand is ludicrous expectations from a 'rock music' band that's been around 25 years. I don't like everything that's been released, but your post just seemed like you got the disappointment of a lifetime as opposed to 'I was open minded & it wasnt for me'.

Again, if you read what I wrote, you'll see I struggle to see where the hype is coming from, my expectations were low but I remained hopeful of a pleasant surprise. Given the gushing praise uttered on this thread among others which bordered on embarassing at times, I was at least expecting something which would stand up as a contemporary Metal album. It's not a life altering disappointment, it's just yet another sub-standard album from Metallica, I can quite easliy get over it. When people are comparing it to former glories I feel it only right to set the record straight, as I see it. It's not a gread Metallica album, it's not even a good Metallica album and it needs to be remastered. You don't need to be a guitar player to appreciate that :P

ven0m

Doctor J wrote: »

Again, if you read what I wrote, you'll see I struggle to see where the hype is coming from, my expectations were low but I remained hopeful of a pleasant surprise. Given the gushing praise uttered on this thread among others which bordered on embarassing at times, I was at least expecting something which would stand up as a contemporary Metal album. It's not a life altering disappointment, it's just yet another sub-standard album from Metallica, I can quite easliy get over it. When people are comparing it to former glories I feel it only right to set the record straight, as I see it. It's not a gread Metallica album, it's not even a good Metallica album and it needs to be remastered. You don't need to be a guitar player to appreciate that :P

That's where I'd beg to differ considering how the entire genre was built & the fanbase from the 80's was built - it was mainly built out of kids scrambling to buy guitars to learnt the latest riffs, & running into school bragging how they could play the latest Van Halen riff etc.

Metal's following, sales increases etc all coincided with the guitar boom of the 80's - which is a fact. Take a look at any of the most revered bands out there, & you'll see 'guitar players' who are top of polls, signed ultra lucrative endorsement deals years back before every-tom-dick-and-harry could get an endorsement deal.

There's a direct link between the two. Even the progression of 'metal' into sub genres was led by guitar players, & fans of said players. It's why you've got people like Rusty Coolie & the dudes from Meshuggah, or Stephen Carpenter.

Even the staggering success of games like 'Guitar Hero' again proves the point about how MUSICIANSHIP is what drove/drives rock music, & that the majority of people are in fact frustrated musicians/wannabe musicians.

The entire culture of 'metal' is built around the musician, not your average long haired, headbanging, beer swilling, beer belied fan in a concert t-shirt from 1995 with leather biker jacket on.

MagicMarker

Ah shut up the lot of ya...

I'm telling you the album is great, because i've been a music listener since i was zero years old, that's right... ZERO!!!! So my opinion is educated blah blah...

You're all wrong, except those who agree with me:D

ven0m

MagicMarker wrote: »

Ah shut up the lot of ya...

I'm telling you the album is great, because i've been a music listener since i was zero years old, that's right... ZERO!!!! So my opinion is educated blah blah...

You're all wrong, except those who agree with me:D

you sir ..... legend .........

Passenger

Where is the bass on this album? They have a talent like Trujillo in the band and I was half expecting some moderate bass solos or at the very least some audible exhibition of his chops but he's keeping it fairly inconspicious, preferring to be behind the guitars.

ven0m

Passenger wrote: »

Where is the bass on this album? They have a talent like Trujillo in the band and I was half expecting some moderate bass solos or at the very least some audible exhibition of his chops but he's keeping it fairly inconspicious, preferring to be behind the guitars.

It's where basslines generally belong .... in behind guitars, closer to the lower end drums - unless you'vea super distinct sound like Fieldy from Korn - impossible to hide him anywhere in the mix cos he has such a distinctive sound/style - plus he's the LAZIEST bass player ever; as in he only picks up a bass guitar when he has to for Korn, it's not a 'quick 5 minute noodle' like most guitar/bass players.

Nah seriously - bass is fairly inconspicuous in the mix, but even the baslines are fairly inconspicuous as I've sat down with them. But, I too did expect personally a more 'ballsy' low end from them considering when they play live, Rob's bass more or less suckerpunches your gut, along with Lars' ridiculously loudly mic'd bass drums :mad:

Doctor J

ven0m wrote: »

That's where I'd beg to differ considering how the entire genre was built & the fanbase from the 80's was built - it was mainly built out of kids scrambling to buy guitars to learnt the latest riffs, & running into school bragging how they could play the latest Van Halen riff etc.

Metal's following, sales increases etc all coincided with the guitar boom of the 80's - which is a fact. Take a look at any of the most revered bands out there, & you'll see 'guitar players' who are top of polls, signed ultra lucrative endorsement deals years back before every-tom-dick-and-harry could get an endorsement deal.

There's a direct link between the two. Even the progression of 'metal' into sub genres was led by guitar players, & fans of said players. It's why you've got people like Rusty Coolie & the dudes from Meshuggah, or Stephen Carpenter.

Even the staggering success of games like 'Guitar Hero' again proves the point about how MUSICIANSHIP is what drove/drives rock music, & that the majority of people are in fact frustrated musicians/wannabe musicians.

The entire culture of 'metal' is built around the musician, not your average long haired, headbanging, beer swilling, beer belied fan in a concert t-shirt from 1995 with leather biker jacket on.

Thanks for the history lesson.

The point is, you don't need to be a guitar player to be able to distinguish the quality or lack thereof on a Metal album. There are plenty of non-guitarists who listen to and enjoy Metal music to a high degree of success, even under laboratory conditions. If you want to play that game then I've only been playing 19 years, but I play bass and drums as well as guitar, I'm also a qualified sound engineer and I've got my own studio at home now. Big deal. It matters not a jot when it comes to listening to music, being a musician does not automatically mean you enjoy it more or you have the inside track on music appreciation.

Regardless of all this tripe, there's a ****ty mastering job done on that album and you people paying €15 or so of your hard earned deserve better.

ven0m

Doctor J wrote: »

Thanks for the history lesson.

The point is, you don't need to be a guitar player to be able to distinguish the quality or lack thereof on a Metal album. There are plenty of non-guitarists who listen to and enjoy Metal music to a high degree of success, even under laboratory conditions. If you want to play that game then I've only been playing 19 years, but I play bass and drums as well as guitar, I'm also a qualified sound engineer and I've got my own studio at home now. Big deal. It matters not a jot when it comes to listening to music, being a musician does not automatically mean you enjoy it more or you have the inside track on music appreciation.

Regardless of all this tripe, there's a ****ty mastering job done on that album and you people paying €15 or so of your hard earned deserve better.

Did you pay your €15 or so?

Doctor J

I was going to buy it, just like I bought stanger when it came out, then a mate played it to me, now my money will go elsewhere

It's a shame, I'd love to hear Metallica do something good again (although the money spent on the lobster movie was the best €25 ever) and not Master Of Puppets II but this album is cack to my ears and when people comment on it favourably I can only think it's because of the logo on the front and folks willing themselves to like it because it's just a load of riffs in search of some songs and not finding them.

But, of course, all IMO :pac:

ven0m

Doctor J wrote: »

I was going to buy it, just like I bought stanger when it came out, then a mate played it to me, now my money will go elsewhere

It's a shame, I'd love to hear Metallica do something good again (although the money spent on the lobster movie was the best €25 ever) and not Master Of Puppets II but this album is cack to my ears and when people comment on it favourably I can only think it's because of the logo on the front and folks willing themselves to like it because it's just a load of riffs in search of some songs and not finding them.

But, of course, all IMO :pac:

MagicMarker, sorry - revolking 'legend' status, cos Doctor J just made post of the year ........ I LOL'd my ass off here mate ..... priceless .....


when you say played, did he play a mastered-store-bought-copy of the album, or the MP3's?


oh, I liked it cos I actually like some of the melodies from the riffs, cos I'm a riff-addict ..... along the same lines as more esteemed Riff addicts such as Mr. Zack Wylde & a deceased Mr. Dimebag Darrell, both of whom are considered the greatest riffers in metal, of course, all IMO :pac:

Pyr0

I find myself agreeing with Doctor J completely, I've listened to it once the whole way through and I couldn't wait for it to finish. The majority of the songs just dragged on and on with some riff thrown in that doesn't fit at all into the songs to make them longer. The guitars were horrible to listen to, the riffs were boring, the solos were worse, to me the overall guitar playing had no "umph" to it if you get what I'm saying. The drumming was just as boring than the guitars, using the same basic drum line that he's been using for about 20 years now, with the odd double bass thrown in to no effect, the sound of the snare was dire. Thats twice in a row lars, gg. "All Nightmare long" was a poor attempt at a 'thrash song' imo, yeah sure it had the fast palm muting we all love in good thrash songs but most of the riffs didn't run nicely together at all and felt like they were just thrown in to give it the 'thrash effect'.Overall I feel its a poor attempt, its better than St.Anger alright but I could squeeze something out of my ass that'd be better on my ears than that. A mate of mine was saying "I feel its their best alright" and I was left thinking 'Wtf?'. I just couldn't get me head around it at all, but then I remembered there's some people out there that'd buy and love a fresh steamy one sealed in plastic and "Metallica" stamped on the front (St.Anger).

I could go on and on but i'd just be repeating what Doctor J said so i'll just leave it at that.

Rant over :pac:

PattheMetaller

Hey folks,

sure everyone is entitled to their opinion and all that, but do we have to disect and analyize everything to death?

I've been with Metallica since Ride the Lightening was released and enjoy all albums (okay St Anger :eek: is a struggle). Why should they record and release a RTL or MOP every two years? Bands evolve, song writing evolves in line with life experiences

BarryCreed

How many musicians does it take to change a lightbulb?

Answer: 10.

1 to change it, 9 to say "good, but I could have done better"...:rolleyes:

120_Minutes

theres a thread about mastering and the "loudness war" over at the music production forum and someone linked to this, an engineers forum. seems the mastering engineer wasnt to happy about having to master this album, the mixes were maxed out when he got them. so it seems the guy who mixed this album, rather than the mastering engineer is at fault.

theres an online petition to get the album remixed already, and it seems the guitar hero versions sound better than the album!!

Patricide

120_Minutes wrote: »

theres a thread about mastering and the "loudness war" over at the music production forum and someone linked to this, an engineers forum. seems the mastering engineer wasnt to happy about having to master this album, the mixes were maxed out when he got them. so it seems the guy who mixed this album, rather than the mastering engineer is at fault.

theres an online petition to get the album remixed already, and it seems the guitar hero versions sound better than the album!!

God, that thread made my face drop. Poor guy.

Dyr

ven0m wrote: »

along the same lines as more esteemed Riff addicts such as Mr. Zack Wylde & a deceased Mr. Dimebag Darrell, both of whom are considered the greatest riffers in metal, of course, all IMO :pac:

Stop the f**kin bus there a minute, considered by who? diamante darrell and that airhead wrote better riffs than Iommi did?

Stev_o

May Rubin's tone deaf and never heard the clipping :P

But my god the blame has to rest on someone's hands how anyone thought the sound was fine is beyond me really takes away from the music. Almost wish they got Bob Rock to mix it.

SouperComputer

PMSL at the waveform (blocks) in this.

Dont think it would have made a difference if Bob CockRock was involved in the mixing, listen to the black album "almost" as bad.

phantom_lord

after i got over the zomg new metallica factor, i couldn't listen to the album anymore esp. through my headphones, the sound is really dire.

phantom_lord

idk if this has been posted but it's a short clip of the album vs the ghIII version

http://rapidshare.com/files/145551505/Samples.zip.html

MagicMarker

You can say what you want about the sound, it's much better than anything recorded pre black album.

phantom_lord

MagicMarker wrote: »

You can say what you want about the sound, it's much better than anything recorded pre black album.

no it's not, and it's not even close.

MagicMarker

phantom_lord wrote: »

no it's not, and it's not even close.

I'm talking about the production, if you think the production on this is worse than anything they've done from the 80's then you must be nuttier than a nut in a nut nutty thingy nut... thing.

ven0m

Bambi wrote: »

Stop the f**kin bus there a minute, considered by who? diamante darrell and that airhead wrote better riffs than Iommi did?

Hey, I'm with you on Iommi, but Zakk Wylde inspired more people to pick up guitars & play than any other rock guitarist, which is a fact that none of the guitar magazines will dispute. His Epiphone signature series is one of the best seilling signature series guitars ever produced after Steve Vai's JEM range, & Dimebag's various ranges he's had over the years - tis unfortunate, but very bloody true

And, I last night listened to DM off m iPod & thru headphones - & I'm sorry to say this, but anyone who dissed the production, you're sooooo right - it's just too effing loud!!!!! Distortion everywhere. Even when I FLAC'd the CD instead, same deal....

Funny thing is, 'Demo Magnetic' sounds way better, no distortion, FLAC'd or MP3'd ...... listening to DM on iPod or through headphones really shows up the production flaws :-(

BarryCreed

AJFA sounds like sh*t, no bass, but it's a great album..
I don't think DM sounds that bad. now I initially downloaded it, and it is distorted in places. I hope the CD is slightly better, but even so, it doesn't bother me that much.
Too many people on here saying how rubbish it is etc. Lars, for all his w@nk talk, said something right when he asked why nobody had stepped up to the plate and made a kick @ss album and become as big and as popular as them...

are any of ye critics on here in original bands? If so, could you post up your myspace so I could have a listen?

Doctor J

ven0m wrote: »

Hey, I'm with you on Iommi, but Zakk Wylde inspired more people to pick up guitars & play than any other rock guitarist

Any other rock guitarist? You've heard of Eddie Van Halen?