Superpaging

TheChief36

What do people think of this superpage I knocked together? Superpaging is a new fad that's come out.

JangoFett

Whats the point of it exactly?

Fysh

I think I don't see the point of it, and I think it's just a collage of panels from various comics without any greater unifying theme or pattern.

I'm in two minds as to whether this thread should stay. Cursory google checks haven't shown any great popularity for the idea elsewhere; it's certainly not something whose value is intrinsic and obvious; and I don't see it offering any interesting discussion about comics....

alnolan

*shrugs* Meh.

ztoical

alnolan wrote: »

*shrugs* Meh.

+ 1

I don't see the point.

I know some people like to blank out balloons and create their own stories but at least theres some artistic input in that, this is just a cut and paste job with no real attempt at storytelling

Superpaging is a new fad that's come out.

come out of where?

TheChief36

It's so popular there's even been a song written about it:

"Superpage, I love my superpage,
it's all the rage,
it's my superpage.
More powerful than a level 60 mage,
it's my superpage.
Much better than a normal page,
superpage!"

Lone Stone

Sorry mate dont really get the point in it but each to there own.
Reminds me of that guy who use to take other peoples art and blow it up into huge pictures and sell it off as his own :mad:

ztoical

TheChief36 wrote: »

It's so popular there's even been a song written about it:

but so popular with who and where? Either link to examples or let the mods lock the post. And again I ask whats the point?

JangoFett

Lone Stone wrote: »

Sorry mate dont really get the point in it but each to there own.
Reminds me of that guy who use to take other peoples art and blow it up into huge pictures and sell it off as his own :mad:

That was Roy Lichtenstein, took comic book panels, blew them up and claimed that NOW they were art. Was around in the 50's, a complete hack, friends with Andy Warhol...complete bastards

I was kicked out of an art gallery in New York for shouting at one of his plagarisms.

Fysh

TheChief36 wrote: »

It's so popular there's even been a song written about it:

"Superpage, I love my superpage,
it's all the rage,
it's my superpage.
More powerful than a level 60 mage,
it's my superpage.
Much better than a normal page,
superpage!"

Ah yes, clearly that proves that it's a genuine phenomenon and not something you just pulled out of the hole in your arse :rolleyes:

Thus far in this thread, nobody who has responded has seen any merit to the idea of superpaging or heard of it before you mentioned it. So: if you can give me three or more links to legitimate articles or discussions about this emerging trend, I'll leave the thread open. Otherwise, I'll be locking and/or deleting it.

TheChief36

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/nopperabou36/IDcvr.png

The Italian philosopher Spinzo said "Art is that which makes normal people act like crazy people". Using that reasoning Roy's work is art. That and it's in an art gallery which is a pretty good test. Also you were probably thrown out more for disturbing the other patrons than your criticism of the art. Also that never happened. You were with a friend and you were only asked to be quiet. It's only an artistic gesture if you scream at something you drew yourself. Otherwise you're just a butterfly-stapling critic.

The panels aren't actually chosen at random. They make sense when read in the right order. For example Rictus tells The Killer "I don't **** goats" and in the panel above a hand sedates a four legged creature. Herr Starr says "He's ****ting in his hand" and in the neighbouring panel The Bulleteer stares at her hand as if she's just shat some mercury into it. Jimmy Corrigan is barely noticed squeezed in between two more exciting panels just as the character himself goes through life unnoticed. More ****: the tusked vampire asks "What's that smell?" while underneath him Stanley Ipkis may have shat himself in fear, possibly at the Joker, the red of the two panels mingling together as the Joker materializes out of his toilet. Lady Quark of Infinite Crisis tries to warn Kathy not to enter the shilouette. The back of the man's jacket in the DMZ panel says "comix addicted" I'm sure you can see the reason that's there! The scissormen in the Doom Patrol panel represent myself, using the cut-up method and so on. So you see there is something connecting them all, if you look hard enough.

If you've ever tried to write something you'll realise that all you're really doing is taking words, which were created long ago and already have all their meaning attached and slotting them together with other words to make something new. Only very rare writing artists like Shakespeare and and Joyce create their own words the rest are only slotters. Stephen King is a slotter. What I've done is the same but with a visual facet. Also it took me two days to make that and I hurt my arms lifting my big stacks of graphic novels. Spinzo also said "Time x pain + labour = craft". I also had to choose panels not to include. I didn't include a panel from Lenore: Cooties because it was too horizontal for example. That's editing. And what is sculpting but editing out the bits of stone you don't want.

The French artist Robon said the purpose of art is to either "Record, entertain, beautify or communicate." The superpage records my comic book collection before I sell it, is a multiple of the number of panels it has more entertaining than a normal comic page, is much prettier to look at than the pale blue boxes of the forum and communicates my love of comics. Therefore by all of Robon's four princibles(Nude Descending a Staircase only got 2 out of four), it is art. I may not have set off an edifying discussion on comic books but people have responded my questioning the very nature of art itself and what can be more mind expanding than that? After all collage was the chosen artform of Kenneth Halliwell, lover and killer of playwright Joe Orton. Halliwell is famous, gay, dead and a killer making him 5 times better than a normal person. And collage was good enough for him...

A cursory Google check didn't reveal the global presence of Superpaging, don't try an in-depth Google check, it won't reveal anything either. How Superpaging or superpaneling as it's sometimes called works is whoever can identify the source of all the panels and how they relate to each other gets to create the next superpage, once the new superpage is formed all evidence of previous superpages is destroyed, that way the movement is always "avant-garde" whatever superpage exists will always be the frontrunner of the movement.

Fysh

I'll be perfectly honest with you, it sounds like a load of modern-art toss on a par with Damien Hirst at his most banal. I can get behind the idea of collage-based art but I don't think your piece transcends the original material used, so it doesn't attain any value of its own.

Your argument about the validity of superpaging is flawed - sure, we all use language to express ourselves, but writing is about using words in such a way to evoke more than just their individual dictionary definitions. Superpaging as you've demonstrated and explained it has to, by virtue of its dependence on other people's artwork as its framework, create or represent some greater idea or theme that could not be inferred from the individual panel but only from their interpolation. Sure, you've chosen panels such that there is some tenuous connection from one to the next, but that doesn't mean there's any greater meaning to the piece.

Aside from which, to be honest, if you've got to start quoting philosophers to support your claim that something you've done counts as art, you're not off to a very good start. I dispute the idea that scanning a series of panels and arranging them in Photoshop is inherently enough of a craft to justify its results as artwork; furthermore, if the only thing that this discussion on superpaging is going to contribute to the forum is pretentious, modern-art ponce-talk then I will admit to looking forward to locking it with some delight.

I'm leaving this open for about 24 hours, in which time you can post up links to prove that superpaging isn't just some poncy modern-art concept you made up while on the beer with similarly-minded friends.

Saruwatari

Just thought I'd let people know, if you Google "Superpaging", this thread is the 4th or 5th result. :pac:

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Saruwatari wrote: »

Just thought I'd let people know, if you Google "Superpaging", this thread is the 4th or 5th result. :pac:

Lol, it's now the 3rd result for me.

Did you make it up OP?:pac:

Fysh

To be honest I think the OP must have made it up. After some time googling, I found 1 single page that was in any way similar to the OP's conception of superpaging - the Stolen Birthday Present. Sadly for the OP, this version made considerably more sense since its unifying theme was the original date of publication of the panels - the birthday of the person concerned.

ztoical

TheChief36 wrote: »

The panels aren't actually chosen at random. They make sense when read in the right order. For example Rictus tells The Killer "I don't **** goats" and in the panel above a hand sedates a four legged creature. Herr Starr says "He's ****ting in his hand" and in the neighbouring panel The Bulleteer stares at her hand as if she's just shat some mercury into it. Jimmy Corrigan is barely noticed squeezed in between two more exciting panels just as the character himself goes through life unnoticed. More ****: the tusked vampire asks "What's that smell?" while underneath him Stanley Ipkis may have shat himself in fear, possibly at the Joker, the red of the two panels mingling together as the Joker materializes out of his toilet. Lady Quark of Infinite Crisis tries to warn Kathy not to enter the shilouette. The back of the man's jacket in the DMZ panel says "comix addicted" I'm sure you can see the reason that's there! The scissormen in the Doom Patrol panel represent myself, using the cut-up method and so on. So you see there is something connecting them all, if you look hard enough.

but theres no evidence in your "superpage" that you understand the basic principles of cartooning or storytelling. Go get Scott McClouds "understanding comics" and read the chapter on panal and transitions. If you knew anything about layout and comic design you'd know that the way the panals are arranged should not only lead the eye around the page but also set the pace for the page just like a cinematographer does with live action film. You say they make sense when read the right order but if you have to tell the reader that then you've failed as a storyteller. I don't get a little mini verision of the creator with each comic I buy so if I end up reading a page in different order to what the artist intended then he/she hasn't lead my eye in the direction they wished. Sometimes that doesn't make a difference sometimes it does but from a comics point of view [and this is a comics forum] what you've described is a bunch of post-modern rubbish.

Jack B. Badd

It's a collage. I used to do them in primary school

TheChief36

I was only kidding. Obviously it's a simple collage without any real artistry involved. That's not to say you can't make art out of bits stuck together. Like that guy in Cinema Paradiso who combined all the banned kissing scenes. As well as that why does a trend have to start "out there"? Why can't it be start "right here"? That's exactly the mentality that's holding back the Irish comic industry.

ztoical

TheChief36 wrote: »

As well as that why does a trend have to start "out there"? Why can't it be start "right here"? That's exactly the mentality that's holding back the Irish comic industry.

first your first post implied it had started "out there" - maybe if you'd presented it as something new you were trying to develop, and given your reasons/motivations for it, people might have jumped on [thou its a lame idea so prob not] and it might have developed into something interesting.

second sticking a bunch of [copyrighted] images together to create a page that has little to no storytelling elements is not doing anything for the irish comic industry. If your really so concerened about it then post in the thread about the irish small press scene or here's a thought create new art.

JangoFett

I can see this guy was trying something with this "Superpaging" idea of his but it just reeks of Lichtenstein and I hate that guy. He was a theif and a plagarist with no talent of his own.

I'm sure the OP has his own talents but not in this specific field. I agree with what someone else said, maybe if you removed the speech and made up your own...but then it'd be like a satirical web comic, having Batman and The Green Goblin discussing all the chicks they've boned while still in costume, it'd be hilarious, and all the panels you use, they'd look all intense and stuff...

Hey, could someone with more time on their hands actually make that, I mean, that would be cool

Jack B. Badd

ztoical wrote: »

first your first post implied it had started "out there" - maybe if you'd presented it as something new you were trying to develop, and given your reasons/motivations for it, people might have jumped on [thou its a lame idea so prob not] and it might have developed into something interesting.

But, ztoical, if you aren't told that other people like something how will you know if you like it yourself?

Fysh

TheChief36 wrote: »

I was only kidding. Obviously it's a simple collage without any real artistry involved. That's not to say you can't make art out of bits stuck together. Like that guy in Cinema Paradiso who combined all the banned kissing scenes.

Yes, but your example piece had no greater context or thematic depth, whereas the combination of all the banned kissing scenes in Cinema Paradiso had significance because it was the by-product of censorship and were all taken from thematically similar films.

TheChief36 wrote: »

As well as that why does a trend have to start "out there"? Why can't it be start "right here"? That's exactly the mentality that's holding back the Irish comic industry.

A trend can start anywhere, but in order to catch on it has to have a hook. Your example does little to show that interesting things could come out of superpaging, especially compared to the Stolen Birthday Present. I'd say "try again", but I don't see the point unless you're going to alter your method by introducing some sort of thematic constants eg only work from a common writer/artist/country/publishing house/year/star sign/whatever.

As for "holding back the irish comic industry", I'd be delighted to hear your ideas on what contribution a meaningless and derivative collage can make to further the cause of homegrown comics, because right now it looks like it'll make absolutely no difference to anyone ever.

thebaddy

Jesus guys - calm down.

alnolan

I'd like to start a trend where everybody buys Sancho comics in very large quantities.
It may not be good for the Irish comics industry, but it'd certainly give me a boost.

Fysh

alnolan wrote: »

I'd like to start a trend where everybody buys Sancho comics in very large quantities.
It may not be good for the Irish comics industry, but it'd certainly give me a boost.

Ah now Al, it'd be great for the Irish comics industry, plus it would give you the money you need to get into rehab and finally kick that deviant habit involving the staples. Or was I not supposed to mention that?

(On a Sancho-related note, is there any way I can buy a few copies of the trade online?)

alnolan

I have to talk to Iano re getting his ass in gear to update the website, but in the meantime, email me on the usual and we'll sort you out. Cheers, pal.

By the way, you're the one with the long arm stapler. That dining table will never be the same again.

TheChief36

Why does no one get that I was kidding? I was using fictional quotes from non-existant artists and philosophers for God's sake. Robon, Spinzo, there are no such people. It just shows no one really reads long posts just glances at them to get the gist. And I never said my collage would do anything for Irish comics just to get rid of the attitude of taking the lead from elsewhere. The idea that there has to be articles about something before it can be said to exist. You didn't really answer the question as to why you think only the mainstream media can declare when a trend is in effect. I'm accused of taking credit for other people's work but at the same time there need to be at least three people that have gone before me for me to be taken seriously. Huh?

And the films he used weren't thematically similar they were just films from the era that had kissing scenes taken out. Also I think the point was more that he was a secret film maker all along and the guy didn't know rather than the censorship thing. He just worked with the material he had. My context was pretty clear: my comic collection. Also I did have constants as you described them. I could only use single panels and I could only take one panel from each book and I only used trades and couldn't take from the same series like I was only allowed one from all of Sandman. So does that make it any better? I mean if I had only used the same artist it would have looked too samey. Superpaging is a word I made up for fun. You know I didn't really expect this reaction I thought people would be like "Oh that looks nice, is that a bit of Preacher oh I'm a Preacher fan myself" not "Damn you you cultural vandal! You fraud go bum Andy Warhol!"

alnolan

Welcome to the Chief 36's post-modern, pritt stick sniffin' nightmare. Oh, god.

Fysh

Part of the reason you've gotten an overwhelmingly negative reaction is down to that age-old problem of text on a screen not conveying tone adequately.

Your intent may have been jokey, but it wasn't evidently so and as a result you appeared to be a modern-art type trying to present a philosophy of art whereby the idea behind the piece is the important thing, with the actual craftmanship or artistry of realisation rendered unimportant. (Hence my comparison to modern-art-ponce extraordinaire, Damien Hirst aka His Gobsh*teness). The allusions to philosophers in particular make sense in this context (at least for me) and between the possibility of typos (I'd assumed Spinzo was a creative typo for Spinoza, for example) and my utter lack of interest in getting into an argument debating the finer points of the philosophy of art when discussing the piece you uploaded, I didn't bother checking them.

As for the "trend" aspect, that was a case of being hoist by your own petard. Personally if someone comes up with an idea that interests me and that I'd like to copy, it's irrelevant whether it's popular or not. Saying that something is a trend or a fad suggests that you think this is an indicator of its worth, which naturally then leads people to expect you to back up your statement.

If you'd originally just said "this is an idea i came up with, I think it's an interesting way of putting a face on my comic collection" it would have probably gotten a better reception.

As a way of trying to summarise your collection, it's an interesting notion, although the real challenge would be to do so while also weaving some sort of overall narrative thread that flows in an obvious way. Heck, if you really want a challenge you could try to create a superpage that flows legibly while also being a recreation of a panel (like those photo-collages made of 1000's of small photos put together to create the appearance of one big picture, only without cheating and just using photoshop to overlay a semi-transparent version of the big picture on top of the collage).

Jack B. Badd

TheChief36 wrote: »

Why does no one get that I was kidding?

Because it doesn't sound like you're kidding, it sounds you're back-peddling on your oh-so-popular concept now that people haven't greeted it as enthusiastically as you thought they would.

TheChief36 wrote: »

Superpaging is a word I made up for fun. You know I didn't really expect this reaction I thought people would be like "Oh that looks nice, is that a bit of Preacher oh I'm a Preacher fan myself" not "Damn you you cultural vandal! You fraud go bum Andy Warhol!"

You came up with a concept that's a none-too-exciting rehash of an existing concept and tried to sell it as an established fad. You effectively tried to hijack people's opinions about it by exclaiming loudly that it was the "next big thing" and that "all the cool kids are doing it". And when that failed, because this forum isn't populated with people who follow every little trend that's going, you got defensive. Even if you hadn't tried to artificially inflate your concept's popularity most people probably would have been honest with you and told you that it just isn't very good. Anyone who can cut & paste and has access to an image library and arbitrarily chooses a handful of constraints could produce the same given half an hour.

TheChief36

Oh for God's sake I had to call it something. I had to say something in the first post. In future Ill just say "here is a collage" so no one get's confused. I did not invent collages I am not Jean Pierre de Collage. In future I think I'll just submit any collages I make to collageforum.com where they'll be more readily accepted. By the way I've invented a new form of martial art, it's called BMX-fu and combines elements of BMXing and Kung-fu. Don't look for it online though it's highly underground you'll just have to take my word it exists.