10 days to go until truckers bring Ireland to a standstill over fuel taxes?

vibe666

just seen the headline on the front of one of todays newspapers that if the government doesn't cut fuel tax prices that all the truck drivers will be on a go slow (or possibly stop, didn't read the whole thing) across the country in protest.

Personally, I'd be tempted to join them at this stage. it doesn't seem to have made any difference with all the calls for fuel prices to be investigated by the AA and the likes, the only thing they seem to understand is actions.

sure it's going to be an inconvenience, but if it gets a cut in fuel tax or at least moves the govt. into action then at 1.45€ a litre I'm all for it.

Mitch Connor

as far as i know there is nothing the government can actually do. Apparently there is some EU rule/law that prevents them from cutting the tax (heard this in relation to the protests in England.

Anyway, it would probably just end up pushing the price of Oil up, or the stations would increase their margins so that there'd be no overall real positive effect for the consumer.

vibe666

well, hopefully not. I don't think people have a lot of patience left with regard to the current prices.

although having said that my local garage is down 2c on the cost of diesel so maybe it's subsiding. I seem to remember seeing that the price of oil is dropping again a little bit, so hopefully this is the end of the spike.

kluivert

The Euro fell slightly on Friday after the no confidennce in the Lisbon Treaty, which strenghten the US Dollar, which should help Oil Prices a bit.

The Petrol Station are making good margins.

The Petrol Station across the road from me must be doing well as the owner has an 07 BMW M5, before that he had a Merc SL AMG.

His prices are the lowest in the region, and the place is always busy.

L1011

The euro weakening against the dollar puts prices *up*, not helps them down.

MrPudding

kluivert wrote: »

The Euro fell slightly on Friday after the no confidennce in the Lisbon Treaty, which strenghten the US Dollar, which should help Oil Prices a bit.

The Petrol Station are making good margins.

The Petrol Station across the road from me must be doing well as the owner has an 07 BMW M5, before that he had a Merc SL AMG.

His prices are the lowest in the region, and the place is always busy.

Doe she just sell petrol or does he sell other stuff? My understanding is no garage owner is going to get rich selling petrol.

MrP

vibe666

yeah, I'd be inclined to agree. afaik the petrol stations only earn a few cents per litre of petrol sold and make most of their profits on food & drink and other such stuff.

I seem to remember seeing that there had been a slight drop in the dollar price of a barrel of oil though. Hopefully it's going to keep going down now.

kluivert

MYOB wrote: »

The euro weakening against the dollar puts prices *up*, not helps them down.

Its the same concept as buying currency.

People are buying dollars last month because of the rate regardless if they needed it or not.

The same happened with Crude Oil which is priced in Dollars so speculators where using the good value in the strong Euro to buy cheap oil which pushed up prices as everyone was buying.

Now that this value has reduced the idea behind the concept is that people will trade less in the commodity.

Off course buying crude oil in a stronger oil will be more expensive, but with less people trading in the commodity in theory the price of the commodity should reduce.

kluivert

vibe666 wrote: »

yeah, I'd be inclined to agree. afaik the petrol stations only earn a few cents per litre of petrol sold and make most of their profits on food & drink and other such stuff.

awh yeah he has the usual like, newspapers mags hot and cold foods, car washes the usual like.

ART6

Perhaps this is the time for the EU bureaucrats to stop fiddling with their navels about Lisbon and start thinking about the real problems affecting the people of Europe. As a major trading block the EU must have some influence. If they don't, or can't (and I am personally inclined to the view that the European Commission have become so b****y useless that they don't know how) then let's dismantle the EU and rebuild it into the common market that it was sold to us as in the first place.

Oh bol***cks. Wrong thread!! Oh what the hell, it's part of the same scene.

*puts down the bottle and logs off*

Keith186

Read recently that the retailers are taking 5c or 5% a litre as profit on fuel. There was another 5% for forecort costs etc.

Re EU rule meaning UK Gov can't reduce tax: Shouldn't be the case I don't think they can prevent a Government from charging what taxes they want, even if Lisbin Treaty was passed this would be disputable...

mumhaabu

I for one back the trucker and I hope every truck driver in Ireland blocks Dublin and the motorways the price of Diesel and Petrol is a thundering disgrace despite Oil being $140/barrel the factoid is that untaxed fuel costs around 75 to 80c/litre, the rest is going into the pockets of the Government this taxation is crippling, I know people burning over €130 week to go to work. I hope the blocks the city and should stay on strike for at least 5 days to bring food shortages causing the brainwashed plebs to rebel against BIFFO and co.

It is a disgrace while farmers get untaxed Green Diesel, I think it is high time the Green Diesel was done away with as it will bring parity to the market, the majority of Tractors are used on our roads paying a very little tax, despite the trouble they cause cracking our poorly surfaced roads and the nightmare they cause travelling at 30km/h, being used a lorries with the invariable DUMP (20 tonnes overloaded) trailer.

And they pay no tax while joe soap must fill his truck or commercial vehicle with €1.45/litre Diesel and fork out up to €4k for road tax and pay wages to real drivers on top of that. Mr. Joe Soap can't hire 16yr olds to drive his multi-tonne vehicles and undercut everyone like farmers can. Mr. Joe Soap dosen't get a subsidy from the EU to keep his trucks idle like farmers do.

I have nothing to do with trucking, put I feel their pain but I'd rather be stuck behind an artic doing 50MPH anyday than a 16yrs with a tractor and baler tearing around the place while simultaneously texting and having a mobile stapled to his ear.

Fuel Prices = :mad:

HJL

mumhaabu wrote: »

And they pay no tax while joe soap must fill his truck or commercial vehicle with €1.45/litre Diesel and fork out up to €4k for road tax and pay wages to real drivers on top of that. Mr. Joe Soap can't hire 16yr olds to drive his multi-tonne vehicles and undercut everyone like farmers can. Mr. Joe Soap dosen't get a subsidy from the EU to keep his trucks idle like farmers do.

+1
Some very good points in this post.

Bee

mumhaabu wrote: »

I for one back the trucker and I hope every truck driver in Ireland blocks Dublin and the motorways the price of Diesel and Petrol is a thundering disgrace despite Oil being $140/barrel the factoid is that untaxed fuel costs around 75 to 80c/litre, the rest is going into the pockets of the Government this taxation is crippling, I know people burning over €130 week to go to work. I hope the blocks the city and should stay on strike for at least 5 days to bring food shortages causing the brainwashed plebs to rebel against BIFFO and co.

It is a disgrace while farmers get untaxed Green Diesel, I think it is high time the Green Diesel was done away with as it will bring parity to the market, the majority of Tractors are used on our roads paying a very little tax, despite the trouble they cause cracking our poorly surfaced roads and the nightmare they cause travelling at 30km/h, being used a lorries with the invariable DUMP (20 tonnes overloaded) trailer.

And they pay no tax while joe soap must fill his truck or commercial vehicle with €1.45/litre Diesel and fork out up to €4k for road tax and pay wages to real drivers on top of that. Mr. Joe Soap can't hire 16yr olds to drive his multi-tonne vehicles and undercut everyone like farmers can. Mr. Joe Soap dosen't get a subsidy from the EU to keep his trucks idle like farmers do.

I have nothing to do with trucking, put I feel their pain but I'd rather be stuck behind an artic doing 50MPH anyday than a 16yrs with a tractor and baler tearing around the place while simultaneously texting and having a mobile stapled to his ear.

Fuel Prices = :mad:

Fianna Fail and their Green lick arses are raking in a fortune on VRT,VAT and Excise duty. Remember every increase in the litre of diesel and perol is extra revenue for the Government.

Part of the Diesel price increase is the mis handling of the VRT changes by Johnny Gormless.

Rapacious levels of tax on fuel are totally unjustified

I fully support the truckers action as its the only thing the government understands!

Steve

mumhaabu wrote: »

It is a disgrace while farmers get untaxed Green Diesel, I think it is high time the Green Diesel was done away with as it will bring parity to the market, the majority of Tractors are used on our roads paying a very little tax

I fail to see the logic in this. You want farmers to pay more tax for their fuel, the cost of which will be ultimately passed to the consumer in higher food prices?

The only one that would benefit would be the government (who you say is already crippling us) through higher fuel tax and higher VAT takes, the rest of us, as usual, would have to foot the bill.

budweiserfrogie

Keith186 wrote: »

Read recently that the retailers are taking 5c or 5% a litre as profit on fuel. There was another 5% for forecort costs etc.

Re the above comment.
I'm a fuel retailer and you're not far off the average mark with your 5%.
But i'm afraid the second 5% you mention for forecourt costs would be wishfull thinking on my behalf.
Currently, at 129.9 for unleaded and 139.9 for diesel we are working on about 3% gross profit, and running costs must come out of that 3%.
We also have a supermarket attached which is our main income generater and rely on spin offs,
ie: the motorists hopefully spending a few euro in the shop to make the forecourt worthwhile.
In fact we try to keep the fuel prices as keen as possible and reap the benifits of most customers spending a few more worthwhile euro inside afterwards.

professore

Problem is if we cut fuel tax we'll have to raise income tax or some other tax now that the property market has crashed. Either that or make the public sector more efficient :eek:

Our lifestyle is fcuked anyway ... the price of oil is only going in one direction. Sell your house in commuter belt while you still can get something for it and buy a good bike ! Welcome back to the 1970's.

pburns

stevec wrote: »

I fail to see the logic in this. You want farmers to pay more tax for their fuel, the cost of which will be ultimately passed to the consumer in higher food prices?

The only one that would benefit would be the government (who you say is already crippling us) through higher fuel tax and higher VAT takes, the rest of us, as usual, would have to foot the bill.

+1
I think the boardie in question just has the usual anti-farmer chip-on-the-shoulder. Partly motivated by jealousy no doubt...

Lord Nikon

Maybe we should all think about how we can economize on the fuel we already burn in our motors, and then it might last longer, and save us a few cents too.

Anyway, we all waste our money on other ****e, why can't we all just cut back on it.

Mitch Connor

professore wrote: »

Problem is if we cut fuel tax we'll have to raise income tax or some other tax now that the property market has crashed. Either that or make the public sector more efficient :eek:

Our lifestyle is fcuked anyway ... the price of oil is only going in one direction. Sell your house in commuter belt while you still can get something for it and buy a good bike ! Welcome back to the 1970's.

not really - the argument is that the government is making a lot more in fuel tax as the prices go higher - so if you were to use the actual monetary figures they were getting last year (ignoring percentage) they could reduce fuel tax without losing money in comparison to last year.

badlyparkedmerc

Garages are closing all over the country, and often just being left derelict, pretty much makes it clear they're not rolling in the money.

There's a problem with reducing taxes in the EU, the market currently decides we can just about support 140 dollar a barrel oil even on heavily taxed EU fuel.

There's nothing to stop the market from deciding we could support a much bigger price untaxed.

Think of house price speculation during the bubble, stamp duty went down, the market just added the saving on to the houses price.

vibe666

I'd like to see it happen either way, maybe if the truckers do it for themselves and help the rest of us out in the process, maybe other groups will see that this kind of thing can get wrongs put right and do more of it.

I hate getting stuck behind stuff on the roads, especially when it's some scabby 16yr old driving a tractor in such a way as to specifically make a point of pi$$ing people off, BUT when it serves a higher purpose I'm all for it.

I'd be inclined to spread the word and support the truckers in their efforts to draw attention to this and get as much publicity on it as possible.

galwaytt

the answer is easy, and it isn't even my idea.

Truckers haul freight, the lifeblood of everthing, including food. They should be allowed to use fuel at agri-pricing. There are only 16k vehicles out of a national fleet of......2m?............While it would be impossible to allow them use agri-diesel, for monitoring purposes - all they have to do is submit their fuel bills bi-monthly, like their VAT return, and be rebated by Revenue for the difference between that duty paid at road rate, and agri-rate.

It could even reduce the cost of food, delivered.

Why does it have to be complicated ?

Gregor Samsa

galwaytt wrote: »

the answer is easy, and it isn't even my idea.

Truckers haul freight, the lifeblood of everthing, including food. They should be allowed to use fuel at agri-pricing. There are only 16k vehicles out of a national fleet of......2m?............While it would be impossible to allow them use agri-diesel, for monitoring purposes - all they have to do is submit their fuel bills bi-monthly, like their VAT return, and be rebated by Revenue for the difference between that duty paid at road rate, and agri-rate.

It could even reduce the cost of food, delivered.

Why does it have to be complicated ?

Because tax isn't really the issue here (in regards to commercial drivers anyway).

Duty on fuel is charged at a fixed amount per litre - not a percentage. Only VAT is charged at a percentage. But commercial drivers can already claim their VAT on fuel back - so the Government isn't making anything more out of truckers when diesel is 1.45 a litre than when it was 0.99 a litre.

It's global demand and the regulation of production that is pushing the price up fuel up. And blockading Dublin isn't going to solve that.

The government could reduce duty as a short term measure, but that would really only be a cosmetic gesture. There would be nothing to stop fuel producers from upping their prices, wiping out the duty savings and bringing us right back to square one.

galwaytt

actually, tax IS the issue.

First agri-rate excise is lower than road excise, so there is room there.

Wider than that, however, is the notion that over the last 100 years, tax on fuel has gone from being a fuel and road tax, to a cash-cow tax to fund everything from poor cold tar pothole filling to building hospitals and paying social welfare.

This was a crisis just waiting to happen, and the barrel price of oil has merely been the trigger. It shows that govts have been unable to manage money as a simple current account, and now they're going to need a very, very large overdraft.

Consider - if people did elect for non-fuel transport - foot/pedal/elec/solar, etc, (fanciful, I know.....but we better start thinking about it......), then the revenue streams for a huge part of our society is going to disappear, anyway. The fate of each of us is much more closely tied to the fate of 16k trucks than we know...........

Boggles

budweiserfrogie wrote: »

I'm a fuel retailer

Hi Budweiserfrogie

Could you answer me why when there is an increase in a barrel of oil that garages (the 7-8) around me put up there prices immediately.

I'd imagine that the fuel they already have in there tanks have been paid for or at least a price agreed on.

Not having a go at you mate, just curious. Thanks

L1011

Boggles wrote: »

Hi Budweiserfrogie

Could you answer me why when there is an increase in a barrel of oil that garages (the 7-8) around me put up there prices immediately.

I'd imagine that the fuel they already have in there tanks have been paid for or at least a price agreed on.

Not having a go at you mate, just curious. Thanks

To cover the replacement cost of buying fuel to replace that which is being sold. Standard business practice in a lot of retail lines.

nhughes100

I've no problem with green diesel being provided to hauliers, they are the lifeblood of this economy. Speaking from a commuter's point of view(I do 1000km a week at least) would people be willing to pay the higher costs for fuel if it meant less traffic on the road? There was a headline in a paper last week that read fuel purchases down 20% on last year. Which means to me that people are at last thinking a bit more before jumping in the suv and running little jonny and mary down to the school 200 yards down the road.

I've a fairly fuel efficient car which means I'm spending around 60-65 a week on diesel. When I had a petrol car 4 years ago and doing the same mileage I was spending 45-50 euro. So it ain't actually too bad. Don't get me wrong I'd much rather not be paying 1,40 a litre but if it meant that I was stuck behind the SUV with one water soluble kid hidden in the back of it going to school I think I could ride it out.

Big difference with me +Haulier is that they spend about 1500+ filling up.

KELTICKNIGHTT

Tauren wrote: »

as far as i know there is nothing the government can actually do. Apparently there is some EU rule/law that prevents them from cutting the tax (heard this in relation to the protests in England.

Anyway, it would probably just end up pushing the price of Oil up, or the stations would increase their margins so that there'd be no overall real positive effect for the consumer.

belgium cut there fuel tax so why cant ireland and belgium in eu

KELTICKNIGHTT

at 58% tax on fuel at pumps,the goverment could cut tax on fuel,if belgium can so can ireland,every service raises its cost to cover the price highs,so please
they should blochk every place and do it more than once till the bloody goverment gets the message,so they mighten be able to buy a new fleet of mercs this year for all tds,time the goverment did something,no wonder thet people of ireland rejected the lisbon treaty,people are tired of fat cats like goverment getting fatter,

Biro

MYOB wrote: »

To cover the replacement cost of buying fuel to replace that which is being sold. Standard business practice in a lot of retail lines.

Pity they're not half as quick to reduce it when the price of the barrel goes down!