To Build or Not To Build.....

chris_ie

That is the question!
Have been house hunting for quite a while but can not find a house that myself and my girlfriend can agree on. We've been looking into building recently and think that might be the way to go. I know a few contractors that are getting me quotes to build the house that a site we're looking at has planning permission for.

I have contacted the estate agents and asked for a site test report for the site we are looking for and only got word back there now after a week and she said that site tests weren't done and that they weren't asked for them when they looked for planning permission.

Does this sound ok or dodgy?

The site is pretty flat at the front but a bit raised and boggy at the back but we reckon that if we cleared the top layer of 'bog' that underneath might be fine. There are also a few rocks protruding which kinda makes us think it may be rocky ground and I've been told then that if we hit rock the expense could soar, then also if the ground is boggy we also have a problem!
As I am a complete newbie to building is this a risk with any site or is there some way of getting a good idea before buying?

Any advice would be very much appreciated.

Also, some of the stuff that has to be done before and during the build, even with a contractor, looks quite confusing!

PS - If I posted this in the wrong place, let me know

chris_ie

Anyone?

Quazzie

Try break your post into easily distinguishable point or questions and you are more likely to get a response. As it is its a bit jumbled and you are asking too many specific questions, which we can't answer

sydthebeat

are you actually asking us to advise you whether you should build or not?:eek:

Is it a rural site? if its to connect to a septic tank or effluent treatment system there should be percolation test results....

the estate agent should be able to furnish you with all the documents required... if not you can buy a copy of the planning file from the council.

If you are a 'complete newbie' then its best to engage a professional to manage the project for you.

chris_ie

Broke it up a bit there, sorry

Yeah the house is to have a septic tank, so I figured that there should have been percolation test results but she said there were no tests done, which I found hard to believe.

My initial question about building was that, with building I know we could get the house we desired and also, if we were buying a house for 300k it wouldn't be as good as a house that we could build for around 200k (minus site price). So I'm guessing that building a house would be worth it!

We like the site we are currently looking at, the only problem we have is that we don't know if it is boggy or if thats just a top layer and (the opposite!) we don't know if its rocky, as there are several rock protruding from the ground, although some of it looks soft.

sydthebeat

Go to your council offices and look at the file.

There should be perc test results, and if theres none enquire as to why not?

the perc test results should show you the make-up of the ground conditions as well.... factor all this into working out your build prices...


or engage a professional to do this for you....

chris_ie

Yeah I'll do that. Cheers for this guys. I bought a self building book, but funnily enough I dont think that after reading it I would be able to build a house straight away :P We're going to get a contractor to carry out the work for us and possibly my girlfriends brother will fit the kitchen, floors, doors, skirting etc as he works at stuff like that. So hopefully save some money there, not sure how much.

Einstein

very hard to imagine that planning was given with no perc test done.

Council by far the best bet.

chris_ie

What do I ask for? Just the planning permission file or what? I've seen that the site was denied permission 10 years ago but then was conditional, maybe they decided not to build then. Does it cost much to get this info?

sydthebeat

to see the file its free, theres a charge to get stuff copied.

as said above, if you dont know what youre looking for perhaps engage a professional that does.

Einstein

If you're looking at building your gonna need an architect etc. They can check all that for you as part of the package etc.

I'm building at the moment, feel free to pm me if ye have any Q's

Quazzie

Not sure to your question about the council but I know where I am from its just a matter of going online and checking out all the cases put forward for planning. Don't think this would be backdated to 10 years ago though, but just calling your local Co.Co. and asking for the planning department and they should be able to answer most of your queries over the phone, or if not arrange for a time to come in and view the file.

As for pricing I found it easier to just give drawings to a contractor to get a price then get it broke down and decide where ya think ya might save money or be able to afford to spend a little more in other places i.e insulation. I hope this helps a bit.

chris_ie

Yeah I've given the drawings to the contractor so just waiting on word back. Rang the council there and they said I could call down and see the file as there should have been some tests done. Is there anything is should keep and eye out for? Good/bad things.

muffler

The OP didnt state what conditions were on the permission granted. It could well be that a site assessment to be carried out prior to commencement of the works and submitted to the planning authority for their approval. Read all conditions attached to the grant of permission and adhere to them.

On the other hand it should be noted that it wasnt until June 2007 that it became compulsory to have site assessments carried out nationally. If permission was granted prior to that then it may not have been an issue.

The planning file is free to inspect as already mentioned but theres a chance that it may be available online also.

Quazzie

Just keep an eye for any percolation results which might indicate the state of the ground, also keep an eye for any conditions that might have been implemented on the previous application like if ithere is a certain angle or distance from the road required. This might dictate what size house can be built there. Also keep an eye if they request any certain type of foundation or extra deep foundations because this will all add to the price.

chris_ie

Again, thanks guys, this is really helpful. Muffler, I see your from Donegal, same as. The site in question is in Letterkenny too.

Slig

When was the planning permission obtained? remember that it only has a lifespan of 5 years. I wouldnt put too much stock in the auctioneer getting you the reports. get the PD number off them and go to the council yourself. They will give you the file to look through and will give you copies as you please.
The grant will have certain conditions on it that must be complied with before or throughout construction.
If the site has full planning then you can only build the house that was granted or apply for a change of design.

chris_ie

Ok got the number and the file online here and there are 7 conditions, the percolation area is going to be rather large. Can I post them here to see what you guys think?

I'm going to have others take a look too.

chris_ie

Oh and it was granted : 13/03/2006, for 5 years. We actually quite like the design they have the permission for.

muffler

Just copy and paste the url and we can get a look (fellow Donegal man;))

chris_ie

Cool click here. Sounds like quite a bit to do but maybe its normal?

sydthebeat

eh, the very first condition is a condition tying the occupant to the permission......

how are you able to purchase it?

chris_ie

Hmmm, yeah read that again and the wording does assume the person who currently owns the site. I thought it meant the person building would have to be there for 5 years, i.e. If I bought the site then I would be there 5 years. Would it mean I would have to apply for permission again under my name before/after buying the site?

sydthebeat

no...

have you a solicitor acting for you?

chris_ie

No solicitor yet. We are currently just checking everything out ourselves then if we couldn't find anything wrong we would get a solicitor.

sydthebeat

chris_ie wrote: »

No solicitor yet. We are currently just checking everything out ourselves then if we couldn't find anything wrong we would get a solicitor.

id contact the estate agent and get this clarified first, before you carry things any further.

if they tell you that its sorted, ok, kosher etc ask them for the documents showning that its ok.

chris_ie

Cheers syd, rang the estate agent there and she said it just means that I'd have to be in the house for 5 years, but then when I said about the applicant part she checked with someone and they mentioned to get a solicitor to go through it first and make sure that it could be. So cheers again Syd!

Still none the wiser as to site tests etc, if ground is actually boggy or not etc. and dunno where to go next!

Slig

Hmmmmm, an occupancy clause and an auctioneer who said that there were no reports done? did they not look at the application or just not care?
I dont know of anybody that has challanged an occupation clause, some say its unconstitutional, but I wouldnt think your solicitor would ignore it

chris_ie

Yeah not overly impressed with the amount of information available from the estate agent. The area where the septic tank is to to placed has no signs of test holes or anything which I though was strange, no signs of holes being filled either.

sydthebeat

the planners report states that there was a previous outline that passed a perc test, therefore the planner deemed it sufficient to deal with the disposal of effluent in teh conditions of planning... which they did.

i wouldnt put much faith in an estate agent who did know that there was an occupancy condition.

you may be able to comply if it can be show that you or your partner fulfill the requirements of the local housing need policy....

chris_ie

What kind of requirements?

chris_ie

Ok... how did I not see the related documents part.... :rolleyes:

RKQ

The applicants (two people) applied for two houses and were granted permission. Quote-

1. [FONT=&quot]House shall be for occupancy of the applicant only and said occupancy shall be for a minimum period of five years from the date of the issue of the permission.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Can not see how it can be sold. Talk to your Solicitor.
[/FONT]

Quazzie

Unfortunately Chris I tend to agree with RKQ. It looks like permission was granted as a local needs issue and therefore can only be used by the applicant, in similar fashion to someone looking for permission on family land.

chris_ie

Hmm, yeah seems funny alright. Argh, I'll see what can be done otherwise its back to hoping another good site becomes available. Or what you think of the whole thing about just finding out who owns a piece of land then making an offer?

Quazzie

chris_ie wrote: »

Hmm, yeah seems funny alright. Argh, I'll see what can be done otherwise its back to hoping another good site becomes available. Or what you think of the whole thing about just finding out who owns a piece of land then making an offer?

Its not such a good idea because of the increasing rejection rate of planning permission by various County Councils. I know here in Offaly its public knowledge that its local needs only when it comes to granting planning permission. Thats not to say there are some that slip through the net but its looking like its gonna get harder and harder.

chris_ie

So you reckon that it will be difficult to get planning permission on any site?

sydthebeat

chris_ie wrote: »

So you reckon that it will be difficult to get planning permission on any site?

short answer
yes....

chris_ie

Argh, nothing but set backs! First couldnt find a house we liked so thought we would build, now looks like that could be a non starter too.

Cheers for all this info again. Giving me more of an insight into the whole situation anyways!

sydthebeat

muffler will give you a much better idea regarding the difficulty in getting planning in donegal......

but remember that its policy throughout the country, in the majority of areas, to restrict planning to members of the immediate locality.

Quazzie

It is slightly comforting to think that with the house market in Ireland in decline it is now a bit easier for you to get your money's worth in buying a house. Bad news for the economy but good news for you.

chris_ie

You see I was thinking about the locality thing. My home town is 18miles from Letterkenny and my girlfriends about 30miles. We both attended college in Letterkenny, both lived here for the last 5 or 6 years, both work here, shes a nurse (apparently thats useful for mortgages) and I'm in IT. So could nearly count us as locals!

newname

Chris

If you'd been living in the area for 7 years and could demonstrate a need for housing you could have a chance of getting planning on that site, request a pre planning meeting to discuss it. Check out the county development plan 2006 - 2012 section 5.7.
The planners can be reasonable but they will not bend their rules, so if you can present them with the right information you'd have a good enough chance of planning.

muffler

I've sent a PM to chris_ie which may be of some help.