Accounting-Howd it go for you

drunknmunky_69

so that has to be the worst accounting paper ive ever seen. I was really counting on this exam for marks. Ive worked my ass off for it all year. Went through loads and loads of theory and that screwed me over today among other things.
Definately didnt get my first choice now which i repeated the entire year for. Looks like im going to be taking a course i was offered last year. It feels like a serious waste of a year now like.
feckin christy....he used to be a cool guy..now not so cool

**simone**

lcaccounting wrote: »

Guys,

I am a tutor from <snip> and I want to make a couple of points:

1. There is an error in Q5 and all students who did the question will not be penalised for this.
2. No matter how many times I say this to students they ignore it ' you must cover all the questions - you cannot leave out any area'
3. 100 mark cash flow was widely tipped - lack of preperation is unacceptable
4. Your emails / letters to Dept. mean nothing but may make you feel better.
5. There will be a cashflow question on every accounting exam you do after school. I have done approx 15 cash flow exam questions throughout my career - get used to it!!
6. Personally attacking Christy and his team is 'sour grapes' - the exam was fair - apart from section c q8 which was slighly nasty.
7. This exam has highlighted the importance of 'theory'
8. I agree you should not be using Chr''tys book - it is rubbish, I recommend using examsupport combined with past papers or <snip> which will be live next year.
9. too may students thought that by learning off a few questions they were guaranteed an A.

Best of Luck with the results.

So you reckon we're not supposed to go by predictions but yet your completely supportive of the cash flow 100mks question??

And although i may be being a bit too sympathetic here to LC students, but we CANNOT be expected to learn off ALL the acc course. It is impossible. So the LC has now made itself into more so a predictions game rather than a test of your knowledge on a particular topic.

If we didn't predict things and narrow down our course a bit we would be physically and mentally ill with studying 6, 7, 8 or 9 full courses.



To be honest i'd rather my health thank you very much.

Petie_Pie

If it is a negative bank figure it would mean that instead of havin a bank overdraft ya actually have money in your bank so therefore the bank figure would be in current assets n not liablilities...


Accountin was a load of balls... hope i pass never mind get the A i was wantin... got 84% in the pre:(

rocketosul

lcaccounting wrote: »

Guys,

I am a tutor from <snip>and I want to make a couple of points:

1. There is an error in Q5 and all students who did the question will not be penalised for this.
2. No matter how many times I say this to students they ignore it ' you must cover all the questions - you cannot leave out any area'
3. 100 mark cash flow was widely tipped - lack of preperation is unacceptable
4. Your emails / letters to Dept. mean nothing but may make you feel better.
5. There will be a cashflow question on every accounting exam you do after school. I have done approx 15 cash flow exam questions throughout my career - get used to it!!
6. Personally attacking Christy and his team is 'sour grapes' - the exam was fair - apart from section c q8 which was slighly nasty.
7. This exam has highlighted the importance of 'theory'
8. I agree you should not be using Chr''tys book - it is rubbish, I recommend using examsupport combined with past papers or <snip>which will be live next year.
9. too may students thought that by learning off a few questions they were guaranteed an A.

Best of Luck with the results.

How were 100 mark cash flows widely tipped??? they hadnt come up in over ten years....and this forum is clearly evidence that the exam was not fair. They couldnt have made it much harder!! theory questions were awful, other years have been much easier and quite repetitive. i'd never seen some of this years

lcaccounting

titan18 wrote: »

Some of the theory isnt on the course and would never have been covered by any teacher.I used past papers.None of the questions I practiced helped me in the suspense in any way

Fact: All the theory is on the course and I have covered all of it with my students.

I disagree that all the questions available (around 25) could 'not help a student in any way'. I would predict (but could be wrong) that you possibly had access to 6 or 7 suspense questions and thats why you make the statement you made - again lack of preperation.

alan4cult

Guys,

I am a tutor from <snip>and I want to make a couple of points:

1. There is an error in Q5 and all students who did the question will not be penalised for this.
2. No matter how many times I say this to students they ignore it ' you must cover all the questions - you cannot leave out any area' We are leaving cert students, there were theory questions on that paper that weren't in the book. And I as a student did cover all the questions but you have to prioritise things. We have 7/8 other subjects
3. 100 mark cash flow was widely tipped - lack of preperation is unacceptable 100 mark cash flow was tipped for the last 5 years, get over it.
4. Your emails / letters to Dept. mean nothing but may make you feel better. Agreed
5. There will be a cashflow question on every accounting exam you do after school. I have done approx 15 cash flow exam questions throughout my career - get used to it!! Every person who does accounting for the LC won't be an accountant after school. Some though it for points.
6. Personally attacking Christy and his team is 'sour grapes' - the exam was fair - apart from section c q8 which was slighly nasty. 9 Sole Trader workings is fair? There is a time limit you know?
7. This exam has highlighted the importance of 'theory' The exam used theory to catch students out.
8. I agree you should not be using Chr''tys book - it is rubbish, I recommend using examsupport combined with past papers or <snip> which will be live next year. Agreed Nice Plug!
9. too may students thought that by learning off a few questions they were guaranteed an A. It has worked for students for years.

Best of Luck with the results.

diddley

pity u didn't come online before and tell your 'tips' instead of afterwards saying that students weren't prepared.

titan18

lcaccounting wrote: »

Fact: All the theory is on the course and I have covered all of it with my students.

I disagree that all the questions available (around 25) could 'not help a student in any way'. I would predict (but could be wrong) that you possibly had access to 6 or 7 suspense questions and thats why you make the statement you made - again lack of preperation.

Around 25 questions in the past papers on suspense?Are you sure you're feeling ok?Are you actually a teacher?

Turquoise

Guys,

I am a tutor from <snip>and I want to make a couple of points:

1. There is an error in Q5 and all students who did the question will not be penalised for this.
2. No matter how many times I say this to students they ignore it ' you must cover all the questions - you cannot leave out any area'
3. 100 mark cash flow was widely tipped - lack of preperation is unacceptable
4. Your emails / letters to Dept. mean nothing but may make you feel better.
5. There will be a cashflow question on every accounting exam you do after school. I have done approx 15 cash flow exam questions throughout my career - get used to it!!
6. Personally attacking Christy and his team is 'sour grapes' - the exam was fair - apart from section c q8 which was slighly nasty.
7. This exam has highlighted the importance of 'theory'
8. I agree you should not be using Chr''tys book - it is rubbish, I recommend using examsupport combined with past papers or <snip> which will be live next year.
9. too may students thought that by learning off a few questions they were guaranteed an A.

Best of Luck with the results.

I find your post infuriating.
I didn't "learn off a few questions" - I studied every question on the course bar Interpretation of accounts. I've done all the other suspense accounts in the papers from the last however many years - they all follow a pattern, they all have very similar errors etc. This one was completely different and no amount of study would have enabled me to do them.
I also studied past theory, and theory that very clearly related to accounts - reasons why one prepares such accounts, what they contain, limitations etc. That's not what they tested.

I worked hard for this grade and now I probably won't get my course. I think I'm entitled to "sour grapes". I'm glad your site will be live NEXT YEAR, but its a bit bloody late thank you very much - and like I said, past papers did no good when it came to that suspense.

alan4cult

lcaccounting wrote: »

Fact: All the theory is on the course and I have covered all of it with my students.

Well done, of course it's on the course but is it in the book?

BlueCam

lcaccounting wrote: »

4. Your emails / letters to Dept. mean nothing but may make you feel better.

Have to say, mine has sure done that!!

Dear Minister,

I am a Leaving Certificate student from Bray, Wicklow County. I would not normally make it my business to email politicians (teenagers aren't interested in politics, so the stereotype goes), but having just finished my Accounting examination, I will put this bluntly: the paper with which I was presented was a disgrace.

I am speaking from the point of view of someone who got 90% in a mock exam just last February. I know mocks are not necessarily accurate reflections of one's ability or how one will do in a real exam, but you will forgive me if I say that I was looking for (and indeed, was quite confident of getting) an A1. I believe I will now be lucky to get a B3.

For your benefit, and to flame my own anger at this paper, I will list out just everything at which I am annoyed.

1. A Sole Trader question was placed on the paper, when a Manufacturing was due.

2. Nine adjustments were included with said question. Never mind that this is more than usual; almost every adjustment contained several parts whose correctness depended on each other.

3. Club Accounts and Published Accounts, both of which were due to appear as 100-mark question, came up as 60-markers.

4. A Cash Flow Statement appeared as a 100-marker. This is only the second time this has ever happened; the last time was ten years ago.

5. Several figures listed in the Interpretation question were incorrect. I speak of the figures listed for the previous year. Dividend cover can be calculated by dividing EPS by DPS. 18/5 = 3.6 times. The figure listed is 3 times. Meanwhile, dividend yield can be calculated by dividing DPS by the market value of a share, and multiplying by 100 since it is a percentage. 5/135x100 = 3.7%. The figure listed is 6%.

6. The theory asked on the aforementioned Interpretation question was completely unfair: it is not even contained in the 634-page book by Christy Tyrrell, the person, I believe, who wrote the exam. It is worth 15 marks, and therefore effectively acts as an 'A1-blocker' on this question. And it is quite effective doing this; believe me.

7. The theory asked on the Cash Flow Statement question is similarly effective in blocking anyone from obtaining an A1. It asks not for a note on the Accounting Standards Board - which would be somewhat reasonable - but instead, asks for a note on how it has "influenced the preparation of Cash Flow Statements". Now I'm not sure if it is just me, but I don't remember signing up for a subject called The History of Accounting in Ireland during the 20th and 21st Centuries. This question, like that asked in Interpretation, is not dealt with in Mr. Tyrrell's book.

8. Four of the five adjustments asked in the Suspense question have never, in the eleven years of this subject, been asked before.

9. Marginal Costing and Flexible Budgets (section three questions) have only ever been asked as single questions, therefore meaning one would have 36 minutes in which to answer one of them. This year, they appeared in the same question. And they were not even shortened versions - the workings needed to obtain a correct answer are exactly the same, and thus take exactly the same amount of time to complete. In addition, one of the adjustments (number four) in Marginal Costing has never been asked in any form before.

10. Neither questions in the theory part of the Budgeting question are dealt with in Mr. Tyrrell's book.

Firstly, I fully accept that it was my choice (and the choice of every student, I daresay) to concentrate my studies on questions with the highest possibility of appearing on the paper. Further, I would have no problem whatsoever if, perhaps, one or two questions were 'messed with'. That would make a challenging paper, something which I would genuinely have loved. However, there is a vast difference between creating a challenging paper and one that is simply designed to screw over ordinary students. And this paper, I hesitate not in saying, goes out of its way to screw us over. Excuse the colloquialisms, but that is how I feel.

Secondly, the theory contained in the paper is so remote and hidden in the depths of Mr. Tyrrell's 634-page book that it is completely unreasonable to expect any normal student (indeed, a certified accountant) to have any great knowledge of it. The fact that some of it is not even included in the book is simply laughable.

Finally, that several of the figures contained in one of the questions were wrong can only lead one to the conclusion that this paper, quite simply, has absolutely no credibility. (And I would also point out that even though I am aware students will not be penalised for these mistakes, the ten minutes I spent attempting to find out where my own calculations had gone wrong has undoubtedly cost me many more marks in an exam as time-constrained as this.)

I believe that the normal 'A-rate' for Accounting stands at around 40%. Based on my experience of this paper, I can guarantee you that this year, this figure will be nowhere near as high. Talking to my friend yesterday, he said to me that if I were offered an A2 grade there and then, whether I would accept it. I said no. Understandably, I am now reconsidering my answer.

Yours sincerely,
xxx.

rocketosul

Turquoise wrote: »

I find your post infuriating.
I didn't "learn off a few questions" - I studied every question on the course bar Interpretation of accounts. I've done all the other suspense accounts in the papers from the last however many years - they all follow a pattern, they all have very similar errors etc. This one was completely different and no amount of study would have enabled me to do them.
I also studied past theory, and theory that very clearly related to accounts - reasons why one prepares such accounts, what they contain, limitations etc. That's not what they tested.

I worked hard for this grade and now I probably won't get my course. I think I'm entitled to "sour grapes". I'm glad your site will be live NEXT YEAR, but its a bit bloody late thank you very much - and like I said, past papers did no good when it came to that suspense.

Couldnt agree more. I did every suspense from the past papers and they all follow a trend EXCEPT the 1 on the exam.

Turquoise

What was the purpose of you posting on here? A cyber slap across the face maybe?
A little "My students are going to do better than you, because I prepared them, nah nah nah nah nah!" ? Thanks for that.

What's the bet you're a teacher in a private school?

lcaccounting

titan18 wrote: »

Around 25 questions in the past papers on suspense?Are you sure you're feeling ok?Are you actually a teacher?

Did I use the phrase ' past papers'? No.

Mock papers, old syllabus, other 'teacher only ' sources - they are 6 in past papers - 4 100 markers and 2 60 markers. Your teacher should have supplied you with these.

Jiggy

i dont want to sound like a prick or anything like that but that paper was full of patterns

Sole Trader 1999 - 2003 - 2006 ( 4 -3 -2)

Ratio's ( like thats gonna leave)

Suspense had come up in 05 and was hinted alot by podcasts and whatnot

Production Budget it follows a pattern for the 3 budgets it was simply the year for a production budget

BUT the amount of people who told me today that manufacturing would come up and that there was no chance of sole trader , 4 A1 students and teacher most notably

yet i must admit seeing the just even that block S on the first page made me feel like a right prick xD

titan18

lcaccounting wrote: »

Did I use the phrase ' past papers'? No.

Mock papers, old syllabus, other 'teacher only ' sources - they are 6 in past papers - 4 100 markers and 2 60 markers. Your teacher should have supplied you with these.

I used the phrase 'past papers' in my original post which you replied to.Yes,my teacher did mock papers,past papers and a load of other questions that I dont know where he got from.I've never seen most of the suspense question.I've also revision courses in accounting and day courses in the run up to the exam.Nobody has ever covered anything in that suspense question and most of the theory.The person who designed this paper is sick and probably delights at our misery.

PS:Please come on here when you get your students' results and post them

Ekels

This is a little ridiculous teachers! Fair enough, you do put huge effort into your classes and preparing your students as best possible. Not every teacher is as diligent as you, as shown by the fact that they don't log onto this messageboard to discuss the exam with students.

Furthermore, if there was a trend graph for exam difficulty, this one would be off the chart, compared to other years. Very few teachers in the country could have prepared their students for that exam.

As I've said, we spent an hour a night studying accounting for the last 2 years. That's hard graft, the fact that the teachers here are highlighting massive extra amounts of work that should have been done by us is a bit ridiculous, from my perspective.

drunknmunky_69

Jiggy wrote: »

i dont want to sound like a prick or anything like that but that paper was full of patterns

Sole Trader 1999 - 2003 - 2006 ( 4 -3 -2)

Ratio's ( like thats gonna leave)

Suspense had come up in 05 and was hinted alot by podcasts and whatnot

Production Budget it follows a pattern for the 3 budgets it was simply the year for a production budget

BUT the amount of people who told me today that manufacturing would come up and that there was no chance of sole trader , 4 A1 students and teacher most notably

yet i must admit seeing the just even that block S on the first page made me feel like a right prick xD

ya fair enough i agree.the pattern was very predictable. I opened it and was delighted. Until i actually began the questions. Every one of them was trying to be difficult especially suspense. Only nice one was the budget.

Theory was also horrible apart from a part or two.

If they feel the accounting course is too predictable they should change it. Not throw up a paper like that. It doesnt reflect the hard work many students will ahve put into this subject.

jjam2116

I only studied 100 mark cash flows because I saw the tipped here so I was pretty happy when that came up!!

What was the error in question 5, was it the theory?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055287160&highlight=Cash+flow

Could someone post a list of the questions asked i.e
1 - Sole Trader
2 - ?

etc

Secondly, could someone please also post the theory questions that were asked?

I do not have access to the paper, but would very much like to view it, or a summary of it

**simone**

lcaccounting wrote: »

Unfortunately you dont pay my mortgage but my students do. Best of Luck.

You are pretty immature and boastful for a teacher?



And what happens when a huge majority of students can't afford your "expert opinion"???

Turquoise

lcaccounting wrote: »

Did I use the phrase ' past papers'? No.

Eh, yes, yes you did. Please re-read your post.

Ekels

Jiggy wrote: »

i dont want to sound like a prick or anything like that but that paper was full of patterns

Sole Trader 1999 - 2003 - 2006 ( 4 -3 -2)

Ratio's ( like thats gonna leave)

Suspense had come up in 05 and was hinted alot by podcasts and whatnot

Production Budget it follows a pattern for the 3 budgets it was simply the year for a production budget

BUT the amount of people who told me today that manufacturing would come up and that there was no chance of sole trader , 4 A1 students and teacher most notably

yet i must admit seeing the just even that block S on the first page made me feel like a right prick xD

I had every single question you've mentioned prepared. You're ignoring the difficulty of the individual questions.

Although I had all 3 final accounts prepared, it's fairly obvious that manufacturing was due. Yet, it is the easiest final account (outside of departmental). The fact that they ignored this viable option is suggestive of their desire to give us students a right cúnt of a paper.

**simone**

Deleted User wrote: »

Could someone post a list of the questions asked i.e
1 - Sole Trader
2 - ?

etc

Secondly, could someone please also post the theory questions that were asked?

I do not have access to the paper, but would very much like to view it, or a summary of it

Q1 - Sole trader
Q2 - Creditors (?)
Q3 - Club a/c
Q4 - Published
Q5 - interpretation
Q6 - Cash Flow
Q7 - Suspense
Q8 - Marginal & fllexi (?)
Q9 - Production budget.





Theory... Things like pricipal budget factor, Accounting Board.... (?) I'd rather forget!!!

Turquoise

You can view the paper here:

http://www.examinations.ie/index.php?l=en&mc=en&sc=ep&formAction=subject


Lcaccounting - are you a teacher in a private school?

lcaccounting

Deleted User wrote: »

Could someone post a list of the questions asked i.e
1 - Sole Trader
2 - ?

etc

Secondly, could someone please also post the theory questions that were asked?

I do not have access to the paper, but would very much like to view it, or a summary of it

Questions paper is available:

http://www.examinations.ie/archive/exampapers/2008/LC032ALP000EV.pdf

Slashman X

Wait a minute, theres an accounting book?? When the hell did this happen, we've been learning off handwritten sheets for the past 2 years

alan4cult

lcaccounting wrote: »

Did I use the phrase ' past papers'? No.

Mock papers, old syllabus, other 'teacher only ' sources - they are 6 in past papers - 4 100 markers and 2 60 markers. Your teacher should have supplied you with these.

So are you blaming the teachers for this?

ZorbaTehZ

Turquoise wrote: »

What was the purpose of you posting on here? A cyber slap across the face maybe?

qft, lcaccounting, would you ever just piss off. These students just got out of their exam and are clearly distressed by it. Of what benefit was that post? Very very ignorant of you, and if your lack of understanding is at all indicative of your ability as a teacher, then I pity your students. :mad:

alan4cult

lcaccounting wrote: »

c) not have covered all theory - whether in the book or not

Am can you define all the theory and please don't post a link to the syllabus as I have read it. If this was a theory exam then fair enough but using specific theory to steal a students A1 is pathetic.