animals became wild because of humans

artieanna

I read an interesting piece lately (can't for the life of me remember where) that all animals at the beginning of time were tame and had no fear of humans. Because humans then hunted and selected animals for their use, fear of the human developed and evolved through generations of wild animals.

Eden must have been one cool garden!!:cool:

What do you think of this theory?

Roen

I wonder was the reverse true too? Humans (or our precursors) having no fear of poisonous/dangerous creatures.

I know that we are now 'pre-programmed' to fear spiders and snakes etc and also to react to certain tastes that can indicate poisons.

I guess there is still evidence of the tameness of animals in places like the Galapagos where you can wander up to animals, and even in places like the Saltees you can get within a few feet of thousands of Gannets and they don't really mind at all.

gerky

While it can't really be said for certain if its true or not its very much true of some uninhabited islands where even in very recent times animals with no real fear of humans have been observed particularly birds as Roen said.

I would doubt its fully true of all animals but I suppose theres no real way of knowing.

Nothingcompares

artieanna wrote: »

I read an interesting piece lately (can't for the life of me remember where) that all animals at the beginning of time were tame and had no fear of humans. Because humans then hunted and selected animals for their use, fear of the human developed and evolved through generations of wild animals.

Eden must have been one cool garden!!:cool:

What do you think of this theory?

It's nonsense to a large degree.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

It's nonsense of course because there were many many predators before man came on the scene. This ideal island where all the animals are tame can only exist if for some reason there are no predators.

Alun

But don't animals recognise, or learn from their parents / peers, what other species are considered dangerous and what aren't? Certain species seem to get on just fine living in close proximity in the wild if they know they aren't a threat to each other, so why shouldn't that apply to humans as well if they were at some point in history non-hunters and therefore not a threat?

megadodge

Complete rubbish.
It suggests that man is the only hunter out there !

I know that we are now 'pre-programmed' to fear spiders and snakes etc

No we're not.

I remember seeing a programme some 10+ years ago dealing with fear/phobias etc. and it showed a group of toddlers in a room playing. A big (but harmless) snake was released and wound it's way through them. Most adults would have been horrified in a similar situation, but the kids kept playing and some even grabbed the snake.

Moral of the story - you have to be taught to fear !

gerky

I don't think artieanna is saying that all animals lived in harmony or anything like that.
I think whats meant by it is that there may have been a point in ancient history when a lot of animals hadn't yet seen humans as a big danger.

And presumably there were instances somewhat similar to this with some animals in the past when humans were migrating away from where we originated, even now there are areas and islands where humans don't live and some animals in these places are bizarrely tame around humans.

As far as I remember David Attenborough did a piece on one of his programs about this.

dogmatix

gerky wrote: »

I don't think artieanna is saying that all animals lived in harmony or anything like that. I think whats meant by it is that there may have been a point in ancient history when a lot of animals hadn't yet seen humans as a big danger.

I agree. One of the theorys put forward for the sudden extinction of the magnificent american mega-fauna was the sudden arrival of the native americans from about 13000 years ago. None of the animals regarded the humans as a danger - they where not "programmed" to regard them so. And so with 300-400 years most of the large animals where gone - three distinct species of elephant, giant bison, the horse and of course they fearsome carnivores that preyed on these animals now had nothing to eat so they became extinct too.

This always happens when humans move into areas they had never been before - Australia, New Zealand, Mauritious (the Dodo anyone?).

You can contrast this with Africa where the mega-fauna there evolved alongside humans so where well aware of mans capability. It's really only since the gun came on the scene that the African mega-fauna is now seriously in danger.

JonThom

artieanna wrote: »

"at the beginning of time"

Are we talking Creationist nonsense here, because very little of what you've said makes sense in a scientific context.

gerky

JonThom wrote: »

Are we talking Creationist nonsense here, because very little of what you've said makes sense in a scientific context.

Where exactly was creationism mentioned, she referenced the garden of eden is that what your referring to?
I've probably referenced it before I've probably referred to adam and eve too, does that mean I believe in creationism, that would be a no.

As myself and others posted above there is evidence to partially backup the theory that some animals didn't or don't have a fear of humans, unfortunatly it usually ends badly with the animals being hunted to extinction.

JonThom

Well the original poster referred to the "beginning of time", and also mentioned Eden. When was this imaginary beginning of time? Did humans and animals just appear there at this beginning? And what has Eden got to do with anything?

In relation to animals innate fear of humans, it may be true that animals who have never seen or encountered a human before might not initially fear one. Animals in the wild fear their known predators, which they are wary of either by instinct (inherited knowledge), or by learned experience.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Maybe Atrieanna will come back on and enlighten us of what exactly the original question was meant to ask.

fits

gerky wrote: »

As myself and others posted above there is evidence to partially backup the theory that some animals didn't or don't have a fear of humans, unfortunatly it usually ends badly with the animals being hunted to extinction.

Not just evidence. Animals (and birds) have no fear of humans in the Galapagos Islands (despite animals such as the giant tortoise being hunted extensively when human settlers first arrived).

meathstevie

The whole theory of animals becoming wild because of humans is indeed nonsense. Animals react to what they deem to be a danger to their safety and that's any predator. Sometimes it takes a while for an animal or a species to find out what's a predator and what's not when a new one comes on the scene.

For example when the Dutch first settled South-Africa they were able to hunt one of the most agressive and weary animals in the region on horseback without too much trouble : the buffalo. Try to appproach one now, on foot or on horseback : either your aim is true or you're lightning fast if not your funeral will be arranged.

magicbastarder

JonThom wrote: »

Well the original poster referred to the "beginning of time", and also mentioned Eden.

it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that she was speaking metaphorically.

anyway, the percentage of megafauna which survives in africa is greater than the percentage of megafauna which survives in other continents - even though - and because - most of the evolution of man happened on the african continent. animals in africa evolved alongside humans, and the burgeoning hunting skills of humans. so they found themselves in an evolutionary race, and evolved mechanisms to cope with being hunted by humans. animals on other continents did not enjoy this period of 'luxury'.

of course, it's not as black and white as the above suggests, as there are climatic and other forces at play too, in extinctions and animal migrations.

artieanna

Okay its just an article that I read and it highlighted something I had never really considered before. My wording like the "beginning of time" was not implying creationism at all. "eden" was just thrown in as a well known example for fun. I was just interested to see what people thought about the theory.

Like why would animals fear man if he was no threat to them?
When animals he hunted were aware of this new predator (man) naturally they became fearful of him. I am not saying man is the only hunter at all, naturally animals have to survive by hunting too and are hunted by predators.

As roen said we probably copped on pretty quick to our predators and so we learned to fear some animals as we do.

There is evidence to suggest that animals trust of man still exists on some remote islands and some animals do co exist peacefully.

Remember David attenborough with the monkeys, they allowed him into the group and were curious of him, but they were not afraid. Gosh it must have been an amazing experience.

Pye

I don't think it's a case of animals trust of man. It's more the fact they have no predators and haven't had during the course of their evolution. I have raised many young animals who's parents weren't around. I'd say certain ones became fearful on their own with no parental intervention, it's part of their make-up which came about from evolving in a world where they lived alongside their predators. This causes such animals to have inbuilt fear responses some caused by their very nature and others caused by parental intervention (as in, the snake experiment with the young human children). Rabbits are fearful without being taught this action by their parents. I've found all young rabbits become fearful and "paranoid" at a young age. This fear can be eased but never eradicated which suggests they have developed this reaction throughout years of evolution.

DishonestPikey

artieanna wrote: »

I read an interesting piece lately (can't for the life of me remember where) that all animals at the beginning of time were tame and had no fear of humans. Because humans then hunted and selected animals for their use, fear of the human developed and evolved through generations of wild animals.

Eden must have been one cool garden!!:cool:

What do you think of this theory?

Dinosaurs were tame?? Seriously though you must have read it on a creationist site.

artieanna

Ahh nope, it was in a newspaper I read it...only couple of weeks back..