Race-baiting

gogglebok

Dinter wrote: »

The first post is this:

"anybody else find black people niggards? i mean, im from cavan and apparantly we are the most niggardly people according to irish slagging legend. i just happened . . . round of drinks... was it just him or are all black people niggards ?(without wanting to tar an entire race with the same brush!)?"

I would have thought it was pretty obvious it's not a serious or racist thread when in his first post the op puts his own county down.

If you think it sounds familiar to the other "N" word I'd say that unless it's actually mentioned I don't think people should take it upon themselves to think that they somehow know what another posters intentions are.

But you've just discussed your reading of the original poster's intentions, so I don't think that's a principle you can seriously espouse.

I didn't want to discuss motives, but I suppose it's inevitable. In this specific case, the mention of Cavan looks to me like a very thin-fig leaf for the ****** pun and the tar-brush joke.

That's not to say that I think anyone on the thread is necessarily a racist. The other option I offered is that it's the kind of pub chat that we have with a bunch of friends, which we wouldn't have if there was a black stranger at the table. If that's the case, it's based on the assumption that only white people are at the table. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Dinter wrote: »

Also if Dudess is ok with it that's usually a pretty good sign that it's not a pejorative thread!!

As I said, there are posters in the AH thread for whom I have the greatest respect.

gogglebok

biko wrote: »

AH is the forum that brought you "I really hate Roma" about hating a certain spaghetti sauce. Along with the threads entitled "I hate travellers!" (about back-packers), "Too many poles in Dublin" (as in the solid phallic structures), "Send those monkeys back to the jungle" (about actual monkeys and the issue of animals in captivity).
Threads collected by Dudess

If I was in England and a lot of people had a conversation about how much they hated Paddies, it wouldn't really placate me if they threw in a few rice references.

But as I pointed out in my original post, I'm pretty new here. I may be misreading the culture. My unease with the AH thread (and very possibly those others, if I'd seen them) may put me in a minority.

Rb

DesF wrote: »

I'm sick to the back teeth of PC-do-gooders getting offended on behalf of others.

Agreed.

Seriously, wtf? Do people not have other things in life to be concerned about? is this some kick back from the Celtic Tiger, that most things in peoples lives seem to be going ok so they have to find other things to get annoyed about (in Ireland anyway?)

From what I can see, it's mainly middle class people who are these PC do-gooders, which would sincerely suggest that the above is true, that they simply don't have anything else to moan about.

I could almost bet that the OP is a white, middle class person. There's black people (or at least 1) on Boards who don't seem to give a shíte about that thread.

gogglebok

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

All in all, it's generally OK to poke fun at these stereotypes. In a lot of ways, it's no different to the drunken, red haired Irishman - it never actually offends, even if it can get very tiresome seeing those stereotypes in a lot of American productions. It's just light hearted. If you look at a lot of black comedians, some of their best materials are based around having a laugh at stereotypes. (Chris Rock - how not to get beat up by the police )

Recently enough we were watching Diary of the Dead on a large screen, and there was a bunch of us - in the scene where all the characters ask the black guys for supples one of my friends shouts "Take the guns, just leave the fried chicken and watermelon!"

Stereotypes can be amusing, and playing on such in good humor is not an indication of being racist.

I'm all for freedom in comedy, but I don't think it's accurate to say that these stereotypes never offend or hurt people. From one of my favourite songs:

I'm sick of watching them break up
Every time some bird brain puts us down
Making jokes on the radio....

I'm also not saying that race jokes can't be funny. Some of them plainly are. I think the moral question is one of context, not content. I know some cracking paedophile jokes, but I'm not going to tell them at One In Four's next AGM. Would your friend have made the watermelon joke if he was sitting beside a black person?

The consensus here seems to be that AH is the kind of context where race jokes are OK, and people are generally happy with that. Is that a fair summary?

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

_blank_

gogglebok wrote: »

I know some cracking paedophile jokes, but I'm not going to tell them at One In Four's next AGM. Would your friend have made the watermelon joke if he was sitting beside a black person?

Erm, AH isn't a Black Panther's rally, so your little One In Four illustration is way wide of the mark, imo.

gogglebok

Rb wrote: »

Seriously, wtf? Do people not have other things in life to be concerned about? is this some kick back from the Celtic Tiger, that most things in peoples lives seem to be going ok so they have to find other things to get annoyed about (in Ireland anyway?)

I'm not annoyed, and have never suggested I was. I am curious to see your scale of "things in life to be concerned about", though. My post was apparently not worth making, but is worth deploring. How does that work? Have I added to the sum of human seriousness?

That's a lot more than I expected from the day when I rolled out of my bunk at PC Brigade Headquarters, saluted the carefully non-denominational flag, and set about the overthrow of all free speech.

copacetic

DesF wrote: »

Erm, AH isn't a Black Panther's rally, so your little One In Four illustration is way wide of the mark, imo.

ffs Des, equating one in four with the black panthers is a lot further off the mark that his attempt. We seem to be basically saying that it is grand because as far as we know no-one who is black has complained. If they do we will just tell them they are being a 'bit silly' and to run along now and stop being so niggardly and have a little laugh in our sleeves.

gogglebok

DesF wrote: »

Erm, AH isn't a Black Panther's rally, so your little One In Four illustration is way wide of the mark, imo.

And a Black Panther's rally isn't the only place people get upset about the use of the word ******. But I don't want to draw you into a game of analogy ping pong. All I'm saying is that certain jokes are inappropriate in certain contexts, regardless of the quality of the joke.

I've said several times here that I'm fairly new here and am trying to feel my way into the culture. That's why I'm asking questions, not striking positions or making accusations.

That's also why I think "Get a fúcking life you numpty" was a bit off.

_blank_

gogglebok wrote: »

That's also why I think "Get a fúcking life you numpty" was a bit off.

Ah ok, that.

It wasn't directed specifically at you.

It was direted at

PC-do-gooders getting offended on behalf of others.

Dinter

gogglebok wrote: »

I'm all for freedom in comedy, but I don't think it's accurate to say that these stereotypes never offend or hurt people. From one of my favourite songs:

I'm also not saying that race jokes can't be funny. Some of them plainly are.

I thought the whole issue was that people were saying niggardly as a pointed reference to *******.

Now you're saying that the issue is that black people are being called stingy??

Is it racist to use a similar word to ****** or is it racist to say black people are mean? It obviously can't be both, or can it or what exactly is this argument about. I'm actually confusing myself at this point.

Still it seems to be a bit of a tautology either way.

_blank_

Dinter wrote: »

Still it seems to be a bit of a tautology either way.

That's fairly offensive to tautologists.

gogglebok

DesF wrote: »

Ah ok, that.

It wasn't directed specifically at you.

Come off it, Des. It was a reply to my post. It was directed at me.

_blank_

gogglebok wrote: »

Come off it, Des. It was a reply to my post. It was directed at me.

Seriously, it wasn't.

It was directed at people who get offended on other people's behalf.

Give the full quote, in context.

Very true.

I'm sick to the back teeth of PC-do-gooders getting offended on behalf of others.

Get a fúcking life you numpty.

gogglebok

Dinter wrote: »

Now you're saying that the issue is that black people are being called stingy??

God, no. That couldn't further be from what I'm saying if it was swimming in the opposite direction with a jet-pack sticking out of its ass.

My concern about the thread is that it comes across as a thinly-veiled excuse to be use the word "******". The "stinginess" thing is a red herring, introduced in the first post. That wasn't seriously suggesting that black people are mean, and nobody took it to be. It was making a joke about calling black people a word that sounds like ******.

Can I ask a question that might simplify things? Why is the word "spades" one of the thread tags?

copacetic

Dinter wrote: »

I thought the whole issue was that people were saying niggardly as a pointed reference to *******.

Now you're saying that the issue is that black people are being called stingy??

Is it racist to use a similar word to ****** or is it racist to say black people are mean? It obviously can't be both, or can it or what exactly is this argument about. I'm actually confusing myself at this point.

Still it seems to be a bit of a tautology either way.

I think the point was that it is clearly meant to liken niggardly to the N word, but even if you ignore that (which the mods seem to be doing), the thread is still racist. So the thread is racist both ways.

Even the OP admitted he was trying to take a shot at the PC brigade on the first page ( by trying to post a racist thread that he would be let away with apparently).

biko

gogglebok wrote: »

But as I pointed out in my original post, I'm pretty new here. I may be misreading the culture. My unease with the AH thread (and very possibly those others, if I'd seen them) may put me in a minority.

Don't worry. As you say, you're new. AH takes a bit getting used to.
It is quite heavily moderated by AH mods who know the forum well and usually make the right decisions. Besides them are Cmods and Smods that can step in to help out. Finally there are ordinary posters that report posts to bring them to the mods' attention, using the button.

In time you'll be as cynical and sarcastic as the rest of us Btw take time to explore the rest of the site. It's much better/helpful outside AH I promise.

Dinter

DesF wrote: »

Seriously, it wasn't.

It was directed at people who get offended on other people's behalf.

Give the full quote, in context.

We could always start another thread now to see whether your comment was putting particular emphasis on particular pc do-gooders or whether it was a general comment on all pc do-gooders.

Then another thread to decide whether googlebok is a pc dogooder and if so, is it as one of the pc dogooders you referred to originally or the group your comment could have referred to if that was actually decided one way or the other in the first thread.

Then we would probably need another thread to decide if do gooders should be referred to as this or is it a stereotype. If it is a stereotype is it accurate or perjorative.

Sprinkle a few polls in and we'll soon have taken over all of feedback and be hammering at the door of the Thuinderdome!!

gogglebok

biko wrote: »

In time you'll be as cynical and sarcastic as the rest of us Btw take time to explore the rest of the site. It's much better/helpful outside AH I promise.

Ah yes, I'm looking forward to my crabbed decline.

Seriously, I really enjoy the whole place. Boards is a stone-cold guarantee that I will have the least productive summer ever. I mean that as a good thing. The fact that it's moderated on an unpaid basis is just admirable. It sounds like a gargantuan workload, and if I had to carry it I would bitch about it from dawn till dusk.

Terry

Hi.
Someone thought it would be funny to label black people as stingy by using a word that resembles the n word.

It's really not worth your while getting upset by something like this.

Just get drunk and enjoy the show.
That's what works for me.

Bye.


Hi again.
The tags have been edited.
Bye.

gogglebok

Terry wrote: »

The tags have been edited.

I asked for it to be explained rather than changed, but thanks. I'm sure the explanation will come. Meantime, I'm glad I'm not be the only one who is uncomfortable with the term "spades". The new tag is a witty stab at troglodytes who are prodded out of their vileness only with a girlish pout of reluctance, right?

For what it's worth, I like the policy as outlined by Karoma of having a self-regulating community and a very broad attitude to "bad taste". I'm still not happy with the original thread, but I'm not happy with my back hair either and I don't expect boards to come pluck me.*

Thanks to everyone for the replies. If anyone wants me, I'll be looking up "numpty" in the OED and seeing if my comrades and I have enough material for a class-action suit.


*Actually my back is marble-smooth and loved by multitudes.

orestes

I reported the tags earlier cos I thought they could cause offense, but the thread just seems to me to be a bit of satire on the pc brigade and an attempt to wind them up, and from the looks of this thread it seems to have worked pretty well

Tigger

i realised that des was right and i gwas being taken in by the pc brigade
i of course had never used the word niggardly before and after a little research into its korigins i decided to add it to my polite and descriptive sales patter
a black gentleman came in a while ago and when he offered less than the displayed price on some goods i told him not to be niggardly about the price as surely his wife deserved the best

i am posting from the hospital and should live

gogglebok

orestes wrote: »

I reported the tags earlier cos I thought they could cause offense, but the thread just seems to me to be a bit of satire on the pc brigade and an attempt to wind them up, and from the looks of this thread it seems to have worked pretty well

I am pretty tightly wound up, I have to admit. If the wild hysterical flailing of my posts was hard to take, you should have been here at Brigade headquarters. I could hardly hear my heart bleed over the sound of my teeth gnashing. I've had to ask the tea-person to make me an infusion of rainwater and Guardian editorials just to get my bio-rhythms back to normal.

Cold rainwater, of course. Fuel is bad for the environment.

Gran Hermano

gogglebok wrote: »

. Meantime, I'm glad I'm not be the only one who is uncomfortable with the term "spades".

Best stay out of the Poker forum

It wasn't me!

Tigger wrote: »

i am posting from the hospital and should live

y'know, some people might find the suggestion that the black gentleman would automatically respond violently somewhat racist.

gogglebok

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Best stay out of the Poker forum

Actually, I'm very comfortable with the welcome poker extends to divergent sexualities. The game is stud, the boys lay down their hearts and take their clubs in their hands, and the juice is wild.

No wonder everyone is waiting for the jacks to open.

Esel

^ Best stay out of the Humour forum too.

MIN2511

gogglebok wrote: »

I certainly don't have a problem with swearing, and this is not "the way boards is going". This is one boards user expressing unease, giving reasons, and asking whether others agree or disagree. I had hoped we could talk about this without anger or abuse, and I find your response disheartening.

Your "babbage/cabbage" analogy is faulty. The fact that "******" is an offensive word was not a capricious decision by a group of people. The AH thread is not a discussion of the word "niggard", except insofar as it sounds like ******.

Sorry but correct me if i am wrong, boards is a diverse site. We can't have the same opinions, i don't see anything wrong with that thread.

People need to lighten up about the whole racism issue, i believe racism these days = ignorance, uneducation.
I don't see any problem taking digs at people(Polish, Roma Gypsies, Bloody brits, Chinese or Indians), if that's the case then we are all racists because i bet you most of us have made snide remarks about people of different nationalities and races.

gogglebok

MIN2511 wrote: »

Sorry but correct me if i am wrong, boards is a diverse site. We can't have the same opinions, i don't see anything wrong with that thread.

Man, it's not about opinions. It's about whether we call people spades and ****.