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Sinn Feins list of "Demands"

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24

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    #32
    AtomicHorror
    Registered Users Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭AtomicHorror


    If you don't understand them, Vote No to Sinn Fein.


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    #33
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    axer wrote: »
    Yes maybe most governments have no problem with it but that does not mean that most people feel the same way.

    If thats the case then its up to the people to tell their respective Governments as much. If they don't then we have to assume that they want it. There really hasn't been that much uproar in Europe over Lisbon in general, let alone the defence aspect of it. So it doesn't look like the people have a problem with that.


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    #34
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    SF was asked to submit what they wanted changed and they submitted. What's the problem here? You guys would nitpick thin air. It's like some guy going to McDonalds and asking for Big Mac, meanwhile on boards.ie - posters are discussing how unreasonable this man was being.


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    #35
    IRLConor
    Subscribers Posts: 4,076 ✭✭✭IRLConor


    dlofnep wrote: »
    SF was asked to submit what they wanted changed and they submitted. What's the problem here?

    Their requested changes essentially gut the Lisbon Treaty of all its main changes rendering it pointless. It's a pisstake, not a genuine request. (Or maybe they are deluded, who knows?)
    dlofnep wrote: »
    It's like some guy going to McDonalds and asking for Big Mac, meanwhile on boards.ie - posters are discussing how unreasonable this man was being.

    It's like a man going into McDonalds and asking for a medium-rare steak and a glass of nice wine all served on fine silver, china and crystal by a waiter in a tux. He's doing that because he knows full well that he'll be told, "Sorry, this is McDonalds, not Shanahans" and then he can kick up a fuss about how McDonalds weren't listening to his perfectly reasonable demand for a steak. :rolleyes:


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    #36
    ionix5891
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭ionix5891


    dlofnep wrote: »
    What's the problem here?

    a bunch of terrorists get to dictate the direction of europe


    :D


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    #37
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    ionix5891 wrote: »
    a bunch of terrorists get to dictate the direction of europe


    :D

    Terrorists? Care to clarify on this comment?


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    #38
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    IRLConor wrote: »
    Their requested changes essentially gut the Lisbon Treaty of all its main changes rendering it pointless. It's a pisstake, not a genuine request. (Or maybe they are deluded, who knows?)

    No, they were asked what they objected to and they stated it. There is nothing wrong whatsoever. You're nitpicking. First they were attacked for not outlining enough reasons to not supporting the LT, and then when they outline them - they are being unreasonable. It's no big secret that SF are against the Treaty, much like the majority of this country.

    It's nitpicking at it's finest.


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    #39
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    It is quite hypocritical from a party that has consistently opposed Europe to all of a sudden want to fix it. The fact that they are promoting renegotiation in my view is cynical ploy. Quite simply they cannot deliver on it but it does offer straws of comfort to some of the 70%+ who believed the treaty can be renegotiated and that can only be good for them in next year's elections.


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    #40
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    is_that_so wrote: »
    It is quite hypocritical from a party that has consistently opposed Europe to all of a sudden want to fix it. The fact that they are promoting renegotiation in my view is cynical ploy. Quite simply they cannot deliver on it but it does offer straws of comfort to some of the 70%+ who believed the treaty can be renegotiated and that can only be good for them in next year's elections.

    Why would it be hypocritical to want to "fix" something that they find a problem with? It would seem perfectly sensical to me. Sinn Féin isn't opposed to Europe - it's opposed to the method in which Europe is run. There is a big difference.


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    #41
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    axer wrote: »
    Yes maybe most governments have no problem with it but that does not mean that most people feel the same way.

    Spain are in favour as are Luxembourg and apparently 60% of Germans think it's good too. Even Denmark is looking at getting rid of some of its own opt-outs.


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    #42
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Why would it be hypocritical to want to "fix" something that they find a problem with? It would seem perfectly sensical to me. Sinn Féin isn't opposed to Europe - it's opposed to the method in which Europe is run. There is a big difference.

    This is a Damascene conversion because it suits them. I call that hypocrisy. They don't like Europe and never have. It is also disingenuous to peddle something that they will not be able to deliver.


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    #43
    Tim Robbins
    Registered Users Posts: 8,998 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    marco_polo wrote: »
    · A strengthened social clause
    Marxist revolution, I knew it.


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    #44
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    is_that_so wrote: »
    This is a Damascene conversion because it suits them. I call that hypocrisy. They don't like Europe and never have. It is also disingenuous to peddle something that they will not be able to deliver.

    To say they don't like Europe is disingenuous and incorrect. Pardon them for wanting a change of direction in Europe. The majority of our population do not agree with the treaty and would like changes. Are they disingenuous too?


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    #45
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    dlofnep wrote: »
    To say they don't like Europe is disingenuous and incorrect. Pardon them for wanting a change of direction in Europe. The majority of our population do not agree with the treaty and would like changes. Are they disingenuous too?

    As I said it's a recent affliction on their part. As for the rest of the population well I can't comment on something that makes no sense to me personally. Like the non-thinking Yes voters I find it utterly unacceptable that people will ignore issues that are part of a referendum and instead use it an excuse for any notion that takes them. If you vote you should be informed and use that information to cast your vote whatever way that is.


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    #46
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Terrorists? Care to clarify on this comment?

    http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/violence/feudkillc.htm

    Perhaps you can pick a list out of this.

    Also if they are so pro europe now perhaps a statement admitting they were wrong about Mastricht and Nice and how the world would end if we said yes on bothe would be a start?


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    #47
    IRLConor
    Subscribers Posts: 4,076 ✭✭✭IRLConor


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Why would it be hypocritical to want to "fix" something that they find a problem with?

    Because they don't want to fix it. They want to kill it entirely but make it look like they don't.

    They're saying "I like the car, but can you take out the engine and gearbox, strip off all the bodywork and leave me with the chassis?". That's not liking the car that's wrapping "I don't want it" up in rhetoric to make it look like you're being reasonable.

    They're not stupid, they know that there isn't a hope in hell that they'll get all of their demands met. They're just posturing to try and make themselves look like they actually like the EU project when they're fundamentally, ideologically against it.


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    #48
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    marco_polo wrote: »
    http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/violence/feudkillc.htm

    Perhaps you can pick a list out of this.

    What exactly do you want me to "pick out"? I'd like you to specify who exactly you are calling terrorists. Clarity before I respond please. Thank you.


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    #49
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    dlofnep wrote: »
    What exactly do you want me to "pick out"? I'd like you to specify who exactly you are calling terrorists. Clarity before I respond please. Thank you.

    Republican Sinn Fein / IRA. There are probably a couple of thousand names to get through so no rush.


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    #50
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    marco_polo wrote: »
    Republican Sinn Fein / IRA. There are probably a couple of thousand names to get through so no rush.

    What have Republican Sinn Féin got to do with this topic, or the IRA for that matter?


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    #51
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    marco_polo wrote: »
    Republican Sinn Fein / IRA. There are probably a couple of thousand names to get through so no rush.

    republican sf are a different party to the one being discussed in this thread.are sf using the no vote to their advantage?yes.would all the other parties have used a yes vote to their advantage?yes.at least sf are cleaning up after themselves.

    Posted via Mobile Device


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    #52
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    brianthebard wrote: »
    republican sf are a different party to the one being discussed in this thread.are sf using the no vote to their advantage?yes.would all the other parties have used a yes vote to their advantage?yes.at least sf are cleaning up after themselves.

    Posted via Mobile Device

    Apologies didn't mean to insuate that Republican Sinn Fein were a bunch of murders in case there was any confusion.

    Now that you mention it unfortunately the other lot are a little too good at cleaning up after themselves, as Robert McCartney's sisters can no doubt attest to..


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    #53
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    marco_polo wrote: »
    Apologies I meant the party of of full of killers not Republican Sinn Fein.

    Now that you mention it unfortunately they are a little too good at cleaning up after themselves

    You're going to have to rephrase that. "The party of of" - What party? Are you trying to say a party is full of killers? If so, which party?


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    #54
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    marco_polo wrote: »
    Apologies didn'tmean to insuate that Republican Sinn Fein were a bunch of murders in case there was any confusion.

    His point was that you spontanously brought up out of nowhere "Republican Sinn Féin". The question I asked was - Who was a bunch of terrorists and you replied with that.

    Firstly, I believe that you don't know the difference between Republican Sinn Féin & Sinn Féin. Secondly, you're going to have to start clarifying on who is a terrorist and who isn't? Are you trying to imply that Sinn Féin (a political party who instigated the peace process in the North and has persons elected in both the North and South) is a bunch of terrorists?


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    #55
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    dlofnep wrote: »
    You're going to have to rephrase that. "The party of of" - What party? Are you trying to say a party is full of killers? If so, which party?

    Done. See above.


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    #56
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    dlofnep wrote: »
    His point was that you spontanously brought up out of nowhere "Republican Sinn Féin". The question I asked was - Who was a bunch of terrorists and you replied with that.

    Firstly, I believe that you don't know the difference between Republican Sinn Féin & Sinn Féin.

    They all look the same to me.
    Secondly, you're going to have to start clarifying on who is a terrorist and who isn't? Are you trying to imply that Sinn Féin (a political party who instigated the peace process in the North and has persons elected in both the North and South) is a bunch of terrorists?

    Yes

    2000 odd wrongs don't make a right.


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    #57
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    marco_polo wrote: »
    They all look the same to me.

    So you admit to not actually knowing anything about any Republican party but claim to be an authority on the matter?
    marco_polo wrote: »
    Yes

    That's libel and false. But well, since you're the expert on Republican parties, maybe you know more than me. :rolleyes:


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    #58
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    marco_polo wrote: »
    2000 odd wrongs don't make a right.

    2000 wrongs? What 2000 wrongs did Sinn Féin the political party make?


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    #59
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    dlofnep wrote: »
    So you admit to not actually knowing anything about any Republican party but claim to be an authority on the matter

    It is hard to keep up with names of terrorists organisations, they change so quickly.

    That's libel and false. But well, since you're the expert on Republican parties, maybe you know more than me. :rolleyes:
    Sue me if it bothers you that much.


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    #60
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    marco_polo wrote: »
    It is hard to keep up with names of terrorists organisations, they change so quickly.

    What terrorist organisations? You really have no idea what you are talking about.
    marco_polo wrote: »
    Sue me if it bothers you that much.

    Why would I want to waste my time suing you? I will address it with the staff of boards.ie however. I am sure if I started calling all members of FF terrorists, I'd be banned straight away.

    As a member of ÓSF, I can categorically say that the political party I support are not terrorists and are fully pledged to peace in the North. However, ignorant and unfounded statements do you no justice whatsoever.


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    #61
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    dlofnep wrote: »
    What terrorist organisations? You really have no idea what you are talking about.

    Why would I want to waste my time suing you? I will address it with the staff of boards.ie however. I am sure if I started calling all members of FF terrorists, I'd be banned straight away.

    As a member of ÓSF, I can categorically say that the political party I support are not terrorists and are fully pledged to peace in the North. However, ignorant and unfounded statements do you no justice whatsoever.

    Whatever helps you sleep at night.


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