Actually I'm now glad the no's won

Reku

As I've already said I voted yes, but getting this from a friend has made me feel relieved that the no's won:

I think Ireland is the most democratic country in the Europe if gave to the people right for decision.
Our president had meeting with Polish president a few days ago to discuss about these "conflicting Irish". Ironically both Lithuanians and Polish together comprise presently 50% of population in Ireland, so both presidents should convince first their own nationalities and not Irish. A lot of noise, but no information WHY Ireland voited this way at all?
Ordinary people here are depressed from each day growing prices and inflation reach 13%. Nobody expected life will be so much worse after joining EU. Finally EU insist to close ex-russian nuclear power station that is still giving us a very cheap electrisity. When we will buy electrisity from Germany for 2x bigger price and inflation will reach 16%. Heating price will be doubled this year in Vilnius that means my parents will pay 350.- EUR/month for the heating and hot water (all the pention they getting together). I don't know how it is possible if Russia is still selling gas much cheaper than to Germany.

I mean seriously, WTF are the EU commission at!?!? No incentives offered, just the order to shut down their power plant and start buying uncompetitively priced German electricity.

PH01

And what does the Lisbon Treaty got to do with the energy crisis? Which article of the treaty deals with this?

hmmm

farohar wrote: »

As I've already said I voted yes, but getting this from a friend has made me feel relieved that the no's won:

I mean seriously, WTF are the EU commission at!?!? No incentives offered, just the order to shut down their power plant and start buying uncompetitively priced German electricity.

How about doing even the slightest bit of research before you post? These plants are old plants built using similar designs to Chernobyl. The EU required these plants to be closed as a condition of membership and have provided financial assistance for their decommissioning.

ixtlan

Mu understanding is that the EU required Lithuania to close these plants because they are considered too old and dangerous. The EU has agreed to pay some de-commissioning costs and compensation (not sure how much) but it is true that there will be large electricity price increases as a result. However obviously the EU and the Lithuanian government agreed there was an absolute necessity to close the plants.

This is a good example of why when we give up power in Ireland to Brussels we gain power over other states. I'm sure we agree that this decision will be hard on the people in Lithuania, but is it better to keep an unsafe nuclear reactor operating, which is closer to us than Chernobyl? They are the same design. Do you think people in Ireland would think it was good the EU was in a position to force Lithuania to close these plants?

And I use the word force advisedly. Lithuania could choose not to join the EU, but they feel the other benefits outweigh this sacrifice.

Sometimes doing the right thing is hard. This is the right choice for everyone, but it will cause hardship no doubt.

Edit: OK, here's some more detail.
http://www.jamestown.org/edm/article.php?article_id=2369075
Looks like the EU will pay €1.5 billion to do this shutdown for de-commissioning and storage. Possibly there are further compensation funds?

I'll also add that this had nothing whatsoever to do with Lisbon. It was agreed years ago when Lithuania joined the EU. In fact it was a pre-condition, although the Lithuanians are trying to keep the plant going and break the agreement. Regardless, Lisbon or not will make absolutely no difference, so if some people in Lithuania are saying no to Lisbon, it's out of anger rather than any answer to their issue.

Ix.

Reku

Eh folks, perhaps you ALL missed the part about having to buy from Germany when Russia would be a cheaper source. Financial assistance for the decommissioning is not what I'd call an incentive, long term aid in making up for the financial loss would be an incentive, telling them to buy one of their more expensive options regarding power is quite the opposite. Think of them sending a team over to shut down Ard na Crusha, would you consider this "an incentive" to shut it down?
Seems to me to be quite simply a case of the bigger countries milking the smaller ones, to prop up their own economy, because they feel they can push them around with impunity. Lets not forget that these sort of arrangements have been a constant source of ire regarding the USA's post-war rebuilding in Iraqi, why should it be any different here? The Lithuanians should be absolutely free to buy from whoever the hell they want to without the EU looking over their shoulders and tutting.

hmmm

farohar wrote: »

Eh folks, perhaps you ALL missed the part about having to buy from Germany when Russia would be a cheaper source.

The Russians sell gas to their own people at subsidised prices and exported gas is more expensive. If Lithuania wants to get the same prices they're going to have to rejoin the motherland. I don't think the friend of the OP is the smartest economic cookie in the packet.

marco_polo

Well a hold on a second just five minutes of research and I have discovered the following.

First the plant is not even being decommissioned untill 2009, and there are plans to build a new one by 2015. So if the heating price is doubling this year it is unrelated to the plant closure. Also the piece you quoted does not mention any ban on importing energy from Russia.

Also there are advanced plans to build connect the grid between Poland and Lithuania and other Baltic states by 2011. Since the article specifically mentions that Poland is worried about cheap energy from Russia flooding its markets there does not seem to be any EU ban on doing such, indeed it would seem a bit of a waste building a massive infrastructure connectind half the EU up to Russia if that were the case.

http://www.liw.lt/archive_vid.php?shid=1167329507&id=1167328771

PopeBuckfastXVI

Pfff... you can prove anything with facts Marco...

marco_polo

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

Pfff... you can prove anything with facts Marco...

It gets better, according to this Lithuania is not even connected to the European grid untill that interconnector is completed in 2011. So in the intervening two year guess where they will have to import all their electricity from?

http://www.alfa.lt/straipsnis/c74196

Russia

hmmm

marco_polo wrote: »

It gets better, according to this Lithuania is not even connected to the European grid untill that interconnector is completed in 2011. So in the intervening two year guess where they will have to import all their electricity from?

I'm voting "no" at this attempt to foist communism on a country by EU elites.

ixtlan

farohar wrote: »

Eh folks, perhaps you ALL missed the part about having to buy from Germany when Russia would be a cheaper source.

You need to back up this statement. You appear to be basing it on this comment...

I don't know how it is possible if Russia is still selling gas much cheaper than to Germany.

What does that actually mean? It's open to many interpretations. One is that they are going to buy electricity from Germany at a big price increase over their existing unsafe nuclear power. Your friend is then wondering why the cost is so high when Lithuania could be generating power from the gas that they get cheaper than Germany?

Of course you can't build a gas electric generating plant overnight, and Lithuania is committed to a new nuclear power plant, so they are not even going to start.

Edit: Seen marco's post... so what's with this entire discussion? Does your friend even know what's happening in his own country?

Ix

Neamhshuntasach

"Ironically both Lithuanians and Polish together comprise presently 50% of population in Ireland"

not even anywhere close to 50%. Probably nearer to 20%

is_that_so

I believe the total non-national population is about the EU average of 10% or so.

PH01

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

"Ironically both Lithuanians and Polish together comprise presently 50% of population in Ireland"

not even anywhere close to 50%. Probably nearer to 20%

You're both way off. The figure, for those who are Non-Irish, UKish, EUish, Other Europeans, Africians, Asians and Americians, is around the 12% mark (CSO)

K-9

Some people will believe anything.

50%. Open your eyes man dear!