Rip Offs in the Airsoft Adverts Forum.

silver haze

i recently come accross a number of ads in said forum where new people to the sport are being offered equiptment at a supposidly fair price but are in some cases being deceived.

anyone who attempts to advise the prospevtive purchaser is usually infracted or banned.

now i know that this is against the forum rules as it falls under thread-spoiling, but maybe a happy medium could be attained.

for example if the "thread spoiler/n00b warner" can back up their claims and show evidence of a cheaper all-inclusive price, then maybe the seller could adjust his asking price accordingly.

just a thought as im sure that there are a lot of new commers to the sport have been put off by getting ripped off on their first purchase by a more experianced person who should know better.

like here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055307334


and more recently here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055313665&page=2

in thsi case the seller has got his team-mate/friend to come on and try defend him and even goes so far as to accuse the mod of "classic thread spoiling".

now im not questioning any mods decision but how is this fair to both parties.

i was going to post in the airsoft forum but felt that this would be a better place for it, please feel free to move the thread there if more appropriate.

AlmightyCushion

Those links both link to the same thread.

In fairness, (I assume) he linked to a product being sold from outside the EU. If that's the case then the person could face import duty.

Also Lemming says:

I do not want to see people quoting sellers overseas (and/or outside the E.U.) whilst not also noting a) shipping costs and b) import duties that may be forthcoming.

So going by that I would imagine it's fine to link to a product that is cheaper elsewhere as long as it's within the EU and includes the delivery price.

silver haze

sorry fixed that there now.

import duty only applies to good totalling €45 or more, including delivery, so i dont think that was fair in that particular instance.

he could of had it brand new for half the price he paid second hand.

Cuddlesworth

From the Airsoft Adverts Charter.

"Adverts.ie rules apply here. Below I have put up a list of the general rules. If you wish for more information, there is a page about it on the boards.ie wiki
http://wiki.boards.ie/wiki/Adverts_Rules"

From the Adverts Wiki

"...not reply saying "you can get X cheaper here";
# We don't care. Replies like that end up in flame wars. It is up to the Buyer to find that out. It is a Buyers market after all. Genuine comments are welcomed if someone is really trying to rip someone off. We personally think "let the Buyer beware". You have net access, we have Elara and Komplett to name but a few low cost suppliers, a bit of research never hurts. If someone is way off the mark with an Asking price (and we mean WAY off), post a link to the current available price (like-for-like VAT and postage must be commented on"


Customs don't check packages below 45, unless it happens to be imitation firearms accessories. In which case there is a very good chance that they will take them, and then charge Vat and import duties. You are making assumptions and half truths.

gandalf

Firstly in one of the examples it was pointed out that the item was purchased in Ireland at a higher cost than it was being offered for. Comparing it to a cost from Hong Kong is quite deceptive. I am sure people are mature enough to realise its prudent to shop around.

Also I would like to question your motives for posting this. As far as I can recall your general attitude has been less than friendly on the general airsoft forum as well, so I believe you are just trolling here trying to cause trouble again.

Lemming

I was going to comment, but tbh both Cuddlesworth and Gandalf have said everything that really needs said concerning the OP's complaints.

silver haze

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Customs don't check packages below 45, unless it happens to be imitation firearms accessories. In which case there is a very good chance that they will take them, and then charge Vat and import duties. You are making assumptions and half truths.

well for a start thats absolute nonsence, there is no import duty due on any legal goods totalling €45 or more including delivery and i have verified that with two seperate customs officers, with the question specifically geared towards airsoft.

there is no general rule regarding imitation firearms as you mention, it is not i that is making assumptions and half truths.

however your first point was valid and duly noted.

gandalf wrote: »

Firstly in one of the examples it was pointed out that the item was purchased in Ireland at a higher cost than it was being offered for. Comparing it to a cost from Hong Kong is quite deceptive. I am sure people are mature enough to realise its prudent to shop around.

Also I would like to question your motives for posting this. As far as I can recall your general attitude has been less than friendly on the general airsoft forum as well, so I believe you are just trolling here trying to cause trouble again.

my motives for posting here are the fact that i was warned/infracted/banned for this "offence" quite a number of times, this was due to my disgust at the inherint unfairness of the situations.

if i was trolling i would have posted in airsoft where it would have generated a lot of interest, then a flame war would have taken place and it would have been locked with th advice that it should have been taken to feedback.

please do not write this off as trolling, it is a legitimate concern, that i feel is being over looked.

damned if you do, damned if you dont.

if the admins think that it is fair that a person ages 14 upwards may be taken advanage of financially by a more experianced player then thats fine, but may i just remmind you that a minior i.e. below the age of majority cannot legally enter a valid binding contract, for this very reason.

what about the second link in question?

CuLT

Wait, people under 18 aren't allowed to buy things?

silver haze

CuLT wrote: »

Wait, people under 18 aren't allowed to buy things?

strictly speaking, no. although these days this has been adopted to just including written contracts i.e.SKY, Bank Loans, new cars ect.

from a legal point of view though all contracts, written or otherwise may be reneged on by a minor.

gandalf

You are talking crap. If someone wants to order the sight from the first example from Hong Kong then there is nothing stopping them from doing so. The OP in that case bought it from an IRISH etailer for €50 and was offering it for €45. Someone even asked if it was the same as one on a Hong Kong based etailer and he said yes. So I cannot see where this conspiracy is that you elude to. It is clear that you can buy items outside of this country cheaper that is always the case but if they want them immediately without the risk of customs stopping them (which has happened to a couple of orders of this type) then they can pay the premium.

The other thread has been dealt with.

Are you saying we should ban all under 18's from using the forum?

Again I believe you are a timewaster and a trouble maker and you're motives are probably coloured by previous threads in the airsoft forum.

The Master

CuLT wrote: »

Wait, people under 18 aren't allowed to buy things?

silver haze wrote: »

strictly speaking, no.

Wow ,

Just Wow dude.

Lemming

silver haze wrote: »

my motives for posting here are the fact that i was warned/infracted/banned for this "offence" quite a number of times, this was due to my disgust at the inherint unfairness of the situations.

[snip]

please do not write this off as trolling, it is a legitimate concern, that i feel is being over looked.

The rules are quite clear on this particular issue. The fact that I have been lenient in general concerning the enforcement of this particular rule does not take away from the fact that it exists and is written quite clearly and the rules placed in a prominent position at the top of any airsoft adverts page.

If you are not willing to abide by the adverts.ie rules (and they have evolved over many years and are effective and - more importantly - fair) then quite frankly you are not welcome on the airsoft adverts forum. Period.

damned if you do, damned if you dont.

No. Damned if you don't abide by the rules.

if the admins think that it is fair that a person ages 14 upwards may be taken advanage of financially by a more experianced player then thats fine, but may i just remmind you that a minior i.e. below the age of majority cannot legally enter a valid binding contract, for this very reason.

What. The. F*ck. does someone's age have to do with this? Do only people older than you try to rip you off or something?

Tigger

i too enjoy the attention that can be gained from the airsofting community
i do this by dual wielding support aegs and singing songs form assorted war films

you could try that as well or as an alternative

also grenades they are good for attention as they are tye new cool in airsoft

or really expensive stuff

or french combats cos they look like irish gear and thats a whole other story

Stercus Accidit

I've stopped lads getting ripped off in adverts too, I was somewhat subtle about it though.
Then the advertiser pm'd me dogs abuse and I mentioned it in thread to embarrass the lad, I got a 24 hour ban myself for that.

Adverts.ie or airsoft adverts is there as a free service, a bloody usefull one too, if you bollock around in there you get a ban, if you argue in thread afterwards you cement your ban.

Tigger

if he wanted to pm someone and tell them about a better priced place to buy then is that allowed?

not that i care

hey look fully auto catz

silver haze

gandalf wrote: »

You are talking crap. If someone wants to order the sight from the first example from Hong Kong then there is nothing stopping them from doing so. The OP in that case bought it from an IRISH etailer for €50 and was offering it for €45. Someone even asked if it was the same as one on a Hong Kong based etailer and he said yes. So I cannot see where this conspiracy is that you elude to. It is clear that you can buy items outside of this country cheaper that is always the case but if they want them immediately without the risk of customs stopping them (which has happened to a couple of orders of this type) then they can pay the premium.

The other thread has been dealt with.

Are you saying we should ban all under 18's from using the forum?

Again I believe you are a timewaster and a trouble maker and you're motives are probably coloured by previous threads in the airsoft forum.

so if i go buy something from china, then sell it on boards and say that i bought it from an irish retailer then thats ok is it?
i mentioned no conspiracy at all so i dunno where youre pulling that from, the only thing im saying that people can be very easily exploited here.

i wont give my personal view on under 18s in the airsoft forum as thats another issue altogether and will derail this thread.

youre timewaster & troble maker remark lead me to believe that it is you whos posts are coloured by previos threads.
this is a legitimate issue, whether you want to face that or not.

Lemming wrote: »

The rules are quite clear on this particular issue. The fact that I have been lenient in general concerning the enforcement of this particular rule does not take away from the fact that it exists and is written quite clearly and the rules placed in a prominent position at the top of any airsoft adverts page.

If you are not willing to abide by the adverts.ie rules (and they have evolved over many years and are effective and - more importantly - fair) then quite frankly you are not welcome on the airsoft adverts forum. Period.



No. Damned if you don't abide by the rules.



What. The. F*ck. does someone's age have to do with this? Do only people older than you try to rip you off or something?

can you post a single response without resorting to swearing?

my point was that a 14 year old who has just discovered airsoft will think that the first CYMA electric Glock 18 they are offered is cool and dead cheap at only €80. they are more susceptible to being exploited due to their youth.

Motosam wrote: »

I've stopped lads getting ripped off in adverts too, I was somewhat subtle about it though.
Then the advertiser pm'd me dogs abuse and I mentioned it in thread to embarrass the lad, I got a 24 hour ban myself for that.

Adverts.ie or airsoft adverts is there as a free service, a bloody usefull one too, if you bollock around in there you get a ban, if you argue in thread afterwards you cement your ban.

exactly so you know the situation then when you see that some one is being ripped off and there is nothing you can do about it unless you want to get a ban.

surely there can be some guidlines put in place or something, even if it was just a sticky in the adverts section to warn all new comers about researching a price, and maybe the title could be less condisending than "Newbie thread" as no-one bothers reading it when its put to them like that.

Stercus Accidit

silver haze wrote: »

exactly so you know the situation then when you see that some one is being ripped off and there is nothing you can do about it unless you want to get a ban.

surely there can be some guidlines put in place or something, even if it was just a sticky in the adverts section to warn all new comers about researching a price, and maybe the title could be less condisending than "Newbie thread" as no-one bothers reading it when its put to them like that.

Well actually no.

My point was I subtly made a few enquiries within the rules to find out more about the item in question, and to make sure all the relevant info was available to prospective buyers, which worked.

I was banned for going further and making a point that was off topic as the OP at the time pissed me off via pm abuse.

Airsoft adverts works well, just follow the rules.

gandalf

silver haze wrote: »

so if i go buy something from china, then sell it on boards and say that i bought it from an irish retailer then thats ok is it?

So are you saying the op was lying then? At the end of the day if someone is stupid enough to buy without researching then thats their problem. What do you want a nanny state of Boards.

For the record anyone that is suspected of using the adverts section for anything other than "community" sales is and have been dealt with.

[quote
i mentioned no conspiracy at all so i dunno where youre pulling that from, the only thing im saying that people can be very easily exploited here.[/quote]

Basing it on the other bull**** and **** stirring you have done in the past "Mr Real IAA".

i wont give my personal view on under 18s in the airsoft forum as thats another issue altogether and will derail this thread.

So why even mention it besides trying to draw attention to yourself.

youre timewaster & troble maker remark lead me to believe that it is you whos posts are coloured by previos threads.
this is a legitimate issue, whether you want to face that or not.

Lets look at some of your previous contributions to the airsoft forum.

i think youd better look up the definition of a troll there boy, to me its some one who has no interest in helping but just provoking arguments with inflamatory posts i.e. your pathetic little picture.
now f*ck back to your little bridge, unless you have a worthwhile contribution to make.

yeah will i used to bother contributing but after witnessing the extremely narrow minded cliquiness that exists here i gave up, now i couldnt be arsed anymore, you dont get this sh1t on arnies, canadaairsoft, airsoftforums or any of the other informative and helpful forums that are out there.

Couple this with your infamous "Real IAA" thread and you're constant bitching about Lemming which I believe is the main driver behind this whinge it is quite obvious that you are engaged in trolling and attention seeking to the detriment of the Airsoft forum and the sport. Have you even attended a skirmish yet?

my point was that a 14 year old who has just discovered airsoft will think that the first CYMA electric Glock 18 they are offered is cool and dead cheap at only €80. they are more susceptible to being exploited due to their youth.

Oh god think of the children :rolleyes:

surely there can be some guidlines put in place or something, even if it was just a sticky in the adverts section to warn all new comers about researching a price, and maybe the title could be less condisending than "Newbie thread" as no-one bothers reading it when its put to them like that.

Surely thats common sense? Do you want us to babysit as well?

silver haze

WOW!!! you really have it in for me, let me get this straight, because i have different ideas to you as to how this sport should be ran then im automaticlly a troll or trouble maker.
you can take a quote and make it look inflamitory, why didnt you got to the effort of posting what exactly it was that i was replying to in an admittedly colorful fashion?

i didnt realise that skirmishing was an essential element of the support, should Bullets be banned now as he is only a lowly collector.

for the record i dont give a fúck about lemming, hes just another mod, nothing more nothing less, and i dont see how this is linked, I, in no way insulted his moderation or decisions nor critised his ability, i was having a go at the actual rules of adverts.ie, which he has no power to change, so i think youve really gone off on a tangent there.

Lemming

silver haze wrote: »

can you post a single response without resorting to swearing?

No. So f*cking deal with it already.

my point was that a 14 year old who has just discovered airsoft will think that the first CYMA electric Glock 18 they are offered is cool and dead cheap at only €80. they are more susceptible to being exploited due to their youth.

Errrr ... no. I think you'll find it's not their youth that gets them exploited, it's a lack of knowledge on the subject matter. That it's airsoft in this case is irrelevant.

surely there can be some guidlines put in place or something, even if it was just a sticky in the adverts section to warn all new comers about researching a price, and maybe the title could be less condisending than "Newbie thread" as no-one bothers reading it when its put to them like that.

For the love of .... have you ever actually READ the adverts.ie rules? It suggests using that most simple of tools, a search of the internet. If you're reading boards.ie you have access to google.

And in any case researching a price is common f*cking sense. I'm sorry, but neither myself nor any of the other moderators nor boards.ie is a substitute for user intelligence defecit on that account.

Lemming

silver haze wrote: »

for the record i dont give a fúck about lemming, hes just another mod, nothing more nothing less, and i dont see how this is linked, I, in no way insulted his moderation or decisions nor critised his ability, i was having a go at the actual rules of adverts.ie, which he has no power to change, so i think youve really gone off on a tangent there.

I think you'll find I have a great deal of ability to change the rules of adverts.ie considering I have been involved in drafting, review, and maintenance of them for the last .... 5 or so years?

gandalf

Nope just basing my opinion of you on your previous posts and the fact you did actually go after Lemming in the past. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055280904

After moderating on boards on quite a few high volume forums I tend to spot people who tend to cause trouble and forgive me if I am wrong the old spidey sense is tingling with you mate.

Bullets would never be banned because he contributes to the community and the forum, you however based on your history have not. Now maybe thats not fair but so far all I see is a very lame attempt at attention seeking and trolling.

Stercus Accidit

silver haze wrote: »

you can take a quote and make it look inflamitory, why didnt you got to the effort of posting what exactly it was that i was replying to in an admittedly colorful fashion?

Oh that was you? :eek::D

Lol, I thought it was llort.

Ah post away, a fine bit of troll slaying, I received two infractions for that, totally worth it.

Also be sure to include the original post you made that started it

here

Lets just be rid of him.

Tigger

Motosam wrote: »

Oh that was you? :eek::D

Lol, I thought it was llort.

Ah post away, a fine bit of troll slaying, I received two infractions for that, totally worth it.

Also be sure to include the original post you made that started it

here

Lets just be rid of him.

i'm 99.9% sure it is llort

get yer man from mr ben to check

silver haze

well just to let you all know that iv done some digging around and it turns out that the P90 in the 2nd thread i linked was way more than 2nd or 3rd hand.

also the gun can be bought here, from an irish site for €30 less than what the "mark" paid for it, and that includes delivery.

http://www.corkairsoftshop.com/shopdata/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=55&osCsid=ccf05ecaa798b6cd8b5095ed145b050c

that to me is pure exploitation and nothing else, that individaly was robbed, both on the price and the quality of the gun.

so you can make your little troll remarks and pathetic cat pictures to yourselves.
you can be sad little people on the internet all day, but if you have nothing positive to contribute then please dont bother.

this boils down to dishonesty in the extreme and is sickening.

silver haze

Lemming wrote: »

No. So f*cking deal with it already.



Errrr ... no. I think you'll find it's not their youth that gets them exploited, it's a lack of knowledge on the subject matter. That it's airsoft in this case is irrelevant.




For the love of .... have you ever actually READ the adverts.ie rules? It suggests using that most simple of tools, a search of the internet. If you're reading boards.ie you have access to google.

And in any case researching a price is common f*cking sense. I'm sorry, but neither myself nor any of the other moderators nor boards.ie is a substitute for user intelligence defecit on that account.

you really are most ignorant sometimes.

would you agree that if a new person seeking advice on a hop-up bucking or spring or some other part or accessory, was deceived or not given the correct advice, would that be fair?
no it wouldnt as some members here are decent enough to give good solid advice to fellow members as we all remember what it was like staring off.
i dont understand why the same guidance could be given with regards prices.

i just fail to understand how you can be against someone warning a noob against getting stung, in case it spoils the thread of the OP who is in the position of exploiting another.

Dave D

silver haze wrote: »

also the gun can be bought here, from an irish site for €30 less than what the "mark" paid for it, and that includes delivery.

http://www.corkairsoftshop.com/shopdata/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=55&osCsid=ccf05ecaa798b6cd8b5095ed145b050c

The price for that gun does not include a battery, the gun being sold here comes with a 9.6 volt battery and more mags. If you were to include those the one here is a good bit cheaper.

RoundyMooney

Fucking hell!

So, lemme get this straight in my head. Not only with providing what is a free, and as safe as we can make it, place to trade goods, we have to be the vocal conscience of every seller who chooses to use either adverts, or the airsoft subsite as well?

You must be kidding, or trolling, because there's no way you can be stupid enough to believe that.

Surely.

It's as simple as this. The airsoft subsite is fundamentally based on the old FS/adverts rules. They are not changing, because as Lemming points out, they have evolved over an extended period, and are proven. (I'm sure he didn't mean to suggest that he could change rules off his own bat, because that's not the way we do things.)

I apologise to the genuine airsofters who nurture and support the community, both here and offline in advance-but to think that we, as adverts mods, are going to open the floodgates to the textual diarrhoea of every armchair expert, and quadruple our workload (at least), because some nimrod would be buyer can't do their own research, at the behest of some malcontents who constitute the biggest whingers on this site (toy guns obviously=serious business for some people, based on the amount of post reports that come in from the airsoft fora) is delusional in its stupidity.

RoundyMooney

By the way, we also have rules on profiteering.

The definition is my own, and I'm quite proud of it:

Profiteering is defined as: To make excessive profits on goods in demand or where attempt to profit is suspected or apparent.

If something is, in your educated or otherwise, opinion, overpriced, then simply report the item, with a link to one you feel is priced fairly.

It's that simple.

Stercus Accidit

Silver haze, you have no idea how much a p90 hi-cap costs then I take it.

Idiotic rot this, facilitating trolls, wheres OUR lisbon boards, to streamline the gtfo process.

Stercus Accidit

RoundyMooney wrote: »

Fucking hell!
You must be kidding, or trolling, because there's no way you can be stupid enough to believe that.

You got it in two.

I read the airsoft ads, and I usually price these things myself.

I'm no mod, but I do know the cost of and value of an airsoft gun, and none of those threads have crossed the line.

An airsoft gun, with extra mags, and batteries sold cheaper than in a store in Ireland for all those parts, is a fair price, and the seller can be offered a lower price even, adverts rules works.

TBH silver haze, a discrepancy (imagined by you usually) of 20-30€ on a 200€ sale is negligible.

The original ban you got was for in thread arguing, and disregard for the rules, after a warning.

These subsequent "controversies" are merely your own inability to understand the price of the items sold, you have uncovered no conspiracy for a few euro, you have contributed nothing, and repeatedly insulted mods, users and airsofters and internet users in general.

It will be a fucking sad day indeed when you get to post in airsoft or ads again.