Issuing Cert. of Compliance

Builderfromhell

I've qualified as an Architectural Technician about 26 years ago. Since then I've worked all over the world and have been given the title of 'Architect', 'Site architect', Project architect' by my employers when introduced to clients etc. I have worked as a designer on everything from one off houses to Hotels, Airport, Hospital etc. etc.
I was asked by a Solicitor to issue a Certificate of Compliance for a House extension I had designed and she issued to me a contract I could sign legally. She pointed out that because I had been 'practicing as an Architect for so many years' I could issue a cert.
I have been issuing certs ever since and have professional Indemnity insurance.
Am I correct in thinking that I should no longer issue certs.?
All advice much appreciated.

smashey

As far as I know, you can still issue them. AIB seem to be the only bank that have a problem.

Mellor

As far as I am aware, issuing certs is not restricted to the RIAI or architects. Its basically a contract, as long as its backed by your PI, its covered.

Now, some banks insist on an achitect. In this case you must be a registered architect*.
Now as you have been practising as an architect you can become a registered architect. But it is not automatic, as you soliciter appeared to suggest. You must still formally register with the RIAI.



*Membership ofthe RIAI and registration as an architct are two separate procedures.

RKQ

I believe a Certificate of Compliance is a "Professional Opinion", and as a professional individual you are entitled to issue a professional opinion.
I also consider a Certificate of Compliance to be a written affidavitt, which you will back up in Court if necessary.

Assuming you are not prepared to lie in writing, I see no reason why you can't issue a Certificate of Compliance. You also have full PI.

AIB seem to consider Architects are only capable of issuing them. This is incorrect. But if they will not accept your opinion then thats up to them. (Doctors differ, patients die!)

If other financial institutions follow AIB, then AIB will be acting illegally as they will be anti-competitive / restrictive practices. (I have been in contact with the Competition Authority)
So please don't mis-quote me. I have also raised this issue with 30 T.D's. I have had a very positive response

Poor Uncle Tom

Slightly deviating from the topic:

As of late I am adding caviots to Certificates Of Compliance regarding materials and workmanship being up to standard. Dont want to end up in court explaining a failed structure some years down the road due to duff agrigates, etc.

topcatcbr

smashey wrote: »

As far as I know, you can still issue them. AIB seem to be the only bank that have a problem.

Question.

Do the AIB accept certs of complience from Bsc Hons Building surveyors.

Builderfromhell

Advice much appreciated.
I'm thinking this forum will be a great place to share opinions, advice, suggestions to others in the building design and construction end of things.
well done to whoever got it going.

Supertech

topcatcbr - the short answer is yes, provided that they are members of The Society of Chartered Surveyors (the representative body for Building Surveyors) or one of the other approved bodies - and I think the issue was predominantly with stage payment certificates and valuations for mortgages, although the Compliance Certs would form part of that aswell.

smashey

topcatcbr wrote: »

Question.

Do the AIB accept certs of complience from Bsc Hons Building surveyors.

Supertech wrote: »

topcatcbr - the short answer is yes, provided that they are members of The Society of Chartered Surveyors (the representative body for Building Surveyors) or one of the other approved bodies - and I think the issue was predominantly with stage payment certificates and valuations for mortgages, although the Compliance Certs would form part of that aswell.

What he said.

topcatcbr

If that is the case then i cannot see why an institution should be allowed discriminate between two very similar professions.

No6

If you have been calling yourself Architect and certifying under the grandfather rule (10years) then as long as you register with the RIAI for the technical Assessment process you may continue to certify as you are untill the process is completed.

I have always put that I am an Architectual Technician on my certs and it dosnt seem to have caused any problems so far, the AIB thing is in relation to stage payment drawdowns too not just final certification. I suspect that the issue after the completion of registration will be that some solicitors (the ones who havn't dealt with you before) may not accecpt your certs while those who have will most likely continue to accecpt them, a lot depend on what directions the Law Society issue if they say Architects only then we're all f**ked :eek:

Poor Uncle Tom

Yeah, Chilling isnt it, ultimately some of our futures cound depend on what reception our certs get from solicitors.

In 1989 I had similar problems getting solicitors to accept my certs (I had to start somewhere) I contacted my own solicitor and discussed it with him, his practice had no problem accepting certs from me as he knew me, so he told me to ring up any solicitors firm who questioned my certs and to direct their quearies to my solicitors firm. As the years went on the calls got less and less.

As Barney Gumble would say "Its Happening all over again".

This site is every bit as good as a representing body as I believe the spreading of knowledge is enpowerment. (that statement did my feminen side the world of good).

I nearly left the profession in 1989 because of the hassle, had a courier job lined up to drive a van, only reason I didnt do it, the van was a Hiace.
Glad I didnt now.

Supertech

No website (no matter how high a quality !!!!) is as good as a representing body PoorUncleTom :eek:

No6

But uncle tom is right, Knowledge is Power!!, Glad to see some of us are in touch with our feminine sides!!!:D I would suggest don't panic, we're Irish I suspect we'll come up with an Irish solution to an Irish problem (or is that Lisbon 2???):D:D

Poor Uncle Tom

This morning I was faced with doing a valuation for a client for the AIB. I rang an aquaintance in the local branch and said I wanted to fill and sign the valuation, but only if it was going to be accepted, she said she would check it out and come back to me. She rang me at 12.55 and said fire away, she had gotten the OK from head office.

Is this a relenting of their own rules?? I didnt want to ask her, rocking the boat and all that.

Has anyone experienced similar of late?

smashey

I was doing a couple of certs today for IIB and their form clearly states...

"Tech not acceptable". :mad:

/whispers, we have a RIAI head who can sign off on it.

sinnerboy

PO Tom I'm glad you did not become a courier too . You have shown the way with your resourcefulness.

The 2 big issues confronting AT's in practice are

1. valuation certification and
2. Certs of Compliance

You found solutions yourself . Representing yourself . Well done

sinnerboy

smashey wrote: »

I was doing a couple fo certs today for IIB and their form clearly states...

"Tech not acceptable". :mad:

/whispers, we have a RIAI head who can sign off on it.

Our practice is RIAI headed . From time to time BOI have to be "told" what an RIAI cert is , signed by full member RIAI membership stamp and all .

Sometimes .... brick wall .... payment is refused unless accompanied by BOI "certificate" stating daft things like

"works completed to date are in compliance with planning permision" and
"works completed to date are in compliance with building regulations"
"value of site is .........."

Tell them that incomplete works can not deemed to be in compliance , and that we are not esate valuers ...... brick wall .

So problems exist not just for AT's .

muffler

smashey wrote: »

I was doing a couple fo certs today for IIB and their form clearly states...

"Tech not acceptable". :mad:

/whispers, we have a RIAI head who can sign off on it.

That must be a new requirement.

smashey

muffler wrote: »

That must be a new requirement.

I'll grab a copy of it tomorrow and post it here.

sinnerboy

Sugestion

IF AT's , organised en masse and then approached PI providers on basis of which provider is most capable of fronting up to other instituions . "Money doesn't talk it swears"

raindog11

muffler wrote: »

That must be a new requirement.

things change

Poor Uncle Tom

I saw this on the IIB forms too a little while back and picked up the phone and questioned why. I was told that since I had been signing off for IIB for years it did not affect me ???

I was very sore about that because today its ok, what about tomorrow ? Or what about coming across a grumpy old sod in the bank ? Or what about everyone else ?

So I continue to use the old forms, without the insulting slogan, works ok so far. I know this isnt the answer, but its my answer for now, till I figure something else.

RKQ

IIB forms - Tech not accaptable!

No6

Competition Authority now RKQ??

No6

And now that I read it maybe we should report it to the RIAI they'll hardly want their members sign that certificate of compliance!!!:eek:

RKQ

Thanks No.6.... I raised IIB Homeloans form, at our meeting in Portlaoise!
I'm not sure it’s exactly the same, as IIB may claim they don't accept Technicians, never did allegedly!

But AIB did, but now only accept members of Professional bodies (including Techs & fire officers)
So, I'm no solicitor but it’s not exactly the same!

Still it may warrant further investigation. There has been talk of retaining legal representation to advise on: -

• Representing us (13+ Self Employed) against AIB in a joint action
• Look into the legality of Institutes, specifically admissions policy changes, after issue of valid application form!
• And possibly IIB Homeloans,

I might just have a word with The Competition Authority.

Its not unusual for the "weakest link" in the chain to suffer, that's us!
We don't (didn't) have any professional representation, so who'd care?

Poor Uncle Tom

RKQ, I've been signing off for IIB for a good few years now as an AT, with no problems except for the hiccup as previously posted.

No6

I'm fairly sure I've done it too, lets remember that these are for drawdowns. Most of the time I send them directly to the relevant solicitor who does the requisitions and if they are happy with my certs are they going to change??

Poor Uncle Tom

No you are right and that is how I used to do them all but about 7 or 8 years ago I started sending them to the individual Banks mortgage departments head offices as well as the solicitors. This way I can call up the head offices/mortgage centres and they know me I've been doing it so long. It helps if you have a special case for a fast stage release every now and then.

RKQ

Banks / mortgage lenders might not listen to one lonely individual.
However, they might listen to 13 or twenty practices, with proven track records.

Of couse if these 13 could retain the services of a Solicitor that was an ex-President of the Law Society!

Could be interesting finding out...

( I'm not talking about setting up a group / organisation etc. not interested in reinventing the wheel.

I am interested in strengthening my business and protecting my Clients. I'm taking about existing people coming together to sort out a single issue!
To continue to Certify for those lenders they have always provided stage payments too)

muffler

raindog11 wrote: »

things change

As do your posting privileges.

archtech

We were recently asked to ensure that the professional qualification of the certifier was included in a recent the opinion of compliance. ... a sign of the times I expect.

Warden Dios

Good thread. I should have been on this forum years ago.

As this thread is about a year old whats the current situation with Certs of Compliance etc. (especially AIB)?

As the practise I mainly work for is about to go belly up in the next month or so I want to expand my services for the small amount of private work I do.

I've work 10 years as a Civil Eng/Building Technician and the last 10 years as a Arch technician. I recently joind CIAT as an Associate so as to allow me to perform Non Domestic Energy Ratings.

I'm currently working on the CIAT POP record so hopefully MCIAT wont be too far away. Do AIB accept MCIAT?

No6

Yes for stage payment certificates. Certificates of compliance are normally given to the solicitor who includes them in the title deeds. You will however have to become a profile member so register for the non dom first and you will have to get PI insurance. Best of luck warren.

Mellor

Warden Dios wrote: »

I recently joind CIAT as an Associate so as to allow me to perform Non Domestic Energy Ratings.

I haven't looked at this in a while as its not relevant to me anymore, but has the requirement of a level 8 degree been dropped to level 7? I was under the impression it was going to be

archtech

Mellor wrote: »

I haven't looked at this in a while as its not relevant to me anymore, but has the requirement of a level 8 degree been dropped to level 7? I was under the impression it was going to be

It has and it hasn't. It has if you are an architectural technician and a member of the RIAI as a RIAI(Arch.Tech). SEI have developed a list of Equivalent qualifications. For everyone else in the with level 7 we are out of the loop at present. However CIAT are actively pursuing it for its membership as we speak.

No6

archtech wrote: »

It has and it hasn't. It has if you are an architectural technician and a member of the RIAI as a RIAI(Arch.Tech). SEI have developed a list of Equivalent qualifications. For everyone else in the with level 7 we are out of the loop at present. However CIAT are actively pursuing it for its membership as we speak.

They definately are but it most likely will be only for members at MCIAT and possible TCIAT levels as they have done pop records. I still need to finish mine!!!

sydthebeat

ok, on the hush hush... (he says while posting on a public forum )

any certs we sign for aib is now appended with my ACIAT cert, and hasnt caused a problem (yet). I am at the beginning stages of my POP record and hope to have obtained MCIAT, or at least TCIAT, before an issue may arise...

Warden Dios

Mellor wrote: »

I haven't looked at this in a while as its not relevant to me anymore, but has the requirement of a level 8 degree been dropped to level 7? I was under the impression it was going to be

No it hasnt. Even though I work as a Technician I have a Level 9 qulaification, an MSc Architecture: Advanced Environmental and Energy Studies.