Bang Bang rules

sparrowcar

Skirmish rules about bang bang kill, surrender, die or whatever you call a close qtr kill are a bit hazy in my eyes.

I would like to give a quick scenario and ask your opinions on who is right and who is wrong?

Scene

Player 1 at corner of a building, he knows 3 enemy are around the other corner from his teammates intel. Enemy 1 is 2ft from corner and enemy 2&3 are aprox 20ft away.

Player 1 takes corner and shouts bang bang.... bang bang firstly aiming at enemy 1 and the enemy 2&3. Enemy 1 gives up, Enemy 2&3 did not see player 1 until at least the 3rd bang shout. (they were taking fire from a differerent direction)

Enemy 3 says to player 1 "that's not 10ft, you should have shot me" A small bit of confusion ensued with the outcome being we both played on. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I chose not to fire as it enemy 2&3 would have taken a dozen rounds each in the head (only goggles, no headwear). I wish i had now :mad:


My Question,

Who is right and who is wrong?

Witcher

easy, give enemy 2&3 each one shot from semi auto

so long as its over 10 ft its fine, aim low to avoid headshots

bang kill has to be 10ft or under, sure enemy 2&3 could call hit if someone shouted bang from

20 ft, but 20 ft gives you a chance to dive for cover or

return fire, so its unlikely a 20ft bang kill will be called, but if I was cornered I would call it.

horgan_p

IMHO : the bang bang is as good as being shot.the range should not be used to "escape" being hit.
personally , i would have offered the bang kill and if not accepted then a shot to the leg or torso ,not the head.
Most people will gladly take the hit and give a "well done " for being a sneaky so and so.

NakedDex

The bang rule is fairly clear really. Within 10ft you offer the bang kill. Beyond that, you fire your rifle/pistol.

If the person is beyond 10ft, no amount of shouting bang counts. If you're unsure about whether or not you should take the bang kill, take it anyway. Just as you would with a questoinable hit. It's only a 30 second walk to regen verus a 10 minute argument and a days worth of head shaking.

If two people turn a corner and shout bang at the same time to each other, the involved players can make the decision to both be counted as hit or both take 20 yards walk away and continue playing.

ED E

NakedDex wrote: »

The bang rule is fairly clear really. Within 10ft you offer the bang kill. Beyond that, you fire your rifle/pistol.

If the person is beyond 10ft, no amount of shouting bang counts. If you're unsure about whether or not you should take the bang kill, take it anyway. Just as you would with a questoinable hit. It's only a 30 second walk to regen verus a 10 minute argument and a days worth of head shaking.

If two people turn a corner and shout bang at the same time to each other, the involved players can make the decision to both be counted as hit or both take 20 yards walk away and continue playing.

You can offer a bang kill over ten feet, but they dont have to take it. If you flank someone and they have no idea you are there, take aim at their arse and shout bang. If they turn their gun towards you take em out but most will call it straight away.

sparrowcar

I thought about firing but i'm didn't feel like giving someone a good dental flossing with a few rounds of .20g's

Thanks for feedback

iceage

Yeah, just keep the rounds on the torso,.

Stercus Accidit

IMO a bang kill that is literally point blank, you both round a corner, is kind of clear cut, dont shoot, and they cant say you wouldn't have hit them.

Once its not point blank, but around ten feet or less (I don't care what anyone says, its not always easy to gauge distance under pressure) offer a bang kill, but be prepared to fire if they don't accept it was close enough to be a bang kill.
A bang kill should involve aiming at someone and it being unreasonable to think you could miss, then shouting bang, if they turn to fire or do anything other than acknowledge the hit in some way, shoot them.
If they moan they have ignored the bang kill so can't complain, make sure its loud enough so they cant say they didn't hear it.

@OP: at 20 feet you should have shot them, or at least have aimed at them when you shouted bang, meaning you would have shot them after they ignored it.

A bang kill is a courtesy, if they don't take it, shoot them.

Edit: at the end of the day, its a shooting game, expect to get shot now and then, it hurts a little but thats the nature of the game.

I.A.S. Ltd.

Also one thing that pi**es me off...I had a nice position hidden where noone knew I was there. Enemy player walks in, and I whisper "bang" so not to be found by his teammates (eg. knife kill in real life). He walks outta where I was hidden and announces to his team "Im dead" thus giving away my position...is there a way to remedy this?

o1s1n

I.A.S. Ltd. wrote: »

Also one thing that pi**es me off...I had a nice position hidden where noone knew I was there. Enemy player walks in, and I whisper "bang" so not to be found by his teammates (eg. knife kill in real life). He walks outta where I was hidden and announces to his team "Im dead" thus giving away my position...is there a way to remedy this?

No easy way of remedying it really. Just be thankful he didn't say 'He's over there!!!' and point at your exact position.

I.A.S. Ltd.

He may aswell have! He'd just walked in there and then walked out practically shouting "Im dead!". Maybe a no talking whatsoever rule for dead people?

Stercus Accidit

I.A.S. Ltd. wrote: »

He may aswell have! He'd just walked in there and then walked out practically shouting "Im dead!". Maybe a no talking whatsoever rule for dead people?

Dead men can't talk should be up in the rules, bar frantic assaults, but definitely in the bushes and sniper games.

Most experienced players do this anyway don't they?

I.A.S. Ltd.

But it should be "Dead Men Cant Talk, AT ALL not even to each other."

NakedDex

Agreed, not a word until you regen. Though a lot of lads already do this, it's only fair.

Stercus Accidit

I.A.S. Ltd. wrote: »

But it should be "Dead Men Cant Talk, AT ALL not even to each other."

I think that is worth consideration as a rule actually, but a dead man does still have to put up his hand and walk away, would that give the game away also?
Or perhaps is it at least more subtle.

I.A.S. Ltd.

In this situation they could've just walked off to their regen point, a sneeky bang kill usually means there was noone else who could kill them.

Spitfire666

a bang kill is not the same as a sneaky silent kill though. you may have been able to whisper bang but at the end of the day, if you where that well hidden would you have been able to kill him in any other way other then to shoot?

A bang kill is supposed to be just to stop you having to take a hit from close range. it is not so that you dont have to give away you're position.

As far as dead men dont talk, if they dont talk and say "I'm Dead" or "HIT" there is the risk of taking more hits from others. Or, it could be a case of the team saying "where are you going" or "is that room clear" etc and replying that your dead and re-gening so you cant say anything about enemy positions.

I dont think its reasonable to expect people to be completely silent after being killed. people are bad enough when it comes to shooting people who have called their hits, god knows what could happen if people didnt know you where dead.

as far as distance is concerned, if its a quick draw situation, i would rather shoot because if i dont shoot and call bang, and the other person shoots and hits me, he would be in a better position as far as i could see it.
Its also a curtesy, not a rule. if there is any chance of me being hit by calling bang, i wont do it. i'll just shoot. it causes to many arguments with distance and cover possibly getting in the way etc.

kdouglas

In situations like that, i'd probably go with bang kill the first guy since he's close, and a single shot each at the other two, just so there is no confusion. As well as the distance, I wouldn't try bang kill 3 people at the same time, it just get's messy, bang kill is really only for the scenario where you are very up close with one person and you offer it as a courtesy.

Spitfire666

exactly. if i knew there where 3 people, i wouldnt offer the bang and there would be arguments about how you could not have been able to shoot AND HIT all 3 of them without one of them hitting you first.

kdouglas

a perfect situation in which to emply a BB grenade

Masada

sparrowcar wrote: »

Skirmish rules about bang bang kill, surrender, die or whatever you call a close qtr kill are a bit hazy in my eyes.

I would like to give a quick scenario and ask your opinions on who is right and who is wrong?

Scene

Player 1 at corner of a building, he knows 3 enemy are around the other corner from his teammates intel. Enemy 1 is 2ft from corner and enemy 2&3 are aprox 20ft away.

Player 1 takes corner and shouts bang bang.... bang bang firstly aiming at enemy 1 and the enemy 2&3. Enemy 1 gives up, Enemy 2&3 did not see player 1 until at least the 3rd bang shout. (they were taking fire from a differerent direction)

Enemy 3 says to player 1 "that's not 10ft, you should have shot me" A small bit of confusion ensued with the outcome being we both played on. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I chose not to fire as it enemy 2&3 would have taken a dozen rounds each in the head (only goggles, no headwear). I wish i had now :mad:


My Question,

Who is right and who is wrong?

I would have bang killed the first guy and then double tapped the other 2 lads, if they were distracted by fire from another location you would have had plenty of opertunity to sight them and fire for the torso and at 20 ft the chances of missing are pretty low. Although the player rightly said "you should have shot me" becasuse you effectively doubled the bang rule distance and expected the same result.

Its funny though how a lot of people over estimate how small 10ft really is sometimes. ive had people chance it from silly distances and also in one case i had someone open up on me while sitting in a tree and he was both shooting and shouting "BANG"., lol he couldnt hit me with the BBs so there was no way i was gonna take the hit and when i heard the dry fire i just poped out and shot him.,

Id like to see the "red rag" rule implemented at airsoft sites actually, Instead of all this confusion about people asking you if youd dead, just take the rag one, place it over your head and walk away saying nothing.,

Spitfire666

i like the idea of the red rag but it is as effective as walking with a hand on your head having shouted hit.
also, it still relies on people seeing that you are displaying the rag to not keep shooting at you.

Arcto

Stand 20 feet away from a friend who is aiming an aeg at you. Have your back facing them.

Try to dodge the BB when you hear the piston moving.

It is possible....therefore i agree that players 2 and 3 shouldnt have been bang killed.

NakedDex

I had a guy try to bang kill me from the other side of a cabin before. Now that distance is well above the 10ft rule, but to make matters worse, the guy was in the middle of reloading. Not only did he not have is rifle pointed anywhere near me, or even have a magazine in it, he wasn't even looking in my direction. He was looking in his pockets for his next mag.
He must have just heard me round the corner and decided to shout it. To add insult to injury, he was absolutely incensed that I had shot him after he shouted "bang" and refused to take it.

Spitfire666

in the above situation, keep shooting......... until you draw blood at least.




THE ABOVE COMMENT IS MENT IN A HUMOUROUS MANNER AND IS NOT MENT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY, IN NO WAY SHOULD ANYONE EVER ATTEMPT TO SHOOT SOMEBODY UNTIL THEY DRAW BLOOD OR SHOOT ANYONE WHO IS INJURED.


I would however condone shooting somebody who attempts to argue a bang kill. they way i look at it, if he argues that you should have shot or that you couldn't have shot him, shoot them then and move on.

NakedDex

I did actually hit him a few more times but he still refused. Part of me wanted to go and use my rifle as a club, the other part of me said walk away.
I did have words with him later in the safe zone about it though (when I calmed down a bit). He had the cheek to argue about it too, saying I shouldn't have kept playing after he shouted bang (ie, when I walked away to continue the skirmish). He didn't accept that a bang kill is offered and therefore does not neccessarily have to be taken, no more than he accepted that the range limit on a bang kill is 10ft.

Gatling

the main issue with bang kills is though it is a courtesy and as pointed out by spitfire its not a rule ,

is how its interperted by indiviuals there's the main problem ,

some people have have tried bang killing whole porta cabins for 20ft away from behind a stack of pallets ,

to the people who bang kill 6-8 people with out even drawing a side arm or pointing there primary,

at best of times bang kills are messy , i wont use a bang kill unless im less than 10ft away
with my finger on the trigger and selector on semi,

i bang killed more people as a marshal for safety reasons more than ive bang killed in a skirmish,

but because theres no set rule of what exactly is a bang kill and its uses,

its going to stay messy

Dex in my view you were in the right ,you have to be aiming down the sites of your primary or side arm to bang kill somebody not just shouting ut

Stercus Accidit

I agree with the above.

If you offer a bang kill you must be aiming a loaded aeg at the opponent, if they refuse it, then you shoot them.

Its a courtesy you offer them to avoid a painful point blank shot, they are never obligated to take it.

It is bloody airsoft after all, the game where you shoot people.

Stercus Accidit

Actually, this isn't the first time this has come up on the forum, been argued and essentially agreed on, but nothing happen.

Can we try to come up with a definitive bang kill rule, that can be applied by the sites and enforced.

Here's my draft:

"A bang kill should be offered at less than 10ft,

You must point a loaded airsoft gun at your opponent and shout bang,

The opponent is not obligated to take the "hit" from the bang kill, in this case you may shoot them, this should not be an issue as you should have a loaded airsoft gun already pointed at them, and they have ignored the hit.

If an opponent is less than 10ft away, points his aeg at you and shouts "bang" you should treat it as being hit, if you believe he is further than 10ft away, or does not have his aeg loaded or pointed at you, you may ignore the hit if its reasonable to think the opponent may have missed or not shot you in time, following the rule that the opponents gun should be loaded and aimed at you, they should be able to shoot you even if you ignore the bang kill.

If in this case you shoot them and they could not shoot you, it is reasonable to think they did not have a definite kill and the bang kill was not valid."


I don't know if the first line should be "should" or "must",

I don't know if an opponent not hearing the "bang" should be mentioned, or what the rule should be on this.

The above is a draft, anyone who wants to propose a different rule fire ahead, maybe if we come up with something clear we can use it as the rule at sites.

Spetzcong

Some sites don't use bang kills at all, they just have a semi and torso shots from within 10 feet only rule. I have found that this works out much better for 90% of situations to be honest, and when you really have the jump on someone you can offer them a bang kill even if it isn't strictly in the site rules, they'll either take it and be greatful, or ignore it and get shot.

I think, no matter what the bang kill rules are, people are always going to chance their arm and try to take out 15 people from 25 ft, with an unloaded AEG while facing the opposite direction and the likes.

I reckon if all sites employed the semi-auto/torso shot rule, and bang kills were just something that players choose to do off their own bat when they were feeling merciful then there would be a lot less bang kill shenanigans.

Shiva

Motosam wrote: »

"A bang kill should be offered at less than 10ft,

You must point a loaded airsoft gun at your opponent and shout bang,

The opponent is not obligated to take the "hit" from the bang kill, in this case you may shoot them, this should not be an issue as you should have a loaded airsoft gun already pointed at them, and they have ignored the hit."

Its entirely feasible that the first you'll know they're not taking the bang kill is when they swing and fire on you. If they hit you before you manage to get off a shot, who takes the hit ? Them, because you offered a bang kill ? Well, no, because they aren't obliged to take it. You, because you could have taken the shot, but didn't ? Well, no, because you could as easily have shot rather than offer a bang kill which they aren't obliged to take.

And before anyone says "Oh, but airsoft depends on the honour system and one or both players should just take the hit because its a 20 second walk to the regen point"....please...if that were the case we wouldn't be having these endless discussions on hit taking and bang kills.

Not having a go at you Sam, or anyone else, but I really don't think you can legislate for bang kills - there are too many variables to consider, not least of which is the state of mind or personality of the person on the receiving end.

Best thing in my not very humble opinion is to just carry on with the bang kill being optional for both sides, and let a marshal sort it out if there's a strong difference of opinion on the field. Plus we all get to rehash it on Boards and swap bang kill stories later. Which is fun, lets face it

Stercus Accidit

I wish everyone had that sort of common cop on.

Just from reading dex's post above though, what a ****ing ridiculous situation.

At the very least, having a loaded airsoft gun pointed at the opponent to get a bang kill should be the minimum.

Combined with shooting anyone who ignores the bang kill, I think it would eliminate most of the messing.

Masada

actually, funny story from a couple of weeks ago, i was marshalling and this guy came up to the corner of one of the kill houses, he peeked arould the corner with his finger and said "bang" to the guy on the other side., rofl.,

ED E

I.A.S. Ltd. wrote: »

Also one thing that pi**es me off...I had a nice position hidden where noone knew I was there. Enemy player walks in, and I whisper "bang" so not to be found by his teammates (eg. knife kill in real life). He walks outta where I was hidden and announces to his team "Im dead" thus giving away my position...is there a way to remedy this?

Nah, IMO for a "silent kill" you have to tap them on the shoulder. That kinda signifies slitting their throat. If you offer a bang, its just that, a BANG. Yeah, technically you could headshot them but even then its possible they'd scream out or tense and fire their weapon. I think its fair he called out, but only if he does it straight away right where he was standing. Shoulda poked him.

andros

Shoot first ask questions later, best rule. Shoot safe body parts from close range. And don't shout "Bang, Bang" from other side of the field or when you don't have a clear shot. Yeah and one more thing it's just a game.

There is only point using bang bang rule when everybody does, if not you get shot. Simple.

Stercus Accidit

Shiva wrote: »

Its entirely feasible that the first you'll know they're not taking the bang kill is when they swing and fire on you. If they hit you before you manage to get off a shot, who takes the hit ? Them, because you offered a bang kill ? Well, no, because they aren't obliged to take it. You, because you could have taken the shot, but didn't ? Well, no, because you could as easily have shot rather than offer a bang kill which they aren't obliged to take.

And before anyone says "Oh, but airsoft depends on the honour system and one or both players should just take the hit because its a 20 second walk to the regen point"....please...if that were the case we wouldn't be having these endless discussions on hit taking and bang kills.

Not having a go at you Sam, or anyone else, but I really don't think you can legislate for bang kills - there are too many variables to consider, not least of which is the state of mind or personality of the person on the receiving end.

Best thing in my not very humble opinion is to just carry on with the bang kill being optional for both sides, and let a marshal sort it out if there's a strong difference of opinion on the field. Plus we all get to rehash it on Boards and swap bang kill stories later. Which is fun, lets face it

Ah sure what can you do,

I just made a suggestion, it was never intended to be a perfect solution, the old cliche, common sense isn't common comes to mind.

It would be nice if it was clear cut though, it just seems so obvious, how do people not get it still?

TBH I prefer the idea of the shot to the torso at close range, a bang kill should be a last resort anyway, why wouldn't you want to shoot someone

johnboyire

it should be optional, using common sense,

if you are going to use the rule you should have a line of site and be aiming your aeg - this should be one of the basics for these situations

if the person you are bang killing looks like they are going to fire on you - two body shots would be fair to avoid rows.

if the range is anyway in doubt - two shots to the body should be fine,

the same rule should apply for multiple targets, a body shot for each if you can manage it, this situation of shouting BANG BANG BANG !! and wiping out a squad is just plain silly. if someone is going to try that it should be re-named the rambo rule.

Spitfire666

it should just be done away with completely as a rule. if people then want to offer it if they have the drop on somebody, and they decide to accept, then so be it.
even to say that semi auto only is a must when close has its problems. at the end of the day, if you have alot of buildings at a site then semi is all you'd be able to use. in old hrta (completely indoors) it wasn't semi or bang rules as much as short bursts. you got hit by a few bbs but where under no illusion that you where not hit. and 10 feet was a long way away in there at times.

Rhinocharge

It is my understanding that airsoft is a combat simulation sport & in all earnest should be played as such.
Shoot first & fill out the paperwork afterwards.

The "Bang" rule will only come into effect if all agree to it. Since it can't be decided on, maybe it's best to point your airsoft unit, give the option of the "Bang" & if it's not accepted, shoot.

I treat everyone as extreme prejudice, especially those trigger happy goons ( you know who you are ) on my own team.

For those whom can't measure distances visually, 10 foot is normally 4 -5 strides.

Sod'o swords

The way I see it is that if someone's 15 or so feet away and they say bang yes I may be able to get to cover or they may miss, but the fact that the person didn't shoot me at that range means that they were trying to take my safety into account even if it wouldn't really hurt(or they were new and afraid of getting given out to for firing so close)
But I much favor this situation than getting shot in the neck,head, arm and chest (and some other place) at 4 of 5 feet away.

*well he was beside a pallet which he shot two feet away from myself and it ricocheted into the lads.....

Spetzcong

Spitfire666 wrote: »

it should just be done away with completely as a rule. if people then want to offer it if they have the drop on somebody, and they decide to accept, then so be it.
even to say that semi auto only is a must when close has its problems. at the end of the day, if you have alot of buildings at a site then semi is all you'd be able to use. in old hrta (completely indoors) it wasn't semi or bang rules as much as short bursts. you got hit by a few bbs but where under no illusion that you where not hit. and 10 feet was a long way away in there at times.

I agree. You don't need to be on semi to only fire one or two shots though, I think the idea would be more to avoid people opening up on full auto and hosing someone who was within 10 feet.

It all comes back to the old saying, treat other players as you would like to be treated yourself.

ED E

Also, I'd like to emphasize that its a shot to the torso, not shots. Especially when they're already running away from you.....

PS: Dont hold me accountable for my language if you riddle me at point blank:p

Tigger

i very seldom give bang kills but i use pistols up close and shoot to the torso
i take bang kills but prefer to be shot personally tho i don't believe that you have the drop on three at once

kevteljeur

I've given a very few bangs recently, and taken quite a few more. I have to say I'd prefer if people shot me in earnest, and saved bangs for when they'd hit me in the face or neck without it - but I appreciate the courtesy of it when there's no doubt I'd be hit and hurt without it. It actually bothers me that people use it when out of ammo, or the pedantry of it.

Come on people, we're all so anal about safety and wearing various protective items, we're not in any great danger - I'd be more concerned about point-blank blind-firing and intentional 1 metre head-shots by tools who need to be removed from the game. Less bang, more hit please.


To put it in perspective, I'm still limping from a footie injury from a month ago, and thinking of giving it up entirely because of the injuries from my hour a week of abuse. Airsoft is gentle mollycoddling by comparison.

Rhinocharge

Airsoft is gentle mollycoddling by comparison.[/quote]


Agree wholeheartily

johnboyire

kevteljeur wrote: »

I've given a very few bangs recently, and taken quite a few more. I have to say I'd prefer if people shot me in earnest, and saved bangs for when they'd hit me in the face or neck without it - but I appreciate the courtesy of it when there's no doubt I'd be hit and hurt without it. It actually bothers me that people use it when out of ammo, or the pedantry of it.

Come on people, we're all so anal about safety and wearing various protective items, we're not in any great danger - I'd be more concerned about point-blank blind-firing and intentional 1 metre head-shots by tools who need to be removed from the game. Less bang, more hit please.


To put it in perspective, I'm still limping from a footie injury from a month ago, and thinking of giving it up entirely because of the injuries from my hour a week of abuse. Airsoft is gentle mollycoddling by comparison.

totally agree, no-one wants this sport turning into healthandsafetysoft just wear a mask

Tommyboy71

kevteljeur wrote: »

I've given a very few bangs recently, and taken quite a few more.

Whhhaaaatttt?:eek::eek::eek:

But on a more serious note. This is a very grey area. If players are frequenting sites where there is no bang kill rules, then they go to a site where it is enforced, it likely that they will forget/not be used to it.

Personally I use it if I only have a head shot available.

Alvin T. Grey

My take?
You should have shot them both while they were arguing.
If they argue that, call a marshall.

Secondly IMO, if the bang rule is to be suspended in favour of a single shot to the torso: People have to practice indexing, trigger control, and maneuver around objects.

Or else we are going to loose more teeth.

kevteljeur

Tommyboy71 wrote: »

Whhhaaaatttt?:eek::eek::eek:

But on a more serious note. This is a very grey area. If players are frequenting sites where there is no bang kill rules, then they go to a site where it is enforced, it likely that they will forget/not be used to it.

Personally I use it if I only have a head shot available.

Very CQB games at HRTA, and got bang-killed a lot (Vtec largely responsible); the best was the young fella who came up to Eric and myself while we were discussing our next move and said "Bang?". Technically, I could have shot him then, but it was a friendly game and he was new. I wasn't going to be pedantic about it.

I agree entirely with your sentiments, I think it's something that people should be aware of, but enforced only for real, genuine safety where you are likely to injure a player. Otherwise, let's take off the goggles and pads, and play like real men!

Masada

ive actually modified a couple of my guns for this exact purpose, bang kills can be controversial but getting shot is absolute. So yeah, i have stubby firing about 240-250ish so it wont really hurt anyone if i shoot them too close.,

Spitfire666

anyone who played the initiation game of jugernaught at old htra knows that at the end of the day, small bursts don't hurt all that much. even at close range.
there is no need to be over protective about getting shot, at the end of the day, as long as its not somebody unloading the whole mag, so be it. the game is about shooting at people and getting shot at.