M8 motorway (general thread)

marmurr1916

Stark wrote: »

Can it actually be kept though? I remember the Cashel bypass being terminated by roundabouts with the old N8 at both ends but they had to be removed to make way for sliproads and dumbbell roundabouts and to allow it to continue seamlessly into the new M8 sections.

Fair point. I was thinking more of a junction serving Cullahill and Durrow I guess. It would also provide a link to the N77 for traffic heading to Kilkenny.

BluntGuy

Looking at the EIS for the portaloise-cullahill, the drawings indicate that the section was to end at an AT-GRADE roundabout, that was to be removed once cullahill-cashel was complete.

HOWEVER...

Since Cullahill-Cashel is going to opening beforehand, perhaps things may have changed.

I haven't been up there for a while, so I don't know what they're doing.

If they're building a (grade-seperated) dumbell junction, it's unlikely that they'll remove it (waste of money). However, if they're building an at-grade roundabout then... their evil plan is going to become a reality. I just hope it's the former of the two.

Amtmann

BluntGuy wrote: »

Looking at the EIS for the portaloise-cullahill, the drawings indicate that the section was to end at an AT-GRADE roundabout, that was to be removed once cullahill-cashel was complete.

HOWEVER...

Since Cullahill-Cashel is going to opening beforehand, perhaps things may have changed.

I haven't been up there for a while, so I don't know what they're doing.

If they're building a (grade-seperated) dumbell junction, it's unlikely that they'll remove it (waste of money). However, if they're building an at-grade roundabout then... their evil plan is going to become a reality. I just hope it's the former of the two.

It's at grade unfortunately.

BluntGuy

Well then...

That's bad news.

It means that their original plan is going ahead.

However, the plan is stupid as it will require massive roadworks to remove the damn thing. It also means that people who enter at Cullahill on a regular basis from December 5th (presumably), will be denied access from that point when the Cullahill-Portlaoise section opens.

It's such a badly-thought out idea, but there's nothing we can do to change it I guess.

Amtmann

BluntGuy wrote: »

Well then...

That's bad news.

It means that their original plan is going ahead.

However, the plan is stupid as it will require massive roadworks to remove the damn thing. It also means that people who enter at Cullahill on a regular basis from December 5th (presumably), will be denied access from that point when the Cullahill-Portlaoise section opens.

It's such a badly-thought out idea, but there's nothing we can do to change it I guess.

It's won't be that awkward to remove. The roundabout is not situated at the end of the Cashel to Cullahill scheme.
Instead, it is at the end of an at grade slip road (about 50 meters in length) which juts off laterally from the mainline to join the present N8 about 50 meters from the terminal point of the C to C scheme, meaning that it will be reasonably easy and inexpensive to remove.

Obviously I agree that it's a small scandal that a new junction isn't being built.

BluntGuy

Furet wrote: »

Not really. The roundabout is not situated at the end of the Cashel to Cullahill scheme.
Instead, it is at the end of an at grade slip road (about 50 meters in length) which juts off laterally from the mainline to join the present N8 about 50 meters from the terminal point of the C to C scheme, meaning that it will be easy and inexpensive to remove.

That's funny.

The EIS has it as an at-grade roundabout straight at the end of the mainline (rather than jutting off).

Is there anyway the roundabout could be maintained (at least to give people an oppurtunity to avoid the toll)?

Amtmann

BluntGuy wrote: »

That's funny.

The EIS has it as an at-grade roundabout straight at the end of the mainline (rather than jutting off).

Is there anyway the roundabout could be maintained (at least to give people an oppurtunity to avoid the toll)?

I'm no expert, but I don't see how just yet. The slip road (such as it is) is sited on what will be the southbound side of the motorway; yet the direction of the sliproad is lateral, almost at a narrow oblique angle to the motorway (a southbound car on the M8 that wanted to take it would have to slow down well in advance and indicate), and obviously there'll be no access for northbound traffic when the scheme is completed, so I think it'll definitely have to go. Also, it's really short. Because it's at grade, and because there's no high ground near it, I can't take a photo, so here is a pathetic drawing:

Danno

I was looking at it today myself and they've started tar work on the roundabout on the Laois Kilkenny border. It seems that the drawing posted bu Furet is quite accurate.

However, the grand plan AFAIK is for the N77 to begin here and run to Durrow, where a southern bypass is planned. So it is hard to see why this border junction will be removed. Unless of course, they decide to run the N77 to Urlingford?

Amtmann

Danno wrote: »

I was looking at it today myself and they've started tar work on the roundabout on the Laois Kilkenny border. It seems that the drawing posted bu Furet is quite accurate.

However, the grand plan AFAIK is for the N77 to begin here and run to Durrow, where a southern bypass is planned. So it is hard to see why this border junction will be removed. Unless of course, they decide to run the N77 to Urlingford?

Danno, where did you hear it'll open on Dec 5?

BluntGuy

Okay... I get it now.

It's a shame, because it seems kinda unfair to people who live in Cullahill.

I guess it's okay as long as they don't stick toll gantries onto junction 3. However, if the M8 Fermoy scheme is anything to go by, that's exactly what they'll do.

If they do that: in effect, the PPP starts at Junction 4 - Urlingford.

Amtmann

BluntGuy wrote: »

Okay... I get it now.

It's a shame, because it seems kinda unfair to people who live in Cullahill.

I guess it's okay as long as they don't stick toll gantries onto junction 3. However, if the M8 Fermoy scheme is anything to go by, that's exactly what they'll do.

If they do that: in effect, the PPP starts at Junction 4 - Urlingford.

Of course the NRA can always say that the 12 km of the Cashel to Cullahill Scheme that started off as motorway is and always will be toll free -- you just can't leave it once you're on it without entering the PPP scheme too. Weasel words, but there you go...

BluntGuy

Well the Cullahill-Portlaoise EIS doesn't have toll gantries on any of the junctions, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that that's how it will ultimately end up.

But I have this feeling that they will be sticking toll gantries on junction 3 and junction 20. You can tell by the position and the design (especially junction 20).

I think if this wasn't being done as a PPP scheme we'd probably have:

> A full M7-M8 junction. Or at least a junction that permits M8N > M7W movements (wouldn't be too difficult, only requires an at-grade left slip).

> A proper, full junction 20, rather than a horrible limited access junction which only permits you to enter and exit the M7 from a westbound direction.

> A junction near Cullahill.


However, as with most PPP schemes, getting the most money out of the road means restricting access as much as possible so that you can toll EVERYBODY who uses the road.

Danno

There is a junction on the Roscrea-Durrow (R434) for this motorway. I'm sure that toll avoiders will contemplate using this, use it a few times, see how poor the Ballacolla -> Abbeyleix R433 route is and say, feck it, I'll just pay the €2.

Danno

Furet wrote: »

Danno, where did you hear it'll open on Dec 5?

A friend of a friend of the builder. It is hearsay, but I'd be pretty confident it will turn out on Dec 5th.

Amtmann

Danno wrote: »

A friend of a friend of the builder. It is hearsay, but I'd be pretty confident it will turn out on Dec 5th.

Thanks. I think it definitely won't open any later than that. I remember about a month before the Cashel to Mitchelstown scheme opened, people were saying "early August"; it opened late July.

I'm still holding out for the last week of November. It'll make a huge difference to County Tipperary: the entire county will be bisected by the M8 when it opens. And rapid progress is now being made. It seems as though the builders are making a bust at it now.

The tie in with the Cashel Bypass is all but complete: both carriageways are in the process of being lined and have cats eyes put down. So, we should see the unsightly sandbags and cones being removed from the northern end of the Cashel Bypass very soon.

The scheme is lined (pretty much) up as far the Horse and Jockey/Thurles junction (Exit 6). From here to the next junction is not lined, nor has the final coat of asphalt been applied. That is being done next week.

From Junction 5 (Two-mile-borris) to Junction 4 (Urlingford) the scheme is complete, except for the actual Junction 4 itself. Rapid progress is being made here, however. From there the scheme is finished right up to its terminus at the Laois border, where a temporary slip road and roundabout have been placed.

Meanwhile, in the County of Cork the Mitchelstown to Fermoy scheme proceeds apace. Two photos are linked to below. I now believe the entire scheme will open at the same time, and by March/April next year.

Why?

Because many parts of the scheme are as advanced now as Cashel to Cullahill was last June. Also, because they are getting ready now at both ends to tie the scheme into the southern terminus of the Cashel to Mitchelstown project and the northern terminus of the Fermoy Bypass.

I'm very excited about this section opening. I think this is the bit where the most time saving will be made (relative to its length) and it will replace what is without doubt a very treacherous stretch of the N8 -- one where people die annually.

I also think this scheme will be very scenic when it opens. It passes through some lovely countryside and isn't sunk down too deeply everywhere.

Stark

Danno wrote: »

There is a junction on the Roscrea-Durrow (R434) for this motorway. I'm sure that toll avoiders will contemplate using this, use it a few times, see how poor the Ballacolla -> Abbeyleix R433 route is and say, feck it, I'll just pay the €2.

The Ballycolla -> Durrow R434 is a nice road though. Not quite as direct as going straight to Abbeyleix, but you'd still get to use an extra 10km of motorway for free, assuming they don't put toll gantries on Junction 3.

BluntGuy

Danno wrote: »

There is a junction on the Roscrea-Durrow (R434) for this motorway. I'm sure that toll avoiders will contemplate using this, use it a few times, see how poor the Ballacolla -> Abbeyleix R433 route is and say, feck it, I'll just pay the €2.

I am almost certain they'll shove toll gantries onto junction 3.

Junction 2 is local access only which is useless if you're trying to avoid paying the toll.

Junction 1 leads straight into the M7 for the toll plaza.

So the only option will be to exit at junction 4 if you want to save yourself that bit o' cash.

Now, of course, they may be nice and allow motorists to escape at junction 3. If that happens, well... it'll just be wonderful.

BluntGuy

Aplogies for the double-post, but I just have to say this.

Like Furet says, this Mitchelstown-Fermoy section is really flying along!

I drove past there earliar (I wish I'd taken some shots), and there is so much work done, especially past junction 13. Junction 13 to Junction 14 is in many senses complete. They've begun to erect the foundations for the central median, and the tie-in work near Fermoy is progessing quite well (although it is quite messy).

I know Furet already said this, but after seeing it for myself I just couldn't believe the outstanding progress.

It's certainly gonna be opening a long time before March 2010 (as the sign near the road says)...

Bards

some of you may be interested in this http://www.engineersireland.ie/uploads/Files/EngineeringMagazines/%7B2CBDBF46B3AA481E99A503868CED8766%7D_CASHEL_MITCHELSTOWN.PDF

Amtmann

Okay, so I managed to speak to a builder on Mitchelstown to Fermoy today, and he says there'll be a sectional opeing between Junction 13 and 14, probably by March. The remainder will probably open by June.

Amtmann

Bit of an update on the Cork Roads Office site; it seems Roadbridge have formally acknowledged that the scheme will open earlier than initially anticipated, though they're still being very conservative with the December 09 figure. (We know better )

http://www.corkrdo.ie/n8_fermoy_mitchelstown_scheme_current_stage.php

BluntGuy

Furet wrote: »

Bit of an update on the Cork Roads Office site; it seems Roadbridge have formally acknowledged that the scheme will open earlier than initially anticipated, though they're still being very conservative with the December 09 figure. (We know better )

http://www.corkrdo.ie/n8_fermoy_mitchelstown_scheme_current_stage.php

December 09?

Whose arse did they pull that figure out of? :rolleyes:

Have any of the people who work at the Cork Roads Office actually SEEN the progress being made there...

August 09 would have been a much better date if they wanted to be conservative about it.

But then again, I suppose, if they set later dates: they make it seem like the projects were completed "early".

Amtmann

BluntGuy wrote: »

December 09?

Whose arse did they pull that figure out of? :rolleyes:

Have any of the people who work at the Cork Roads Office actually SEEN the progress being made there...

August 09 would have been a much better date if they wanted to be conservative about it.

But then again, I suppose, if they set later dates: they make it seem like the projects were completed "early".

Actually Roadbridge gave the Dec. 09 estimate. Cute-hoordom is alive and well (but in this case, who's complaining? Methinks Roadbridge is a super contractor).

serfboard

Furet wrote: »

Actually Roadbridge gave the Dec. 09 estimate. Cute-hoordom is alive and well (but in this case, who's complaining? Methinks Roadbridge is a super contractor).

Presumably there are bonuses to be paid if the contract comes in ahead of schedule?

marmurr1916

Furet wrote: »

Okay, so I managed to speak to a builder on Mitchelstown to Fermoy today, and he says there'll be a sectional opeing between Junction 13 and 14, probably by March. The remainder will probably open by June.

Cool. Motorway all the way from Dunkettle to just south of the Mitchelstown bypass by Easter. :cool:

BluntGuy

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Cool. Motorway all the way from Dunkettle to just south of the Mitchelstown bypass by Easter. :cool:

Dunkettle to Cullahill by August methinks...

That's roughly 115 km...

That of course is assuming that Dunkettle is redesignated and has its signage replaced before that time.

The NRA did say that this round of redesignations would be a lot quicker, so I think it's reasonable to say that the S.I will be passed in January.

BluntGuy

Just been to the Cork Roads website and I think congratulations are in order.

In just under a year of construction, they have managed to upload an amazing two pictures onto their website. Compare that to the N25 website which is chock full of information (except of course whether the damn road is a motorway).

Can't somebody there spare a few minutes to upload a couple of snaps and make the page a bit more informative.

Irish and Proud

BluntGuy wrote: »

Just been to the Cork Roads website and I think congratulations are in order.

In just under a year of construction, they have managed to upload an amazing two pictures onto their website. Compare that to the N25 website which is chock full of information (except of course whether the damn road is a motorway).

Can't somebody there spare a few minutes to upload a couple of snaps and make the page a bit more informative.

By coincidence, that's exactly what I'm thinking in relation to Irish road construction as a whole. The information available, considering the sheer scale of road construction here, is pathetic. Even though Britain has around 14 times our population, if the same linear distance of motorway was currently under construction there, one would never hear the end of it - the British would be a greatest ever. You know, 4 major motorways underway here as opposed the Britain's two (A1(M) and M74), and apart from Furet's contribution, sweet damn all about the Irish M6, M7, M8 and M9 motorways, not to mention the M50 upgrade which has some very complex junctions, comparable to most major junctions in Britain. Sure if Britain had a similar road blitz underway, the SABRE servers would melt under the volume of web traffic. :eek:

Now, please don't say that Britain already has a motorway network - it does, but it's rather basic with the West (M5/M6/M74) and East (M1) spines, with a couple of cross links (M4 & M62), a couple of Rings (M25 & M60) and spurs (M3, M8, M11, M20 etc). For 60m people, the network is inadequate - for example, the A14, A34, A27, A55 etc should all be of motorway standard. The get straight to the point, if all of the proposed motorways in Ireland get built (and it looks like most of them will), we'll have something like 40-50% of Britain's linear length, even though they have 14 times our population - now that's some food for thought!!! :cool:

Let's take a bit more interest and pride in this country and FFS, stop knocking it. Of course it's far from perfect, but what country isn't??? :mad:

By my name, let's be Irish and Proud!!!

Regards!

PS - I better get the camera out myself!

BluntGuy

Well I've tried my best to inform as much as possible.

Myself and Furet have created Wikipedia pages for the M6, M8 and M9 and tidied up the M1 and M7 pages. And I try and keep the other road pages up-to-date.

But I don't have the time to drive up and down the country just to take pictures of roads and find out how fast they're progressing. And I shouldn't have to drive to a road to find out how it's progressing.

There is no proper website for M7/M8 upgrade despite the fact it's possibly the most critical upgrade on both of the M7 and M8. There is no website for Cullahill to Cashel. None of the online road maps/direction-finders have included the recent motorway redesignations. The M9 website is uninformative. The Cork Roads website still claims that "It is proposed to construct a new national primary route to motorway standards, separate from the existing N8, between Watergrasshill and Moorepark in County Cork" - i.e the M8 Fermoy Bypass which opened 2 years ago. The M50 upgrade website is awful, and is actually LESS informative than it was when it was launched.

Basically it's a disgrace.

I think there needs to be a single cohesive site outlining each major road scheme, with photographs, updates and at least monthly progress reports. (not the NRA's website which just lists all schemes but doesn't give updates etc.)

The collection of poor, uninformative sites we have at the moment is ridiculous...

BluntGuy

Anyway, if you're looking for info about the M6/M7/M8/M9, you'll find pretty much everything you're going to get on these pages:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M6_motorway_(Ireland)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M7_motorway_(Ireland)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M8_motorway_(Ireland)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M9_motorway_(Ireland)