Begineer.. so lost.. what to do..

jokkon

Hi,

I am new to this forum and to this industry. I recently landed a part-time computer sales job in a brick and mortar store and the manager has recommended me to take the CompTIA A+ IT Technician exam. After about two weeks of studying I passed the A+. Since I am already half way through my B.Sc (Physics) program, I am considering of going into the IT industry after I graduate. (Unfortunately I don't think my grades are good enough to enter a decent M.Sc or Ph.D program). Also, I know so little about the industry and my coworkers are all only A+ so I am hoping the experts on this forum could answer a couple of my questions:

1. Is it detrimental for me to study and get all these certs (Network+,MCTS,MCSA...etc) without really having any real-life, hands-on experience in Networking? (Honestly, the only networking I have ever done in my life is to hook up 3 computers with a router.)

2. Should I get an entry level job before I attempt to get these certifications? When I am studying for these exams, these stuff mean nothing to me and even though I do learn the materials, I feel like the knowledge that I am getting from all these exams don't really amount to anything practical.

3. How did you guys got into the industry? The reason why I am considering IT as a potential career is because I am sick of doing retail (All my jobs have been in the retail environment because they offer flexible hours for University students). I feel almost expendable and anyone could replace me.

Right now I am studying for my CompTIA Network+ exam. It doesn't seem to be that difficult and I was thinking of getting my MCSA or at least getting the 70-620 exam down. After that I don't know what to do, work towards a MCSE? a MCITP? or get the Cisco Certs.. Please advise.

Excuse me for writing such a long post... and thank you for your time

cance

jokkon wrote: »

1. Is it detrimental for me to study and get all these certs (Network+,MCTS,MCSA...etc) without really having any real-life, hands-on experience in Networking? (Honestly, the only networking I have ever done in my life is to hook up 3 computers with a router.)

You have to get your experience somewhere, why not from study and examinations?

Your study can be treated as your hands on experience, with cisco simulators and Microsoft virtual machines there is very little you cant get your hands on to practice for these exams. The exams are a foot in the door for IT interviews, they wont carry you through but they may tick the checklist of the HR person to get an interview.

jokkon wrote: »

2. Should I get an entry level job before I attempt to get these certifications? When I am studying for these exams, these stuff mean nothing to me and even though I do learn the materials, I feel like the knowledge that I am getting from all these exams don't really amount to anything practical.

If you intend on learning your trade while working, an entry level position is the way to go, i was an MCSA straight out of college and took a hardware support job with Dell computers to pay the bills and pay for my exams, i got 2 years experience there while making my way through the support departments then move on to bigger and better things.

jokkon wrote: »

3. How did you guys got into the industry? The reason why I am considering IT as a potential career is because I am sick of doing retail (All my jobs have been in the retail environment because they offer flexible hours for University students). I feel almost expendable and anyone could replace me.

As above i went and did an MCSA course, i was always interested in IT from a personal interest and couldn't think of anything else id like to do. I'm 3 years out of Dell now and I'm working as a senior systems administrator for a Mobile communications company.

On a side note, as long as I enjoy what I'm doing, I'll keep on doing it... Outsourcing is a real issue in large companies these days, either from offshore competitors (indian helpdesks) or external companies (Dell's DMS, IBM and HP) my personal advise would be to ensure whatever you choose to do, it requires you to be on site.

Ginger

jokkon wrote: »

1. Is it detrimental for me to study and get all these certs (Network+,MCTS,MCSA...etc) without really having any real-life, hands-on experience in Networking? (Honestly, the only networking I have ever done in my life is to hook up 3 computers with a router.)

You can pick up the MCTS in Vista without much experience. Considering that I got, just from being able to use Vista without much effort. Its an entry level exam and geared at those doing level 1 tech support. A very easy way to get you into your MCSA. The easiest route for you would be in very humble opinion

1. MCTS Vista (70-620) //counts as your elective
2. MCP XP (70-270) //Client exam
3. MCP Windows Server 2003 (70-290) //Core server exam
4. MCSA (70-291 AD Design) //Core server exam

The first 3 are ok, not too tricky and can be got without too much study but require a bit of playing around with the software which is easy in a virtual machine environment.

The last one requires a bit of work as its all IP addressing, DNS, WINS, routing etc.

With the advent of virtual machines its easier to get hands on experience without having a massive server rack in front of you. Makes life a lot easier and will get you in the door ahead of some other people.

jokkon wrote: »

2. Should I get an entry level job before I attempt to get these certifications? When I am studying for these exams, these stuff mean nothing to me and even though I do learn the materials, I feel like the knowledge that I am getting from all these exams don't really amount to anything practical.

Practical experience is always good regardless. It helps an employer to know that someone else hired you to do the job that they want you to do. If you have an interest in this stuff it will filter in and stay there. If it doesnt, it will float out and be of no benefit. I have a few certs that i dont need for my day to day job but did the exam because I like the stuff so its there just in case

Practical experience can come from working on a simple network at home to anything up to full scale datacentres. You have to start somewhere! Having the certs will show dedication and a willingness to learn.

jokkon wrote: »

3. How did you guys got into the industry? The reason why I am considering IT as a potential career is because I am sick of doing retail (All my jobs have been in the retail environment because they offer flexible hours for University students). I feel almost expendable and anyone could replace me.

I have a degree in Computer systems. I did a stint as a network admin but I am a dev by trade. I still keep my sys admin skills up just because I like the stuff, and also because it helps knowing that stuff when deploying applications.

I would go get the MCSA first and then you can also upgrade to 2008 if you feel the need. The MCSA is widely recognised moreso than the MCITP on Windows 2008.

Hope that helps

NullZer0

Ginger wrote: »

1. MCTS Vista (70-620) //counts as your elective

Are you sure this counts as an elective? - For MCSA?

Ginger

Yes

If you look at the requirements you will see on the Client exam requirements that 70-620 is listed (and with a superscript 3)

Go down to electives it is also listed.

The note is that it can count as either a client or elective but not both. So if you use it as an elective you need 70-270 as the client exam

jokkon

Thank you very much for all the replies. I think Ginger is right, I will try to get a MCSA in the 2003 path to get an solid foundation first and then when I graduate I will see if there is a need to update to server 2008. Even if at the of the day I decided not to go into the industry I still have a bunch of certs to prove that I am a person who loves to learn.. haha.

I am thinking of not taking the 70-270 and use 70-620 for the client operating exam; as for the elective I wonder if I can use the A+,N+? Since I am 3/4 done with N+ I figure that I would finish that first.

I got one more question, how do I get a hold of these "Virtual machines" so I can practice on my computer? I use a macbook pro. It would be really awesome if I could install a couple of virtual machines on vmware and fire them up and practice doing remote desktop and whatever. Thank for all the help!!

Ginger

Download the 180 day trials of the software from the Microsoft site...

Windows Server 2003

Windows Vista VHD trial

Create a new virtual machine using VMWare and install the software as required. With a preconfigured one you can import it into VMWare I think.

Fairly easy after that...

As for the CompTIA exams you would need A+ and N+ or Server+. Or just the Security+

Thats a 2 exam requirement which is possibly more costly than a single MCP exam.

Microsoft Certified Systems Administrator (MCSA)
To receive an elective credit toward the MCSA certification, candidates must earn the CompTIA A+ credential and either the CompTIA Network+ credential or the CompTIA Server+ credential. Alternatively, candidates can earn the CompTIA Security+ credential.

jokkon

thank you very much for the links. Yeah I since I have so little experience in networking I think I will stick with the N+ first. Should have done more research before asking all these questions but you guys are awesome, I will surely tell my friends how great this forums is !!

Ginger

Everyone has to start somewhere and thats part of the whole process..

Just knowing what to ask and where can be enough to get you started.

Best of luck and let us know how you get on

0ubliette

jokkon wrote: »

thank you very much for the links. Yeah I since I have so little experience in networking I think I will stick with the N+ first. Should have done more research before asking all these questions but you guys are awesome, I will surely tell my friends how great this forums is !!

The N+ is a good start, id say its how most people start tbh. That and the A+. Then after working for a while in IT you can move on to bigger and better things. I got my A & N+ in 2004 and only now am looking to get better certs! :eek:

irishgeo

thinking of doing the MCSA course as well.

i am just wondering is there any good cheap e-learning sites on the net to the course in the evenings at my own pace. have lots of knowledge of XP and have vista on another PC and virtua machines so , just need the certification.

i think ill follow the path mentioned above.

Ginger

The Vista MCTS is a very basic exam. If you have installed an configured Vista in any way you should pass through the exam quite easily.

The exam matrix for it is here

You could use the MSDN Virtual Labs for training if you wanted, I am not sure on the cost for this though. You will not need all of them as some are geared at devs rather than techs. Being honest I dont know if they are of any use for the exam in question.

You could also try using the Safari Online Library which I know is quite popular and there a decent amount of certification books available including the MS Press Vista Client training book.

The XP is a wee bit harder for some reason. Dont know why that is.

Best thing for you to do at the moment is to get a practice exam from MeasureUp for the 70-620 exam and see how well you fare on it. If you score above 90% do another test and take the average. Still scoring above 90% you should probably schedule the exam.

If you are working for an MS Partner you can get free MeasureUp exams as well.

There is also a free Exam cram session online.

Also check out the question types if this is your first MS exam.

Best of luck on it

NullZer0

Thanks!


So that means 70-620 will also give you MCTS along the way?
Thats 70-270 for Client = MCP
70-620 for elective = MCTS
add 290 and 291 for MCSA and continue to MCSE?

Ginger

If you take the MCSA with the Vista elective you will earn three certifications from 4 exams

MCP, MCTS & MCSA .. you can then go on and complete the other 3 exams for MCSE if you wish..

NullZer0

Thanks

jokkon

Hi there,

Just passed my Network+ today! I only scored 607/900 on the exam.. so close. But I am happy nonetheless. I probably need more practice on networking =D. Onto 70-620 now, hopefully I can get my MCSA before September.

Jewelsster

There's also the Grad Dip in IT - the conversion course run by DCU - it's one year full time and two years part time and if you do well in that you can go on to do the part-time research Masters in IT so you could have a Masters in 2/3 years.

There's more info on www.dcu.ie/computing - there's also a professional entry level as I don't know which one you qualify for - if you have a degree that is...

Best of luck!

NullZer0

jokkon wrote: »

Hi there,

Just passed my Network+ today! I only scored 607/900 on the exam.. so close. But I am happy nonetheless. I probably need more practice on networking =D. Onto 70-620 now, hopefully I can get my MCSA before September.

Congrats... the 70-620 looks to be a breeze.

Ginger

I will put together a Vista exam thingy later when I get a chance

jokkon

iRock wrote: »

Congrats... the 70-620 looks to be a breeze.

thanks this is going to be my first microsoft exam, =D so nervous

jokkon

I got a question; do you get a certificate for each of those exams? Like MCP for 70-270, mcp for 70-290..blah blah. wow thats a lot of certificates if one go for the mcse

Ginger

You will get a total of 3 welcome kits (certs). You will get one for your first exam that is an MCP exam (eg 70-270.70-290 or 70-291), you will get one for the MCTS and then you will get a final one for the MCSA.

The MCTS welcome kit consists of 2 parts (the first time you get it!), the initial welcome kit with the card and a standard MCTS cert, you will also get a MCTS Vista cert.

The MCP welcome kit is the MCP card with your current certs, and an MCP certificate (they used to come with a magnetic pin badge but this was disconttinued)

The MCSA welcome kit is similar to the MCP kit, except the card will list MCP, MCTS and MCSA on it because it is an old style card.

Static M.e.

While on the subject anyone think the new cards are ugly? I prefered the old blue ones

Ginger

I was lucky enough to do an older exam after getting all my other certs fo my MCP card lists them all.. the new ones for the dev track anyways are green and blue and a bit nicer than the mcitp ones

jokkon

ic, so after you took one mcts or mcp exams you will only get the welcome kit for them and you won't get anything for any subsequent mcp and mcts that you pass?

Ginger

If you get a new MCTS you dont get another card just a new cert .. like a streamlined welcome kit

So say you do the following

Say if you do 2 MCTS exams, 3 MCP exams which makes 1 MCP, 1 MCSA, 2 MCTS certs with 3 cards, 4 certs

Make sense???

pclancy

This seems a pretty easy way to get the MCSA, It never occoured to me to do the xp AND vista client exams....I'm halfway through studying for the vista one and it does seem pretty handy.