Insurance company wont cover a remap??!

ching9000

I recently decided to go for a remap on my 130PD Toledo so I reckoned I'd do the honest thing and inquire with my insurance company as to how this will affect my premium.

However they tell me that they wont cover me at all!! No modifications whatsoever. I'm slightly surprised at this the new power would be ~170bhp and they'd have no quams in insuring me an a 200bhp car...

I then rang a few other companies and they're all the same except Quinn who wanted to organise for a engineer to take a look...and figure out its real power I guess.

Does this mean that everyone who has a chipped/mapping car is un-insuranced????

bbam

Would it be that a 200bhp car would have the relavent safety equ... upgraded brakes, tyres, suspension and maybe traction control??

Maybe the extra bhp on a regular setup would be more dangerous?

At least you asked... will you get it done anyway ??

Anan1

My guess is that it has more to do with claims experience with remapped cars than the actual BHP figure. Although you have to wonder why they don't load aftermarket spoilers!

bbam

Anan1 wrote: »

Although you have to wonder why they don't load aftermarket spoilers!

If nothing else they should be loaded because they look gank!:p

Vertakill

I think it's more that the insurance company hasn't got a clue what they're talking about. Same kind of bs that was attached to insuring jap imports etc.

An extra 40bhp is not going to make a Toledo unsafe, period.

If it were me, I wouldn't have called my insurance company using my policy as the reference to ask them if it was ok. Reason being, you never know if they'll earmark your policy explaining that you've inquired about this. However, if your car gets totaled, do you really think they're going to be able to tell what fuel/air ratios etc, that is involved in a remap, that your car is running? I think not.

I would've rang them up using fake details (except cars details of course) and asked them about the remap.

Anyways, I'd go ahead with it regardless. Hey, I'd do it now more than ever just to spite the insurance company's ignorance. This isn't like having a turbo starlet and insuring it as a standard, because that's glaringly obvious so don't worry about it. However, I'd sleep better after I'd gotten it remapped knowing that I haven't given them a heads up on what you were planning!! :rolleyes:

rebel.ranter

I'd say it's more to do with the qouting system they have, nothing comes up for re-mapped cars. You'd probably have to go to a specialist insurance broker for that.

Beta Ray Bill

Unfortunately we live in Ireland

Possibly the worst place in the Solar System to own a car

You're gonna get that kinda stupidity from all the insurance companies here.
You cant do anything to your to make it more fun to drive in this country without something stupid getting in your way

EG:
VRT
Tax
Insurance
NCT
Stupid Garda
Scumbags
Little Boy/Girl Racers
etc
etc
etc

The list goes on and on!

If I were you Id get it done anyway.

Its stupid the rules apply to modifications of any kind. BHP increase well ok... fair enough but the likes of suspension upgrades, Better Brakes which will actually make the car handle better and stop faster IE Safer (technically speaking) will also raise your premium!!!!

Its Outrageous!

-Chris-

Go to some specialist insurers or see if you can't get the engineers report that was required. I don't think flat-out refusing to insure people is a reasonable response from the insurance companies.

On the other hand, for God's sake DON'T get it done and "forget" to tell them about it. Driving uninsured is as big a plight to this country as drink driving, and should be viewed in the same light.

Guy:Incognito

grahambo wrote: »

Unfortunately we live in Ireland

Possibly the worst place in the Solar System to own a car

You're gonna get that kinda stupidity from all the insurance companies here.
You cant do anything to your to make it more fun to drive in this country without something stupid getting in your way

EG:
VRT
Tax
Insurance
NCT
Stupid Garda
Scumbags
Little Boy/Girl Racers
etc
etc
etc
!

Outside of VRT all other developed countries have everything in the above list aswell. ( a few have vrt as well). I dont see how any ruin your "fun" anyway, especially insurance which is a great help to any others when your fun gets out of hand.

grahambo wrote: »

Better Brakes which will actually make the car handle better and stop faster IE Safer (technically speaking) will also raise your premium!!!!

Its Outrageous!

It also encourages you to drive faster.

skibum

I'm with Hibernia and have a 1.9tdi Golf with a tuning box that bumps it from 90bhp to 115bhp. I notified them and was told that it would make no difference to my premium.

Climate Expert

Thats what you get for trying to do things by the book.

Keep it under your hat and in the unlikely scenario that an engineer has to visit your car for some claim make sure to remap it back to its original form.

I wouldn't be expecting 170bhp either.

Possibly the worst place in the Solar System to own a car

Try Cuba.

Beta Ray Bill

Stekelly wrote: »

Outside of VRT all other developed countries have everything in the above list aswell. ( a few have vrt as well). I dont see how any ruin your "fun" anyway, especially insurance which is a great help to any others when your fun gets out of hand.

Hang on a second pal

You don't know me or what my driving is like.

First off, if you are under 25 insurance is ridiculous I'm 24 with 4 years no claims. and my insurance is €2280, and thats with a €500 excess. Compare that to other european countries and you'll be in for a nasty suprise.
Second, Green tax is going to ruin driving in Ireland, top end sports cars will now be €2000 a year to tax.
Third, There have been more little knackers eyeballing my car than Ive had hot dinners although I do accept this is common in all countries.
Fourth, Stupid Garda... Car passed NCT last week no probs. Garda stops me THE DAY AFTER and tells me my exhaust is Illegal. (He thought it was Decat) I explained and explained but did he listen? NO. Exhaust isn't even Loud! (And not Decat)
And while we're on the NCT topic I had a clio a few years back that passed the NCT.... with the front left wheel next o breaking off and it passed? WTF I could have been killed! (Only found this out after the NCT)

Stekelly wrote: »

It also encourages you to drive faster.

And lastly people with your attitude...

'because they drive a fast car, they drive dangerously'

Do you not think that's wrong?
Yes I accept that there are people out that that have 'sports cars' (if you could even call them that) and drive recklessly, those of us who have decent sports cars look after them and wouldn't run the risk of totaling them on a public roads.
It's wrong of you to slate us all like that.

Although I do understand why you think like that with all the LBR's and LGR's there are around. Genuine people like me are paying for their recklessness.

Beta Ray Bill

Climate Expert wrote: »

Try Cuba.

If you like classic cars its the place to go

(or if you like Lada's) :cool:

-Chris-

grahambo wrote: »

If I were you Id get it done anyway.

I understood from this comment that you supported the OP getting the mod done to his car despite the fact that their insurer won't cover them once it's done.

grahambo wrote: »

Although I do understand why you think like that with all the LBR's and LGR's there are around. Genuine people like me are paying for their recklessness.

Yet here you're complaining that your insurance is higher because of wreckless, irresponsible drivers.


Did I read that wrong?

Eoin

grahambo wrote: »

First off, if you are under 25 insurance is ridiculous I'm 24 with 4 years no claims. and my insurance is €2280, and thats with a €500 excess. Compare that to other european countries and you'll be in for a nasty suprise.

How big is the engine in your car? Would your insurance be lower with a smaller engine?

I'm sure that a lot of us could easily trump what you are paying with what we had to pay a few years ago, and for a smaller car too. Believe me, it's an awful lot cheaper for young males than it used to be.

grahambo wrote: »

And lastly people with your attitude...

'because they drive a fast car, they drive dangerously'

Do you not think that's wrong?
Yes I accept that there are people out that that have 'sports cars' (if you could even call them that) and drive recklessly, those of us who have decent sports cars look after them and wouldn't run the risk of totaling them on a public roads.
It's wrong of you to slate us all like that.

How else on earth should they work out premiums then? Start everyone out at a low premium, unless they crash? Sounds good until you get a load of 17 year old kids in cars that are way too quick for them and cause havoc.

cyclopath2001

Climate Expert wrote: »

Keep it under your hat and in the unlikely scenario that an engineer has to visit your car for some claim make sure to remap it back to its original form.

I don't think that's good advice. While I don't wish this on the OP, it could happen that he could be involved in an accident and not be in a position to change the settings back (car inaccessible for example). If the insurance company were then to discover the modification, they could void the insurance because the change was not disclosed.

Beta Ray Bill

AudiChris wrote: »

I understood from this comment that you supported the OP getting the mod done to his car despite the fact that their insurer won't cover them once it's done.

Yet here you're complaining that your insurance is higher because of wreckless, irresponsible drivers.

Did I read that wrong?

I'd get it done and change insurance companies. (if it was worth it, I wouldn't risk running my car insured)

OP was talking about 30bhp gain, realistically maybe 5-10bhp... which is practically nothing. You'd almost get more BHP putting OCT99 in you're car.

I wouldn't bother for that amount.

Beta Ray Bill

eoin_s wrote: »

How big is the engine in your car? Would your insurance be lower with a smaller engine?

I'm sure that a lot of us could easily trump what you are paying with what we had to pay a few years ago, and for a smaller car too. Believe me, it's an awful lot cheaper for young males than it used to be.

I Drive and Evo 5... but only on the weekend. I accept insurance was higher back then but were you paying that amount with 4 years NCB?

eoin_s wrote: »

How else on earth should they work out premiums then? Start everyone out at a low premium, unless they crash? Sounds good until you get a load of 17 year old kids in cars that are way too quick for them and cause havoc.

To be honest I don't know... All I know is that my insurance is stupidly high for a car I don't drive much. 2k is to much for someone with 4yrs NCB.

the same car in the UK to insure is around £6-800 which is alot better.

Eoin

grahambo wrote: »

I Drive and Evo 5... but only on the weekend. I accept insurance was higher back then but were you paying that amount with 4 years NCB?


To be honest I don't know... All I know is that my insurance is stupidly high for a car I don't drive much. 2k is to much for someone with 4yrs NCB.

the same car in the UK to insure is around £6-800 which is alot better.

You drive a Mitsubishi Evo? Of course you're going to get loaded. Yes, the UK is cheaper, but the UK insurance market is far bigger. Sorry, but I have zero sympathy. You have chosen to buy a sports car, and a relatively high premium is part of the deal.

Guy:Incognito

grahambo wrote: »

Hang on a second pal

You don't know me or what my driving is like.

Why do I need to? You used insurance as a reason why "the man" is ruining your fun. All I did was point oit why it's nessecary.

grahambo wrote: »

First off, if you are under 25 insurance is ridiculous I'm 24 with 4 years no claims. and my insurance is €2280, and thats with a €500 excess. Compare that to other european countries and you'll be in for a nasty suprise..

Do you just accept your renewal letter and go with it? 3 years ago at 24 I was paying €900 ish on a 2 litre car with 2 years NCB.The following year I was driving a 2.5 with a slight drop in premium.

The uk pay just as much or more for young drivers.

grahambo wrote: »

Second, Green tax is going to ruin driving in Ireland, top end sports cars will now be €2000 a year to tax...

Up a huge €500 from the current €1500. I cant imagine anyone who car afford a top end sports car being put off by an extra €500.

grahambo wrote: »

Third, There have been more little knackers eyeballing my car than Ive had hot dinners although I do accept this is common in all countries.

As you say, same everywhere.

grahambo wrote: »

Fourth, Stupid Garda... Car passed NCT last week no probs. Garda stops me THE DAY AFTER and tells me my exhaust is Illegal. (He thought it was Decat) I explained and explained but did he listen? NO. Exhaust isn't even Loud! (And not Decat).

I seriously doubt we have a monopoly on stupid/ignorent/uninformed people.

grahambo wrote: »

And while we're on the NCT topic I had a clio a few years back that passed the NCT.... with the front left wheel next o breaking off and it passed? WTF I could have been killed! (Only found this out after the NCT)).

Fallible testing systems? Well I never.

The wheel tests (suspension etc) are measured by the computers so it obviously was within the limits of what is considered ok.

grahambo wrote: »

And lastly people with your attitude...

'because they drive a fast car, they drive dangerously'

Do you not think that's wrong?
Yes I accept that there are people out that that have 'sports cars' (if you could even call them that) and drive recklessly, those of us who have decent sports cars look after them and wouldn't run the risk of totaling them on a public roads.
It's wrong of you to slate us all like that.

Although I do understand why you think like that with all the LBR's and LGR's there are around. Genuine people like me are paying for their recklessness.

Your attitude towards things and human nature in general would suggest if people think they are safer they will push things.

groupb

Grahambo , Knackers have been eyeballing your car because ........ they (or lookalikes) are generally driven by knackers.
BTW OP why do you need to remap a 130bhp hatchback? Would it be to make it quicker by any chance?

Beta Ray Bill

Stekelly wrote: »

Do you just accept your renewal letter and go with it? 3 years ago at 24 I was paying €900 ish on a 2 litre car with 2 years NCB.The following year I was driving a 2.5 with a slight drop in premium.

The uk pay just as much or more for young drivers.

Wrong, guys on MLR around my age on Evo 7-8 get insured for approx £800
around £600 for 5 or 6

I rang Loads of companies and brokers 2.2k was the absolute best I could get.

Stekelly wrote: »

Up a huge €500 from the current €1500. I cant imagine anyone who car afford a top end sports car being put off by an extra €500.

Also Wrong
An Evo has a 2.0L Turbo charged engine. tax is E537.00 a year so thats up E1463.00
And for the record I am not rich. Thats car is 10 year old. cost me E12,950. if I was rich I would have forked out 35k for an Evo 9

Stekelly wrote: »

Fallible testing systems? Well I never.

The wheel tests (suspension etc) are measured by the computers so it obviously was within the limits of what is considered ok.

You are actually defending a system where you can fail if your windscreen washer fluid is not full, but pass if there is a potentially lethal fault with the car which was pretty noticeable because when the car was moving it was a VERY Audible sound. I didnt know what was wrong and was expecting the car to fail when it passed I was flabbergasted. I brought it to a mechanic straight away. he said driving another couple of months and the wheel would have broken off.

groupb wrote: »

Grahambo , Knackers have been eyeballing your car because ........ they (or lookalikes) are generally driven by knackers.
BTW OP why do you need to remap a 130bhp hatchback? Would it be to make it quicker by any chance?

Thank you for your insult.
Again same attitude slating everyone regardless

eoin_s wrote: »

You drive a Mitsubishi Evo? Of course you're going to get loaded. Yes, the UK is cheaper, but the UK insurance market is far bigger. Sorry, but I have zero sympathy. You have chosen to buy a sports car, and a relatively high premium is part of the deal.

Eoin, I really think that is a bad attitude man, Thats the Problem with Irish people we all just accept things... no one will stand up and do something about it. of course the insurance on that car is expensive but there is no reason for it to be that expensive.

Insurance is high in general last year I had to pay 930 for insurane on an 02 mondeo!!!! C'mon like! thats ridiculous.

Its things like the above that really make me want to pack up on leave Ireland forever. The only thing that is keeping me here is the good training I'm getting in my Job, but I really cant see myself staying here after I'm 28. The systems in place in Ireland are a Joke. It favor's the rich at the expense of the poor.
I know thats off topic and I apologize for that but I really feel there is nothing for anyone in this country especially motorists who are getting SHAFTED!

Eoin

grahambo wrote: »

Eoin, I really think that is a bad attitude man, Thats the Problem with Irish people we all just accept things... no one will stand up and do something about it. of course the insurance on that car is expensive but there is no reason for it to be that expensive.

The reasons are that it is a very powerful car, and that you are in a demographic that is (allegedly) the most expensive to insure. It's as simple as that. You have just said that your insurance would be less than 50% if you had a mondeo instead.

Guy:Incognito

grahambo wrote: »

Also Wrong
An Evo has a 2.0L Turbo charged engine. tax is E537.00 a year so thats up E1463.00
And for the record I am not rich. Thats car is 10 year old. cost me E12,950. if I was rich I would have forked out 35k for an Evo 9

Well unless you're buying a new one the increase in tax bands doesnt effect you and if your rich it effects you even less when you do buy your new one.

Beta Ray Bill

eoin_s wrote: »

The reasons are that it is a very powerful car, and that you are in a demographic that is (allegedly) the most expensive to insure. It's as simple as that. You have just said that your insurance would be less than 50% if you had a mondeo instead.

Again I said the System is a joke... explain to me why a powerful car means I have to pay more insurance?

Why am I more at risk of being in an accident driving a powerful car as opposed to a 1.0L Micra? Do I suddenly get a 6th sense when i get into a more micra that makes me a better driver?

Example: 2 drivers, same age same sex, same driving experience. both have 4 years without a claim, no penalty points or convictions of any kind. why has the 1 that drives the more powerful car (Evo) got to pay 10 times the amount the person that drives the less powerful car (Micra) when they both have the exact same record regarding their driving ability. and the fact that the evo is probably a safer car, due to better brakes, handling, 4WD etc.

It makes no sense when you think about it.

-Chris-

grahambo wrote: »

Again I said the System is a joke... explain to me why a powerful car means I have to pay more insurance?

More powerful car means more likelyhood of the car getting into a BIG accident.

In the hands of a talented driver, the Evo's a safer car because it'll be within it's limits more of the time, but I'd venture to say that not everyone who can afford one is talented enough to deserve one.

grahambo wrote: »

Why am I more at risk of being in an accident driving a powerful car as opposed to a 1.0L Micra? Do I suddenly get a 6th sense when i get into a more micra that makes me a better driver?

More powerful = more speed = more temptation to go fast in the hands of a driving enthusiast.

Same guy in a Micra just can't get himself in the same amount of trouble if he gets over-excited.

grahambo wrote: »

Example: 2 drivers, same age same sex, same driving experience. both have 4 years without a claim, no penalty points or convictions of any kind. why has the 1 that drives the more powerful car (Evo) got to pay 10 times the amount the person that drives the less powerful car (Micra) when they both have the exact same record regarding their driving ability. and the fact that the evo is probably a safer car, due to better brakes, handling, 4WD etc.

It makes no sense when you think about it.

It makes absolute sense. The kind of person who buys an Evo is FAAAAR more likely to enjoy driving fast and pushing the limits of their car than someone who prefers to drive a Micra.

So you load the Evo buyer....

Beta Ray Bill

AudiChris wrote: »

It makes absolute sense. The kind of person who buys an Evo is FAAAAR more likely to enjoy driving fast and pushing the limits of their car than someone who prefers to drive a Micra.

So you load the Evo buyer....

I don't think thats right. people will drive fast if they want to drive fast. it doesn't matter what car you are in. I've often seen VW Golfs (with the 1.6 badge taken off and a GTI badge stuck on) and that whole genre of car, doing way over the speed limit on the likes of the Raheny road, Hole in the Wall Road etc etc (basically anywhere straight)

they are not powerful cars but the people driving them like to drive fast. I don't break the speed limit. Just because a car is not powerful doesn't mean it cant go fast. it just means they can't accelerate fast.

Its a ridiculous system.
People should be graded based on their driving ability and experience and not what they drive.

Henry Ford III

Chances of theft and cost of repairs in an accident will increase too.

Chris is right though. If you have a quicker faster car you'll tend to drive quicker. Otheriwse why would you have bought it, and paid higher ins. fuel and other costs in the 1st place?

-Chris-

grahambo wrote: »

Its a ridiculous system.
People should be graded based on their driving ability and experience and not what they drive.

It's an imperfect system....

I think you're absolutely right, people should be graded based on ability & experience, but the insurance companies will tell you that it's unfeasible to know your customers in that level of detail (well, they could hire a rake of testers, but that would push premiums up).

The easier, one-size-fits-all way of doing it is by profiling.
And just as airport security are more likely to strip search a swarthy guy in a leather jacket who's glancing around shiftily than they are to give the same level of attention to a pregnant woman with 2 kids in tow - profiling will tell them that someone who's prepared to pay for an Evo, for the running of an Evo and for insuring their Evo really wants a quick car, no matter what the cost. Odds are they're not going to drive like a granny in that rally-bred, fire-breathing, four wheel drive saloon.

Maybe loading that driver is opportunism, maybe it's good business sense. I know if I worked in insurance, I'd be loading them too!

Vertakill

AudiChris wrote: »

It makes absolute sense. The kind of person who buys an Evo is FAAAAR more likely to enjoy driving fast and pushing the limits of their car than someone who prefers to drive a Micra.

So you load the Evo buyer....

Wow what a sweeping comment that was!
I know that I am faaaar more cautious AND competent in my (sports) car than some 60 year old grandad in his crapped out micra who was no doubt given his license without having to pass a test.
I'd love to see statistics of road crashes, where we could see a percentage of crashes from sports cars and normal cars.

Honestly, I could count the amount of times I've heard of say, an Evo/M3/Porsche/Imprezza etc crash.

Whereas you usually see retards crashing into eachother going 20mph in traffic on the M50 in run of the mill cars because they're just ridiculously complacent in their boring Passat or Avensis. These are also the same people that think their cars are an extension of their office/hairdressers who are always on the phone/doing their makeup.

Don't get me wrong, I think they should load youngfellas Civics and also monitor what mods they're doing to their cars and if they don't declare what they've done their insurance should be voided. But kicking up a fuss over the OP's Toledo getting a marginal bhp increase is typical Irish insurance company bs that they keep pulling.

I'm saying this as a 22 year old who got shafted with 3800 insurance on a ****ty 1.3 Colt when I was 19 so I'm naturally disgruntled about the whole thing. Thankfully those times are behind me and I'm now driving a car that I wanted, rather than a car that I had to get purely because I couldn't get insurance.


- Edit: Oh, I'm not defending some youngfella buying some crashed 1996 Evo/Imprezza and going around terrorising the neighborhood either. I'm talking about brandishing young people driving new'ish powerful cars that have cost them an arm and a leg, with a full clean license, and then shafting them with insurance.

Mc-BigE

AudiChris wrote: »

It's an imperfect system....

I think you're absolutely right, people should be graded based on ability & experience, but the insurance companies will tell you that it's unfeasible to know your customers in that level of detail (well, they could hire a rake of testers, but that would push premiums up).

The easier, one-size-fits-all way of doing it is by profiling.
And just as airport security are more likely to strip search a swarthy guy in a leather jacket who's glancing around shiftily than they are to give the same level of attention to a pregnant woman with 2 kids in tow - profiling will tell them that someone who's prepared to pay for an Evo, for the running of an Evo and for insuring their Evo really wants a quick car, no matter what the cost. Odds are they're not going to drive like a granny in that rally-bred, fire-breathing, four wheel drive saloon.

Maybe loading that driver is opportunism, maybe it's good business sense. I know if I worked in insurance, I'd be loading them too!

Finally a sensible thread!

I used to drive a Audi S4 (the older one) now im older than the person with the Evo, but i didn't buy it for the fuel economy, i bought it for the BHP, Road holding and speed. i was paying 1600euro fully comp.(full NCB) in 2005 for insurance, 1000 road tax and about 60euro every 5 days on petrol if i drove it slow (when petrol was 1.00/litre! approx).

i finally decided to sell it after 1 year because of the above.

OP, if you want to go faster, i would buy a fast factory car (plenty of them in the 2nd hand market now) but i do think that insurance co's should quote for mods, an you should pay extra for certified tune ups.

person with the EVO. Stop Complaining, sell your Evo and buy something with cheaper insurance.