Benoit: 1 Year On

rovert

Fozzy wrote: »

Is it the thing about Benoit spiking Jericho's drink with GHB?

Im not sure BarneyisRight is referring that now.

Minto

Fozzy wrote: »

Is it the thing about Benoit spiking Jericho's drink with GHB?

WTF? When did he do this? Benoit is a bigger piece of sh*t if this is true!

rovert

Minto wrote: »

WTF? When did he do this? Benoit is a bigger piece of sh*t if this is true!

Get of your high horse, hundreds of wrestlers are then.

flahavaj

Exactly, morally outraged wrestling fans who line Vince MacMahons and other scummy promoters' pockets make me laugh. The irony.

Fozzy

Minto wrote: »

WTF? When did he do this? Benoit is a bigger piece of sh*t if this is true!

Just before Jericho was going out to accept a trophy in the ring in Japan I think. I haven't read the book, I think that one's in it. But yeah, many wrestlers were using the stuff, it'd be like your mate swapping your water with vodka before you had to give a speech in front of your class or something. You'd find it funny and get them back, but you wouldn't be outraged at it. At least I think that's a fair comparison

rovert

flahavaj wrote: »

Exactly, morally outraged wrestling fans who line Vince MacMahons and other scummy promoters' pockets make me laugh. The irony.

GHB was the 1990's version of cocaine and THE party drug of choice for wrestlers. Everyone used it from HBK to Regal to Paul Heyman. Not to mention those bold wrestlers used for it's actual medical purpose burning fat in bodybuilding. It was a supplement to

STERIODS! yeah I know :eek:

Terry

http://origin.www.cbc.ca/fifth/fighttothedeath/

Link to video on the right of the page.
I haven't watched it yet, but it looks interesting.

rovert

Terry wrote: »

http://origin.www.cbc.ca/fifth/fighttothedeath/

Link to video on the right of the page.
I haven't watched it yet, but it looks interesting.

It is, it is the defintive piece of on the murders. Really worth watching.

ShooterSF

Ok I've read as much as I can on the topic (about 5 pages). I know everyone deals with the situation differently but here's my take.

During my mid-teen years I was stilled obsessed with wrestling and got the ridiculing for it Benoit was easily my favourite wrestler having (at the time) only followed the WWE(F) when he was in the Radicalz. I remember jumping round the room as a complete mark when I thought he'd beaten the Rock at Fully Loaded (and hated Folley for ages after!)
The Character and (of what I could read about) the man epitomised everything I held belief in. Honesty, Hard Work, Letting your actions speak for you(I know that's a bad one now...). I looked up to the man himself as someone who lacked size and charisma but sacraficed everything to make up for it.
When I got older and started working out I kept a photo from Raw magazine of him lifting weights on my wall (along with enough fit chicks to keep my straight levels up) to keep me motivated. I cried with delight for the guy when he won the title as you could see at that moment the relief on his face, the brief moment where he could enjoy the fruits of his work and forget about the constant (self made) pressure on himself, even just temporarily.

When the news broke last year I actually went numb, and still do thinking of it. I'd idolized a murderer. I guess that's where I draw my belief on the subject, as someone who needs to belief in what I believe to stay sane.
Around the same time I lost a family member to suicide and (without making this too dark) the only way I got through was to belief that some people can't always be judged on their final actions, that if they were given the chance to be with us again they'd regret what they did.
The sum of a man is not his final actions.
It's so hard to figure out though. Had he been diagnosed before hand as insane and treated we wouldn't have the same hatred towards the guy. Had he murdered his family and not himself I coule more easily condemn him as a cold blooded murder.
I can seperate in my head the man Benoit was (of what I knew of) , the wrestler and the man he became.

The way I see it people's reactions are of the following (and I could be wrong I'm just trying to rational the situation)

People who believe murder is murder and can accept no argument
People who admired the guy and felt so betrayed by his final actions that writing him off is easier than dealing with mixed emotions. (I think alot of wrestlers who knew him fall under this category)
People who do try and deal with their emotions on the subject and either find they can or can't get past his final actions.

rovert

Suicide and murder suicide are two totally different things

rovert

The Hall of Fame Issue of The Observer has just been posted,

Benoit will remain in the Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame forever:

SHOULD CHRIS BENOIT REMAIN IN THE HALL OF FAME?
Yes 111 votes 46.4%
No 128 votes 53.6%

He needed 60%to get voted out, so it was close.

CMpunked

why is this a spoiler?

rovert

Comic-Book-Guy wrote: »

why is this a spoiler?

As people dont like this issue being spoiled, simple as. Im going by the charter, if in doubt etc.

CMpunked

rovert wrote: »

As people dont like this issue being spoiled, simple as. Im going by the charter, if in doubt etc.

Yeah, your right there.

Fair play

Handsome Bob

rovert wrote: »

The Hall of Fame Issue of The Observer has just been posted,

Benoit will remain in the Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame forever:

He needed 60%to get voted out, so it was close.

Was this a high profile thread rovert? I mean did the Observer make the poll a priority on their website? I am very intruiged by these results man....

Fozzy

The Observer Hall of Fame is voted on by former wrestlers, current wrestlers, former promoters, current promoters, other important people involved with wrestling, prominent wrestling journalists and other knowledgeable wrestling historians, from all over the world

I think that about covers it. So it's not just a public vote

Handsome Bob

Fozzy wrote: »

The Observer Hall of Fame is voted on by former wrestlers, current wrestlers, former promoters, current promoters, other important people involved with wrestling, prominent wrestling journalists and other knowledgeable wrestling historians, from all over the world

I think that about covers it. So it's not just a public vote

So can we say that this decision was put in the hands of people that one can only assume knew Benoit and were very knowledgable of what exactly happened?

It's such a tight decision, I really don't know what to make of it.

flahavaj

I'm glad he was left in. He was the greatest wrestler (in-ring) of all time IMHO.

EdK

Fozzy wrote: »

Is it the thing about Benoit spiking Jericho's drink with GHB?

I thought he had said that he experimented with GHB himself and picked a bad time to do it, went out to be part of a ceremony and couldnt stand up barely

I've just finished the book, but admittedly i have the worst memory in the world

EdK

"All of the participants in the J Cup were required to watch the final match from the ringside area, symbolizing how important the last match was. A few minutes before we went to the ring, I decided to try some of the GHB that I had acquired a few days earlier. GHB was a bodybuilding supplement that was created to help you get cut while you slept. But if you took it and stayed awake, it would help you get cut period.
It had the flavor of salty paint thinner and was pretty much the worst thing I had tasted in my life. But it did it's job quickly and I was buzzed by the time I walked through the curtain of the sold-out Sumo Hall toward the ring. I anchored myself to the turnbuckle post across from Benoit and the arena started to spin. Chris was laughing he ass off across from me.

After Liger won, we got into the ring for the final ceremony, I had a befuddled grin on my face; half from appreciating the experience, half from appreciating the GHB. The net week I finally made the cover of Gong magazine with my hair askew and sporting a drug-induced Chesire cat grin. Another goal accomplished"

Chris Jericho "A Lion's Tale"

Fozzy

I must have remembered what I heard wrong, it was probably something about Benoit laughing at him

EdK

Benoit did stitch him up with the other wrestlers in the locker room for puking on the floor thogh

rovert

That is very low on the totem poll of ribs, Im sure Jericho pulled enough on others to redress the balance. The spiking story is irrelevant completely in any of this.

Former wrestlers were the group of voters who helped keep him in the most. While Reporters were the group of voters least in favour of putting him. Draw your own conclusions.

D-FENS

rovert wrote: »

Former wrestlers were the group of voters who helped keep him in the most. While Reporters were the group of voters least in favour of putting him. Draw your own conclusions.

Thanks, I will, I’d rather go with the reporters. I appreciate the fact that a lot of his peers who knew and loved him what to remember the good things he did, but Hall of Fames / awards etc. are just as much for the fans, and as a fan, I don’t want to be reminded of this guy, the wrestlerS can honour him privately if it means that much to him.
I don't know or even care anymore how or why he did what he did, I'm a father of two myself and I only know you'd have to be really mentally ill or plain evil, I just know I watch wrestling to be entertained, not to be reminded of grisly, horrible sh*t like this. No one can deny his skill in his day, but you give up things like being honoured for the good things you did in life when you do really bad things like this, whatever the reason. Ted Bundy did some work for the Samaritans before his killing spree, and John Wayne Gacy used to dress up as a clown at kids parties, both probably brought some happiness to people lives before destroying others’ but no-one ever praised them for it, so Benoit shouldn’t be praised for the good things he did, no matter how entertaining. And before anyone says these guys were more bad than mad where as Benoit was vice versa, yeah, possibly, but in all cases people are f*cking dead because of them, so they should all be left where they are in the ground and just move on.
Just my opinion of course.

grames_bond

D-FENS wrote: »

as a fan, I don’t want to be reminded of this guy, the wrestlerS can honour him privately if it means that much to him.
I just know I watch wrestling to be entertained, not to be reminded of grisly, horrible sh*t like this.Ted Bundy and John Wayne Gacy both probably brought some happiness to people lives before destroying others’ but no-one ever praised them for it, so Benoit shouldn’t be praised for the good things he did,.

i 100% back up this statement, i think you are spot on with every word you said....i dont care or want tohear how technically skillful he was, or how loved he was with fellow wrestlers, or how it wasnt him it was the roids....he is a murderer and should be remembered as such!

ShawnRaven

here we go again....
VR!

Spike440

I choose to believe this:

Tests were conducted on Benoit's brain by Julian Bailes, the head of neurosurgery at West Virginia University, and results showed that "Benoit's brain was so severely damaged it resembled the brain of an 85-year-old Alzheimer's patient."Tests conducted on Benoit's brain tissue have revealed he did in fact suffer from severe chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), and had brain damage in all four lobes of the brain and brain stem

The guy who killed his family and himself was not the same guy that everybody loved and respected. I'm glad he stayed in the Hall of Fame.

Dancor

Tests were conducted on Benoit's brain by Julian Bailes, the head of neurosurgery at West Virginia University, and results showed that "Benoit's brain was so severely damaged it resembled the brain of an 85-year-old Alzheimer's patient."Tests conducted on Benoit's brain tissue have revealed he did in fact suffer from severe chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), and had brain damage in all four lobes of the brain and brain stem

Bull****, If Benoit or anybody had the brain of an 85-year-old Alzheimer's patient they would need round the clock care. If he had such damage to the brain he would not be able to perform in a wrestling ring or board a plane or murder his family.

rovert

dancor wrote: »

Bull****, If Benoit or anybody had the brain of an 85-year-old Alzheimer's patient they would need round the clock care. If he had such damage to the brain he would not be able to perform in a wrestling ring or board a plane or murder his family.

Yep, those claims have been disputed by many and Bailes's claim hasn't been backed or peer reviewed.

From earlier in the thread:

Fozzy wrote: »

The thing with the brain damage is that the group who did the testing, the Sports Legacy Institute, haven't made their findings public. So they could be talking crap. Usually when studies like that are done they're released to the public or at least to other doctors. I'd like to know why they haven't released them

There is a degree of bias in those findings in my opinion.

Bubs101

Personally, the fact that Benoit did what he did doesn't really affect me anymore when I watch his matches. He was great in the ring and to just ignore that and his contribution is a little childish

rovert

Bubs101 wrote: »

Personally, the fact that Benoit did what he did doesn't really affect me anymore when I watch his matches. He was great in the ring and to just ignore that and his contribution is a little childish

Childish?

Fozzy

I assume some of you have heard about this guy: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2681029/Arson-attack-millionaire-Christopher-Foster-was-relaxed-hours-before-killings.html

I hear he was a great businessman. That's what I'll be remembering him for

D-FENS

Bubs101 wrote: »

Personally, the fact that Benoit did what he did doesn't really affect me anymore when I watch his matches. He was great in the ring and to just ignore that and his contribution is a little childish

You're right, fancy valuing human life more than great wrestling skill, we really need to grow up :rolleyes:

D-FENS

Fozzy wrote: »

I assume some of you have heard about this guy: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2681029/Arson-attack-millionaire-Christopher-Foster-was-relaxed-hours-before-killings.html

I hear he was a great businessman. That's what I'll be remembering him for

Ah, but his great business dealings were'nt entertaining in anyway Fozzy, so he's just a murdering scumbag

Bubs101

rovert wrote: »

Childish?

Some posters seem to be just erasing and ignoring the fact that he was a great wrestler from their mind because he was a homicidal maniac . It's possible to be both and to not be able to deal with that is a little childish in my opinion

D-FENS wrote: »

You're right, fancy valuing human life more than great wrestling skill, we really need to grow up :rolleyes:

Where did I say I valued his wrestling skill more than his family's life? I think you need to grow up and realise that it's not as if he was a great technichal wrestler before he committed the double murder and wasn't the next day. I don't see how the murder effects his past matches, I can see how it affects people's enjoyment of them but it doesn't affect the matches themselves

rovert

Bubs101 wrote: »

Some posters seem to be just erasing and ignoring the fact that he was a great wrestler from their mind because he was a homicidal maniac . It's possible to be both and to not be able to deal with that is a little childish in my opinion

And these posters are?

ShawnRaven

Bubs101 wrote: »

Where did I say I valued his wrestling skill more than his family's life? I think you need to grow up and realise that it's not as if he was a great technichal wrestler before he committed the double murder and wasn't the next day. I don't see how the murder effects his past matches, I can see how it affects people's enjoyment of them but it doesn't affect the matches themselves

I'm with bubs on this one. Benoit didn't do anything to my family so why should i stop watching his matches? Is he a dirty piece of sh*t fpr his final actions?, yes he is, did he contribute a lot to the business?, yes he did.

People need to get off their moral high horses when it comes to stuff like this, you didn't know the guy, what he did doesn't affect you or your family. It's one thing having an opinion on it, everyone is entitled to it. But going on a holier than thou spiel about how we should just forget everything he's contributed to the business because he went off the rails and murdered his family before suiciding. It was put to the vote, the vote was casted and the results are that he stays. Live with it.

VR!

rovert

validreasoning! wrote: »

I'm with bubs on this one. Benoit didn't do anything to my family so why should i stop watching his matches? Is he a dirty piece of sh*t fpr his final actions?, yes he is, did he contribute a lot to the business?, yes he did.

People need to get off their moral high horses when it comes to stuff like this, you didn't know the guy, what he did doesn't affect you or your family. It's one thing having an opinion on it, everyone is entitled to it. But going on a holier than thou spiel about how we should just forget everything he's contributed to the business because he went off the rails and murdered his family before suiciding. It was put to the vote, the vote was casted and the results are that he stays. Live with it.

VR!

Well you at least put it better than Bubs did. I dont mind people favouring one side or another, it is the lack of respect for the other side's opinion that Bubs had. There is no true right or wrong just two two schools of thought.