2008 WWE draft ***RAW SPOILERS***

ShawnRaven

Vince135792003 wrote: »

There's that argument alright that if Rey is drawing all that merchandise, popping ratings etc... that he doesn't need the belt.

Well that's just it, and i think in a way it worked for Kane, he sold masks, got over as a monster heel, got over as the face you felt sorry for. Same principle really.

The fundamental reason why I loved Hogan (and as a consequence annoyed my mam and dad to buy hogan related stuff) was that he was the number 1 guy when I was a kid. He was the champion.
A primary reason why 99% of the children of Ireland will tell you Cena is their favorite is in my opinion because he was champ for such a long time. And with that came lots of money.

Exactly the reason i'm not a fan of Cena, He's Hogan for the new milennium. He's a big draw for kids, and a pain in the ass for adults (except MNG, the chairman of the Boards.ie Cena fan club ), Long term champions draw in two ways, those who love him will go to see him, those who don't will go to see him eventually drop the belt.

By making Rey the number one guy (for even a moderate period of time) as the super hero that always prevails, it adds something to him that you don't get by just having him in mid card matches and not being champion.

Only thing there is, he was already as over as he could get. The only reason he was given that belt was to keep the hispanics happy because Eddie was due a run, but died mere days beforehand.

Maybe the boat has sailed with him though, given the injuries he's had over the last few years.

Well that's another good point, although we disagreed on this, i still maintain he's carrying too much weight for his height which is causing a lot of knee problems because the weight on top is too much for what his lower body and legs can handle.

VR!

mehfesto2

Vince135792003 wrote: »

There's that argument alright that if Rey is drawing all that merchandise, popping ratings etc... that he doesn't need the belt.

You can look at it another way. By giving him the belt it could propel his popularity even more. My argument for that is simple; kids love winners/champions. The fundamental reason why I loved Hogan (and as a consequence annoyed my mam and dad to buy hogan related stuff) was that he was the number 1 guy when I was a kid. He was the champion.

A primary reason why 99% of the children of Ireland will tell you Cena is their favorite is in my opinion because he was champ for such a long time. And with that came lots of money.

By making Rey the number one guy (for even a moderate period of time) as the super hero that always prevails, it adds something to him that you don't get by just having him in mid card matches and not being champion.

Maybe the boat has sailed with him though, given the injuries he's had over the last few years.

I'd agree with most of that. Kids love the biggest face when they're champion. I went to get my cousin the Mysterio toy and I just couldn't get it in Dublin. Everywhere was sold out. His masks had left the shelves weeks ago and even the mini-figures were thin on the ground. He makes the WWE a considerable amount in revenue, I'd say.

You could argue that if you put Rey on ECW, you could boost their ratings and make him a credible champ there. Would need a suitable heel, not Chavo, though (How he's still wrestling is beyond me). He'd fit into Raw in the lower-mid card or SD in the upper mid-card, I reckon these days. ECW could be his saving grace.

Handsome Bob

validreasoning! wrote: »

A Golden chance Matt never got, now why's that? Matt excelled in his V1 gimmick, sadly that only lasted about 9 months. 9 months of a 6 year solo career is a drop in the ocean. Jeff, on the other hand, no matter how he messes up, has a lot more crowd interest than Matt does, and will get back into the main event picture quicker than Matt will. Jeff has what Matt doesn't have.



It didn't stop him from going ahead with it though did it? And while WWE fed off the issues between Matt and Edge, it made for great TV and great matches between them for that. It should have rocketed both their careers really, and as i said earlier, Edge was able to take it to the next level, Matt can't. Matt has been given his chances and he keeps choking.

VR!

Are you kidding me? Tell me exactly what these "breaks" were? Edge got all the breaks in that feud and eventually was given his title program with Cena. Matt Hardy was shuttled off to SD where he continued this atrocious 'I will not die' losing streak and was sidelined by various injuries. But hey, it's all in the past now and Matt is US Champion. If all goes well and creavite actually put a bit of effort into his feuds instead of lazily branding him as not being a draw Matt could be chasing the WHC in the not too distant future.

Bubs101

I didn't agree with Rey as champ that much but I could see why they did it. As a kid, you normally expect the big man to prevail in every match and Rey must have brought a massive element of surprise to them when he won the title. Personally, I thought the Rumble was more than enough


As for Hardy, for one, he doesn't have the star factor that his brother (Jeff) has and secondly, I don't remember him being massively over with his V1 gimmick. He only had a light Heavyweight Championship reign, after Gillberg had soiled its name. Hardly the big time. Hardy is more over now than then but obviously the most over he ever was was after he cameback from being fired. It wasn't because he was a great wrestler,it wasn't because his gimmick was good, it was because people just felt sorry for him and to an extent they still do

ShawnRaven

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Are you kidding me? Tell me exactly what these "breaks" were? Edge got all the breaks in that feud and eventually was given his title program with Cena. Matt Hardy was shuttled off to SD where he continued this atrocious 'I will not die' losing streak and was sidelined by various injuries. But hey, it's all in the past now and Matt is US Champion. If all goes well and creavite actually put a bit of effort into his feuds instead of lazily branding him as not being a draw Matt could be chasing the WHC in the not too distant future.

Every time he got in a decent midcard feud, he kept getting injured!

Edge is also ten times better a worker than Matt Hardy ever was or ever will be, and there isn't much time difference in their WWE time either. Matt in the WHC title picture? With who, Edge? They won't have Matt kill off Edge. Batista? Undertaker?

VR!

ShawnRaven

Bubs101 wrote: »

Hardy is more over now than then but obviously the most over he ever was was after he cameback from being fired. It wasn't because he was a great wrestler,it wasn't because his gimmick was good, it was because people just felt sorry for him and to an extent they still do

DING DING DING!! WE HAVE A WINNERRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!
VR!

Handsome Bob

validreasoning! wrote: »

Every time he got in a decent midcard feud, he kept getting injured!

Edge is also ten times better a worker than Matt Hardy ever was or ever will be, and there isn't much time difference in their WWE time either. Matt in the WHC title picture? With who, Edge? They won't have Matt kill off Edge. Batista? Undertaker?

VR!

It's pretty cold saying he chokes because he gets injured. No one can prevent injury. Did Steve Austin 'choke' when Owen Hart broke his neck?

I can honestly forsee an SD main event with Ken Kennedy, Randy Orton, Chris Jericho, Edge and Matt Hardy.

I predict in the draft that Batista and the Undertaker will be drafted by other shows.

ShawnRaven

LZ5by5 wrote: »

It's pretty cold saying he chokes because he gets injured. No one can prevent injury. Did Steve Austin 'choke' when Owen Hart broke his neck?

Steve Austin was a midcarder when Owen Hart fu*ked up the piledriver. And Austin was able to work through that injury, an ability Matt Hardy doesn't have. Which is another reason why Austin became a success, and Matt hasn't.

I can honestly forsee an SD main event with Ken Kennedy, Randy Orton, Chris Jericho, Edge and Matt Hardy.

I will be very surprised honestly if they let those 3 go to Smackdown, when there is precious little on SD to take their place on RAW.

I predict in the draft that Batista and the Undertaker will be drafted by other shows.

Batista maybe, but my prediciton says that Taker is going over at ONS and sticking around for a bit. I really hope that's the case in the sense that it's tough watching RAW with Cena on it, having Taker on it will make it a chore for me to watch.

VR!

rovert

LZ5by5 wrote: »

It's pretty cold saying he chokes because he gets injured. No one can prevent injury. Did Steve Austin 'choke' when Owen Hart broke his neck?

There is a pretty big difference here. Matt is injury prone partly because he is malformed.

Brolly

brolly wrote: »

Undertaker - I think he will lose on Sunday night and there will be a few blackouts, lightning strikes and videos etc over the next Month or so. There will be a way back into the WWE again - He will return somehow if he does lose Sunday night. Don't know why I think this - the WWE has been a bit unpredictable lately! Therefore, Undertaker could be a mover on draft night also! (He definately won't be going to ECW though!)

Well, I got the first bit right - lets see what happens over the next few weeks!;)

Handsome Bob

Mick Foley went to great lengths in stressing that if Taker lost he won't be turning up an any other show, he would be gone. I wonder where they are going with this because it seems like they are telling us he won't be part of the draft.

Brolly

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Mick Foley went to great lengths in stressing that if Taker lost he won't be turning up an any other show, he would be gone. I wonder where they are going with this because it seems like they are telling us he won't be part of the draft.

Taker looked quite sad last night as he left - Acting or was that his last match? A lot of websites were reporting yesterday that it was being rumoured backstage that Taker is taking leave for a few months at least. Feck, I hope he is back for Mania next year. I went for the package for next year on basis that it could be his last Mania and with it being in his home-city (I ain't going for the beautiful sights in Houston!).

Vince135792003

'Taker will be back. You don't end his career with a 2 week build on a B brand show.

Brolly

Vince135792003 wrote: »

'Taker will be back. You don't end his career with a 2 week build on a B brand show.

Hopefully, but you never know with the WWE at the present time. I see there is a press conference on Tuesday in LA - wonder if its about the $1m giveaway or other matters?

ShawnRaven

What is the point in having spoiler tags, when they can be shown in someones elses quote the next post later? It doesn't particularly affect me as i watched it live, but i think we might all have to be careful what we're quoting.

VR!

Brolly

validreasoning! wrote: »

What is the point in having spoiler tags, when they can be shown in someones elses quote the next post later? It doesn't particularly affect me as i watched it live, but i think we might all have to be careful what we're quoting.

VR!

It wasn't spoiler tagged when I clicked on quote;)

ShawnRaven

brolly wrote: »

It wasn't spoiler tagged when I clicked on quote;)

Oh don't get me wrong, i'm not saying it was your fault. vbulletin is terrible for that sort of thing. But we'd probably be better off removing the spoiler from the quote when replying to it.

VR!

Bounty Hunter

Some serious talent is going to have to be traded to SD now if Taker is gone and Batista as expected is going to Raw, especially if Shown is going to be going for the ECW title instead of the SD one. Afterall who is really left in the main-event to challenge Edge?

Handsome Bob

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

Some serious talent is going to have to be traded to SD now if Taker is gone and Batista as expected is going to Raw, especially if Shown is going to be going for the ECW title instead of the SD one. Afterall who is really left in the main-event to challenge Edge?

I felt that Orton could have been going to SD but after last night I don't think he'll be doing anything anytime soon...

ShawnRaven

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I felt that Orton could have been going to SD but after last night I don't think he'll be doing anything anytime soon...

The only place Orton is going after last night is the hospital.
Seriously though, what good would sending Orton to SD if theres nobody for him there to feud with?

VR!

Handsome Bob

validreasoning! wrote: »

The only place Orton is going after last night is the hospital.
Seriously though, what good would sending Orton to SD if theres nobody for him there to feud with?

VR!

Matt Hardy, Edge, possibly MVP, possibly Ken Kennedy, possibly Batista, possibly Rey Mysterio.

Brolly

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Mick Foley went to great lengths in stressing that if Taker lost he won't be turning up an any other show, he would be gone. I wonder where they are going with this because it seems like they are telling us he won't be part of the draft.

The WWE are quick! Taker gone from the Superstar list (current) and put on the ulumni list! http://www.wwe.com/superstars/wwealumni/undertaker/bio/

Handsome Bob

I really hope this doesn't end with Vinnie Mac simply "overruling" Vicki. That would be a cop-out.

ShawnRaven

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Matt Hardy, Edge, possibly MVP, possibly Ken Kennedy, possibly Batista, possibly Rey Mysterio.

Matt Hardy: Orton is main event, why would he drop to midcard?

Kennedy: I actually can't see him going to SD either

Batists: Safe bet he's going to RAW

Edge: A heel vs heel feud? I can't see that working out, those two don't gel well together anyway.

Rey Mysterio: You've got to be f*cking kidding me, right? Stick HIM in the feud with Matt Hardy. Would make more sense, Matt being a former cruiserweight champion and Rey being a former cruiserweight (until he ate the mini Boogeyman)

VR!

Handsome Bob

First of all, I meant Matt Hardy as in Matt Hardy eventually progressing to the main event to feud with him. But we have a difference of opinion on that don't we?

Kennedy to SD certainly a possibility. Randy Orton is out, that means whatever the plans were for him in the draft need to be changed. If he was going to SD someone needs to take his place.

Again, Batista could have been earmarked for Raw but with Orton injured he might need to stay on SD.

But it's all hypothetical because Orton is most likely out. Speaking of Orton, what's everyone's opinion about Orton's reaction to the crowd? As far as I'm concerned the crowd were applauding Orton (not booing him) when he told them 'to shut the **** up'. Was this simply staying in 'character' for Orton? Or does anyone think he reacted the wrong way, unable to accept any respect from the fans?

Brolly

LZ5by5 wrote: »

As far as I'm concerned the crowd were applauding Orton (not booing him) when he told them 'to shut the **** up'. Was this simply staying in 'character' for Orton? Or does anyone think he reacted the wrong way, unable to accept any respect from the fans?

I'd say that was Orton pissed off that he got injured and taking it out on the crowd!

Handsome Bob

That's what I'm thinking too. I can understand he was upset but the crowd were cheering him and showing respect! I like Orton the worker but the guy needs to learn a bit of humility, there's no shame in making mistakes.

Vince135792003

I liked how Orton didn't lap it up. Stayed true to his character.

Handsome Bob

Vince135792003 wrote: »

I liked how Orton didn't lap it up. Stayed true to his character.

That of course would be the other plausible explanation, that he stayed in character. But I think it would have been a nice touch to have silently walked up the aisle with his head held high while the crowd applauded..

ShawnRaven

LZ5by5 wrote: »

First of all, I meant Matt Hardy as in Matt Hardy eventually progressing to the main event to feud with him. But we have a difference of opinion on that don't we?

We certainly do, if Matt can't do main event after over six years, what makes you think he has a snowballs chance in hell of getting there in the next year? Of course, you'll blame creative as opposed to anything else.

Kennedy to SD certainly a possibility. Randy Orton is out, that means whatever the plans were for him in the draft need to be changed. If he was going to SD someone needs to take his place.

Kennedy is most certainly a possibility now that Orton is out. However this conversation was about who Orton would face. So that cancels that out.

Again, Batista could have been earmarked for Raw but with Orton injured he might need to stay on SD.

I'll give you that, provided Orton ends up being drafted to SD during injury (like Benoit was drafted to SD during his injury in early 2002)

But it's all hypothetical because Orton is most likely out. Speaking of Orton, what's everyone's opinion about Orton's reaction to the crowd? As far as I'm concerned the crowd were applauding Orton (not booing him) when he told them 'to shut the **** up'. Was this simply staying in 'character' for Orton? Or does anyone think he reacted the wrong way, unable to accept any respect from the fans?

Given the amount of pain the guy was in, i don't think he actually acted too unreasonable. Also we don't know what that punk kid said to Orton either. It was like that time D-Von snapped at a fan a few years back because he was hurling racial abuse at him. Three sides to every story at the end of the day, The Kid's side, Orton's side, and the truth.

VR!

Handsome Bob

But if I am right and the crowd were cheering him in the lead up his outburst, the pain he's in shouldn't be an excuse. As I said I can understand how distraught he was at the injury, but it was like he couldn't accept being in a weakened situation and the fans applauding him.

Kids sometimes can't seperate reality from fiction.

rovert

LZ5by5 wrote: »

That of course would be the other plausible explanation, that he stayed in character. But I think it would have been a nice touch to have silently walked up the aisle with his head held high while the crowd applauded..

NO ONE wants even an accidental babyface turn for Orton.

Bubs101

ONE NIGHT STAND SPOILERS PLEASE.

Bunch of ****ing ****

rovert

Bubs101 wrote: »

ONE NIGHT STAND SPOILERS PLEASE.

Bunch of ****ing ****

I HATE spoiler rules as they arent really enforced. Just stay away from Wrestling sites until you watch the PPV, hard?

Handsome Bob

Bubs101 wrote: »

ONE NIGHT STAND SPOILERS PLEASE.

Bunch of ****ing ****

This thread is titled WWE Draft discussion. Randy Orton's injury has a potential effect on the WWE Draft, just as the result of Undertaker v Edge potentially does. Thus we are entitled to freely discuss these issues that effect the draft.

Bubs101

LZ5by5 wrote: »

This thread is titled WWE Draft discussion. Randy Orton's injury has a potential effect on the WWE Draft, just as the result of Undertaker v Edge potentially does. Thus we are entitled to freely discuss these issues that effect the draft.

I entitle you to freely look at the charter which clearly says

Fozzy's first commandment wrote:

Anything that happens on a WWE PPV has to be marked as a spoiler until Wednesday night

Handsome Bob

Fair enough, spoiler tags it is so in future.

Then again, I would expect someone when entering a thread titled WWE Draft, and at the same time knowing the result of a match (TLC) could possibly have a knock on effect on the draft, to use some caution in entering.

JP Liz

I hope SD gets some good draftees

I'd love to see HBK, Y2J or Jeff Hardy on SD

BTW what show is the Big Show suppose to be on???

Handsome Bob

JP Liz wrote: »

I hope SD gets some good draftees

I'd love to see HBK, Y2J or Jeff Hardy on SD

BTW what show is the Big Show suppose to be on???

HBK and Y2J in my humble opinion both have a strong chance in going to SD.

As for Big Show, ho knows what show he's meant to be on. I think they my settle him on ECW in the draft.

rovert

LZ5by5 wrote: »

HBK and Y2J in my humble opinion both have a strong chance in going to SD.

Nah the HBK/J2Y feud will last longer than that Y2J probably wont have turned by them probably the storyline is going.

rovert wrote: »

Heres the thing about HBK he wants to be on the A show (RAW) , he would prefer to be on the same brand as Hunter and probably the most underated reason is that he has to back on Tuesday or Wednesday (I cant remember exactly which) as that day is a big church day for him and this is very, very important to him.

Does any of this chance your opinion?

Cactus Col

I think the best person to move to SD would be Ken Kennedy. There's already a built in feud with Edge having taken the money in the bank from Kennedy around this time last year. An ongoing feud with him, also mixing in Matt Hardy, could catapult both Hardy and Ken into the top tier.

john concannon

I really don't think that Kennedy will be drafted as it would kill any bit of momentum he has been getting on RAW.

Bubs101

I think it is fairly obvious that SD will get some big upper midcard talent from Raw, Hardy Umaga or Orton before his injury would be my bets. I think Raw will get two Divas so they can continue pushing the womens division and a monster heel, maybe Kelly Kelly, Michelle McCool and Mark Henry (who might have to move when PS Hayes comes back). ECW doesn't need anybody because their roster is too big for a 1 hour show so they'll probably have to ship their bigger younger stars to the bigger shows, CM Punk, Morrison, Miz and maybe Kofi could all be in danger. Kelly Kelly is certainly gone and they could swap Knox for Snitsky

Handsome Bob

- Carlito has once again made it known to WWE management that he is unhappy. WWE doesn't want to lose him as they want to keep Spanish speaking talent around for the future, but Carlito has been unhappy for awhile now. [WrestlingObserver.com]

- As reported earlier, Carlito is very unhappy with his role right now. He was especially upset at RAW on Monday after he and Santino Marella lost to Cryme Tyme. WWE was planning on moving Carlito to Smackdown since Smackdown draws a lot of Latin viewers, but for whatever reason, the move has not happened yet.

Just move him to SD in the draft and start over. His stint on Raw has been one to forget.

krudler

Carlito is a whinging ****er, always complaining hes not being used yet when they try to use him he does nothing with it, if you cant make something of feuding with HHH and Ric Flair in one year then its your own fault

grames_bond

seeing as jeff f*cked up and is looking like a jobber as punishment atm, (except for the umaga match but come on.....umaga is useless-they have never used him)i think it may b an idea to send him to SD, bring back team extreme, it would give them both great pushes! i want to see ken kennedy getting a better push on raw, dont be havin him in this stupid feud with that guy who fucks his sister, get him in the title frame....not yet ANOTHER hhh vs megacena feud!

rovert

grames_bond wrote: »

seeing as jeff f*cked up and is looking like a jobber as punishment atm, (except for the umaga match but come on.....umaga is useless-they have never used him)i think it may b an idea to send him to SD,

WAT?

grames_bond wrote: »

bring back team extreme, it would give them both great pushes!

FRESH IDEAS, what tag teams could they wrestle?

grames_bond

rovert wrote: »

FRESH IDEAS, what tag teams could they wrestle?

ah wwe could start makin some, id say theyd get a great feud with miz/morrison! the tag team division has been lagging for a whille , they could easily bring it back!

Handsome Bob

krudler wrote: »

Carlito is a whinging ****er, always complaining hes not being used yet when they try to use him he does nothing with it, if you cant make something of feuding with HHH and Ric Flair in one year then its your own fault

Really? I just read an in-depth summary of Carlito's feuds between 2005-2008 and I didn't see a year long feud with Triple H... He lost the intercontinental title to Ric Flair at Unforgiven 2005 and that's all that went.

rovert

grames_bond wrote: »

ah wwe could start makin some, id say theyd get a great feud with miz/morrison! the tag team division has been lagging for a whille , they could easily bring it back!

Statements like this are so 7 years ago. Its not going to happen and they dont let tag teams. End of story.

Do you really think Jeff is best served in a tag team considering he is an over main eventer now?

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Really? I just read an in-depth summary of Carlito's feuds between 2005-2008 and I didn't see a year long feud with Triple H... He lost the intercontinental title to Ric Flair at Unforgiven 2005 and that's all that went.

Oh jesus not you again