What Fish and how many

i_hate_rain

Hi
I recently bought a 60L fish tank to keep in my room and i have it running for a month at 26 deg without fish

I dont know what fish to get and how many to get i dont really trust the guy in my local petshop as all his fishtanks seem to be extremly overcrowded and he doesn know much about fish to be honest

Anyway i've been doing my own research and i def want a cory catfish as a bottom feeder and maybe some tetras is there anything else i could put in it??

Also what are the Fish in petmania like they seem to be looked after well

Any advise appreciated

Also this is prob a big no no but can i sometimes switch off the filter for a few hours?
I get migranes and the sound kills me:o

brianmc

i_hate_rain wrote: »

Hi
I recently bought a 60L fish tank to keep in my room and i have it running for a month at 26 deg without fish

I dont know what fish to get and how many to get i dont really trust the guy in my local petshop as all his fishtanks seem to be extremly overcrowded and he doesn know much about fish to be honest

Anyway i've been doing my own research and i def want a cory catfish as a bottom feeder and maybe some tetras is there anything else i could put in it??

Also what are the Fish in petmania like they seem to be looked after well

Any advise appreciated

Also this is prob a big no no but can i sometimes switch off the filter for a few hours?
I get migranes and the sound kills me:o

Switching off the filter for a few hours is definitely a big no no. It should be on all of the time (other of course than 20 mins or so to do your watr changes).

Do you know about ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? If not you WILL HAVE to understand them before ou have much success keeping fish alive.

As for choice of fish... Cory's are schooling fish so generally you should keep a half a dozen or so rather than one. That said though it's only a 60L tank. Tetra are the same, they're schooling fish but most people seem to know that or at least want a group anyway. Tetras and corys will go well together in terms of aggression/water parameters and so on so that's good.

Try and get out to a good fish shop at least for one visit and chat to the staff about your plans. Personally I go to Aquatic Village in Brittas behind the Blue Gardenia pub. Plenty of brains to pick out there. Lots of nice fish, and for me the location is good. If you can't get there regularly, I would at least suggest one trip to do a bit of learning. They have a new place in Tallaght too. It's less of a specialist fish shop but with some of the same staff so they should be well able to educate you there too.

Brian

Edit:

As for other fish, it is only a 60 L tank so after you have 5 corys and a shoal of 8 or 9 tetra you'll have to keep a close eye on your water parameters and your filtration before adding anything else, if at all. You could go for a couple of otocinclus instead of corys perhaps? Perhap a selection of different tetra? They come in a lot of other colours than just the neons. The neons though are probably the most colourful. There are some dwarf plecos available these days that grow to maybe 3 or 4 inches in length but it would take up a lot of your fish space. Similarly for things like dwarf gourami. You could just about get away with one or two but it would limit the number of other fish you could have. Some types of shrimp? Google "crystal red shrimp" for example. Loads of options but remember you do have quite a small tank! Don't go nuts on stocking or you'll just end up with several dead fish.

Jimkel

First of all I agree, Switching off the filter is a big mistake, The Bacteria responsible for breaking down the secondary fish waste needs a constant flow of water in order to obtain oxygen, switching off this flow will wipe out your bacterial colony after roughly 4 hours. Chances are you have an aquarium unsutable for fish. In a 60l Tank I would recommend weekly 1/4 water change with dechlorinated tap water or if you can RO water that has been remineralized. use a Gravel Vac to remove the detritus from the substrate while removing your water for the partial change. Once a month wash out your filter media in tank water, IE: before you chuck out the syphoned water give your sponges a good rinse in this water. Before you start stocking the tank I would recommend looking up the Nitrogen cycle . As far as fish go there are several good combinations for a tank of this size. Heres an interesting option, why not look into Apistogramma species of dwarf Cichlids or even some Microgeophagus, these can be kept with a shoal of tetra and maybe some Corys and trio of bristlenose pleco's. Just be sure to avoid fish that are gonna outgrow your tank, such as the Common Pleco, hypostomus plecostomus or the Sailfin Gibbiceps pleco. Also avoid any Rainbow sharks, Bala sharks, Red tailed Black sharks etc and certainly no African cichlids or Geophagus. Always ask about the agression level of a fish and it's ultimate size including wheter it likes hard or soft water, or specific PH before you buy. Some fish look pretty in the shop but are actually monstors in disguise.

As for the filter giving you a headache, there are plenty of filters out there to buy that are virtually silent, why not change your filter?

i_hate_rain

Jimkel wrote: »

First of all I agree, Switching off the filter is a big mistake, The Bacteria responsible for breaking down the secondary fish waste needs a constant flow of water in order to obtain oxygen, switching off this flow will wipe out your bacterial colony after roughly 4 hours. Chances are you have an aquarium unsutable for fish. In a 60l Tank I would recommend weekly 1/4 water change with dechlorinated tap water or if you can RO water that has been remineralized. use a Gravel Vac to remove the detritus from the substrate while removing your water for the partial change. Once a month wash out your filter media in tank water, IE: before you chuck out the syphoned water give your sponges a good rinse in this water. Before you start stocking the tank I would recommend looking up the Nitrogen cycle . As far as fish go there are several good combinations for a tank of this size. Heres an interesting option, why not look into Apistogramma species of dwarf Cichlids or even some Microgeophagus, these can be kept with a shoal of tetra and maybe some Corys and trio of bristlenose pleco's. Just be sure to avoid fish that are gonna outgrow your tank, such as the Common Pleco, hypostomus plecostomus or the Sailfin Gibbiceps pleco. Also avoid any Rainbow sharks, Bala sharks, Red tailed Black sharks etc and certainly no African cichlids or Geophagus. Always ask about the agression level of a fish and it's ultimate size including wheter it likes hard or soft water, or specific PH before you buy. Some fish look pretty in the shop but are actually monstors in disguise.

As for the filter giving you a headache, there are plenty of filters out there to buy that are virtually silent, why not change your filter?

I never thought of changing the filter, what would you recommend?

I had my water tested on Friday in petmania in Carlow The ammonia is too high so the girl gave me a bottle of Aqua + i think its called to treat it

What fish would be good to eat the algae or is there anything that i can add to the water to stop this?

Rory123

Fluval 2plus filter is great for your tank and virtually silent. I have one in my tank and another that I manage. Probably overkill for 60 litres but its difficult to get quality filters for smaller tanks.

bigpinkelephant

i_hate_rain wrote: »

I had my water tested on Friday in petmania in Carlow The ammonia is too high so the girl gave me a bottle of Aqua + i think its called to treat it

If your ammonia is too high it means you need a good old fashioned water change!

Regarding fish, I will give you a run down of my own experience:

-Siamese Fighting Fish are beautiful but they are made of wet tissue paper and I have yet to get more than 2 months out of one- usually a week or so and that's in a mature, healthy tank with compatible fish. Part of the problem is that they are overbred (same with Guppies), also they only have a lifespan of 1.5- 2 years and only develop their full beauty when they are adults. Pet shops only buy them when they are at this stage so they only have a matter of months to go even in the shop.

-Neon tetras are great little things. They are cheap and they shoal really well. I have about 20 of them and they look fantastic together.

-Panda Corys stay small and are very very cute and hard workers too

-Gold Barbs are nice, a bit plain (same shape and similar colour as a goldfish).

-Guppies used to be a great beginner's fish but have been overbred for colour and fancy finnage so they don't last very long- plus because they are small and have long fins, they are a target for more aggressive fish.

-Tiger Barbs look great but can be very aggressive. It sounds mad but if you have a few and they are bullying your other fish, the solution is usually to buy more of them- the more of them in the group, the more time they spend watching each other instead of chasing your other fish!

-Dwarf Gouramis are gorgeous, especially the turquoise/blue ones- they almost glow. I find the larger Honey ones a little more aggressive but most of my fish were smaller- perhaps they would be OK with bigger fish. Keeping Gouramis with a Siamese Fighting fish is a bad idea as they are closely related and can fight.

Jimkel

i_hate_rain wrote: »

I never thought of changing the filter, what would you recommend?

I had my water tested on Friday in petmania in Carlow The ammonia is too high so the girl gave me a bottle of Aqua + i think its called to treat it

What fish would be good to eat the algae or is there anything that i can add to the water to stop this?

Ug don't use Amquel+ if your ammonia is too high then your tank is not cycled, Ammonia should read 0, Nitrite should read 0 and Nitrate should read no more then 40 ppm, which indicated a water change is required, try keep you nitrate under 10 ppm through water changes. If you PH is below 7.0 Then the Ammonia is non toxic to fish and therefore harmless untill it is converted to Nitrite.

i_hate_rain

I did a 20% water change last night and added in Fresh Start and Amquel+
Have i done something wrong ??
I'll get my water tested Wed or is that too early?
Would it be better to buy my own test kit for the future

hadook

bigpinkelephant wrote: »

-Siamese Fighting Fish are beautiful but they are made of wet tissue paper and I have yet to get more than 2 months out of one- usually a week or so and that's in a mature, healthy tank with compatible fish. Part of the problem is that they are overbred (same with Guppies), also they only have a lifespan of 1.5- 2 years and only develop their full beauty when they are adults. Pet shops only buy them when they are at this stage so they only have a matter of months to go even in the shop.

I lost my Siamese Fighting Fish a couple of weeks ago after 4 months. I couldn't figure out why and then almost didn't believe it when I read that it was most likely old age that got him

bigpinkelephant wrote: »

-Neon tetras are great little things. They are cheap and they shoal really well. I have about 20 of them and they look fantastic together.

I'd second that; I have neons, black neons and glowlight tetras and they all shoal together - they're excellent little fish. I have lemon tetras too but they're a little more standoffish.

brianmc

i_hate_rain wrote: »

I did a 20% water change last night and added in Fresh Start and Amquel+
Have i done something wrong ??
I'll get my water tested Wed or is that too early?
Would it be better to buy my own test kit for the future

Amquel makes it more difficult to get a stable system going. It locks up the ammonia which is poisonous to fish. That sounds good but... the more stable approach is to allow bacteria to build up in the filter that feed on the ammonia and will convert the ammonia to nitrite. If you lock up all of the ammonia the bacteria can't grow.

Once bacteria start growing that convert ammonia to nitrite, another type of bacteria can start to grow that feed on nitrite and convert it to nitrate. NitrAte is not so poisonous until it starts to build up, so then you start doing some water changes to keep the amount of nitrate low.

Once you're up and running you should never be able to detect ammonia or nitrite because there are enough bacteria living in the filter to convert these almost instantly.

In the past this whole process could take weeks to get matured and you would need to provide a source of ammonia (usually in the past a fish - but that's not very fair on the fish). At the moment you have no source of ammonia in your tank and the amquel will lock up any that comes from fish, decaying food etc. for the moment.

The idea behind the freshstart is that it adds a load of bacteria straight away that will stock up your filter and be able to convert ammonia and nitrites straight off. Since those bacteria need feeding to survive (a source of ammonia - fish poo, decaying fish food, etc.) I think it makes most sense to add fish to the tank very soon after the safestart - as in a couple of hours.

So... What to do next...

Well, I don't know if amquel will hang around in the tank and lock up any ammonia that appears from fish over the next while so for safety sake I would be inclined to empty and refill the tank with dechlorinated water. Get the temperature right. Add a new bottle of safe start and then get a few (just a few, 3 or 4) fish the same day.


As for test kits... Yep, I certainly think you should get one yourself. Your water from the tap once dechlorinated is very very likely to be absolutely fine for fish. It's a pretty slim chance that it's not. Getting your water tested now will probably just show that there is no ammonia, no nitrites and next to no nitrates. This is because there are also no fish. The useful thing about testing the water is to be able to keep an eye on what is happening to the water over time - after the fish have been added. My plan would be to add a few fish once you're set up and then keep a regular eye on your water parameters (levels of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate) and if after a few weeks you're not seeing any ammonia or nitrite and you're managing your nitrates ok with water changes, then your filter is in good shape. If all is well, you could maybe add a few more fish at that point. Rinse and repeat.

Edit 2: I just re read an earlier post you made. The girl in Petmania said that the level of ammonia in your water is too high. This water is pretty much just tap water that was dechlorinated and left in the tank? Strange. There shouldn't be any ammonia in it. Is there something in the water tank in your attic decaying? If there is ammonia present in your water before it even gets to the fish tank you have a problem. You can't really (certainly not easily) maintain a healthy tank with that water.

Jimkel

The Problem with commercial bacterial cultures is that they do not actually contain the bacterias required to oxidise Ammonia and Nitrite, they actually contain related cultures of bacteria that "May" help speed up the development of benificial bacteria.

There has been little evidence supporting these claims and I find them a waste of time.

If you really want a problem free set up thats easy to use go to Blanchardstown Petshop and get some Organic aqua. I have tested it with thousands of fish several times including marine set ups and have found it to be an excellent way of filtering the tank. All you need is an airpump, airstone and a mechanical filter. This is by far the easiest way to look after your fish and ensure top conditions. If you use it you can fully stock a tank instantlly!

Otherwise I would consider adding about 5 zebra danios or white cloud mountain minnows and go the old fashioned route, it's far quicker and more stable then fishless cycling.but You may lose one or two of them after a week or so.

If you have a mate who has an aquarium, even a coldwater aquarium then you can get some of their tank water and use it to fill your tank, then get your filter sponge into some of that water, get your mates sponge and rub em together. Immediatly get that filter into your tank, top up with dechlorinated water that has been standing for 24 hours and bobs your uncle, a tank ready for fish in an instant.

Always add only a few fish in any one week, everytime you add fish the bacterial colony has to multiply and expand in order to accomodate the new level of waste. If you add too many at one time then you risk a filter crash, where you bacteria cannot multiply and oxidise waste quick enough to prevent toxins from building up and then your left with an ammonia or Nitrite spike, and a bunch of dead fish or a nasty disease like dropsy. Slow and steady, the more patient you are the less fish you will lose.

Now not to sound pessimistic but you WILL lose fish, I have yet to see a beginner set up a new tank and not kill a few fish in the process. So be prepared for this and add only cheap fish in the beginning.

Oh by the way I would Highly recommend a Fluval underwater filter, minimum fluval 2, a 3 is better. don't worry you cannot over filtrate just make sure the flow is not too strong for small fish to swim in, you can tell if the filter current is too powerful if you see all the fish unable to move from the opposite side of the tank, just lower the flow control or direct the flow in towards the glass. Aquaone internal filters are good aswell but avoid the Elite mini filter, and the Elite stingray, not great filters IMHO.

brianmc

Jimkel wrote: »

The Problem with commercial bacterial cultures is that they do not actually contain the bacterias required to oxidise Ammonia and Nitrite, they actually contain related cultures of bacteria that "May" help speed up the development of benificial bacteria.

If you really want a problem free set up thats easy to use go to Blanchardstown Petstop and get some Organic aqua. I have tested it with thousands of fish several times including marine set ups and have found it to be an excellent way of filtering the tank. All you need is an airpump, airstone and a mechanical filter.

Otherwise I would consider adding about 5 zebra danios or white cloud mountain minnows and go the old fashioned route, it's far quicker and more stable then fishless cycling.but You may lose one or two of them after a week or so.

If you have a mate who has an aquarium, even a coldwater aquarium then you can get some of their tank water and use it to fill your tank, then get your filter sponge into some of that water, get your mates sponge and rub em together. Immediatly get that filter into your tank, top up with dechlorinated water that has been standing for 24 hours and bobs your uncle, a tank ready fo fish in an instant.

All true too!

First things first though whatever you do...

Find out if there is already ammonia present in the water that you are using to fill the tank. If there is, you need to rethink your water source first!

i_hate_rain

brianmc wrote: »

All true too!

First things first though whatever you do...

Find out if there is already ammonia present in the water that you are using to fill the tank. If there is, you need to rethink your water source first!

Could the ammonia be coming from a dead plant?
I bought java moss off ebay and most of it seemed to be dead i emailed the seller and they said it probably needed a few days in the tank so i left it and only took it out when i did the water change, and my house is only newly built so i doubt there is anything in the attic getting into the water

brianmc

i_hate_rain wrote: »

Could the ammonia be coming from a dead plant?
I bought java moss off ebay and most of it seemed to be dead i emailed the seller and they said it probably needed a few days in the tank so i left it and only took it out when i did the water change, and my house is only newly built so i doubt there is anything in the attic getting into the water

Ah! Yep. That's likely it!

With that out of the way, I'd be inclined to change the water and go with any one of the options mentioned...

Tetra safe start.

Squeezings from somebody else's well established filter.

Organic Aqua (although I don't know how readily that's available in Carlow).


Oh! and trim off as much of the dead plant bits as you can!

i_hate_rain

Hi

Thanks for everyones advice but honestly its getting to be too much hassle, I'm too far away from a decent petshop and I just dont have the time to keep driving up and down to carlow and wexford town to be given conflicting advice by the people in the petshops:mad:


I've decided to sell the tank so if anyone wants it :

http://www.adverts.ie/showproduct.php?product=61530&cat=32

Jimkel

Thats a real shame, you will notice that the advice recieved here does not conflict, we are merely offering you some different solutions to the same problem. Pity you don't have access to Organic aqua, it makes everything oh so easy.

ValerieR

Don't just get discouraged in just under a week... You are nearly there !!!!
Fish Keeping is a very rewarding and addictive hobby. It sounds very complicated to start with but, in fact it's not.

First, you go to the shop and get yourself a testing kit to measure your main water parameters (ammonia, nitrites and nitrates) as well as some dechlorinator if you haven't got some already.
While you are in the shop, purchase 4 danio rerio (stripy and hardy little fish).
Once you come home, you measure your water parameters and replace some of the water in your tank with dechlorinated tap water until the ammonia reading shows zero.
Make sure the water is at the right temperature (or nearly), hang the bag in your tank and add a little water from your tank into the shop water every so often to acclimatize the fish. After 45 min, place the fish in your tank.
Voila, you have a tank with fish in it !!!!
After that, you are just talking about maintenance... changing some of the water regularly to keep the water parameters right (no ammonia/nitrites) and adding more fish in small quantities over time.

I hope this helps.
ValerieR

brianmc

i_hate_rain wrote: »

Hi

Thanks for everyones advice but honestly its getting to be too much hassle, I'm too far away from a decent petshop and I just dont have the time to keep driving up and down to carlow and wexford town to be given conflicting advice by the people in the petshops:mad:


I've decided to sell the tank so if anyone wants it :

http://www.adverts.ie/showproduct.php?product=61530&cat=32

Oh nooooOOO!

I feel bad now. I think I made it all sound very complicated.

You're so nearly there! It sounds to me like you only need to spend 5 or 6 euro on another bottle of fresh start and choose some fish.

I hope you change your mind. (Or rather I hope you do what you want to do but that I haven't discouraged you.)