July 1st Regulation Changes

techdiver

Alanstrainor wrote: »

There is no way that could be feasibly implemented, first come first served is the only logical way to go about it.

I agree first come first serve is the way to go, but it doesn't take a genius to work out a schedule based on the FIFO system.

As an application is received a test date is allocated based on the next available spot, any simple queued software application can achieve this instantly.

That would at least give people a decent idea of when their test will be as opposed to this limbo system we currently endure.

pocketvenus

Alanstrainor wrote: »

There is no way that could be feasibly implemented, first come first served is the only logical way to go about it.

Look I am not being smart but that first come first served does not apply in all cases.

What I cannot understand is if that is the case why am I still waiting. They can see when I phone them and ask about the test date I applied in Oct 07 surely I should get priority over somebody who applied in April. However from posts here you can see that is not the case as people who have applied recently are getting them in 5 -6 weeks.

Evolute

Alanstrainor wrote: »

There is no way that could be feasibly implemented, first come first served is the only logical way to go about it.

What he is looking for is a date not a test in the next 2 months

raido9

pocketvenus wrote: »

Look I am not being smart but that first come first served does not apply in all cases.

What I cannot understand is if that is the case why am I still waiting. They can see when I phone them and ask about the test date I applied in Oct 07 surely I should get priority over somebody who applied in April. However from posts here you can see that is not the case as people who have applied recently are getting them in 5 -6 weeks.

I presume you didn't put i a letter saying you need the car for work?

Its not right, but everybody does it. Its the only way to get a quick test!

pocketvenus

raido9 wrote: »

I presume you didn't put i a letter saying you need the car for work?

Its not right, but everybody does it. Its the only way to get a quick test!

Yes I did and I actually do need if for work as I travel alot for meetings and it be nice to drive than rely on public transport.

I know I am probably one of a very small minority who got overlooked but now I have to suffer for their mistake. And before anyone asks yes I did get a receipt from them a week later to say they have received my application and money!!

I am just resigned to the fact that it will be August, considering that is a month away and they cannot still tell me a date for test I do not have much confidence in the system at present.

pocketvenus

dreamingoak wrote: »

thank you techdiver and pocket venus (lovely name) for weighing in on the side of the provisional driver on a waiting list! It seems theyd like to round us all up, shoot first and ask questions later.

Good luck with the test dreamingoak you should have no problem passing it.

techdiver

pocketvenus wrote: »

Yes I did and I actually do need if for work as I travel alot for meetings and it be nice to drive than rely on public transport.

I know I am probably one of a very small minority who got overlooked but now I have to suffer for their mistake. And before anyone asks yes I did get a receipt from them a week later to say they have received my application and money!!

I am just resigned to the fact that it will be August, considering that is a month away and they cannot still tell me a date for test I do not have much confidence in the system at present.

Yes but many here will defend the system to the bitter end even though it is clearly sub-standard.

I can only assume they are trying to antagonize you, because there is no excuse for the balls up you have been subjected to. NONE!

pocketvenus

techdiver wrote: »

Yes but many here will defend the system to the bitter end even though it is clearly sub-standard.

I can only assume they are trying to antagonize you, because there is no excuse for the balls up you have been subjected to. NONE!

I think there is an attitude of "pull the ladder up Jack, Im ok". I really want to believe this is not done with any malice but just short memories and they got their test before the deadine. Under different circumstances they might be here in same position and I bet they would hope people would show some bit of understanding.

I know if the positions were reveresed I would be feeling sympathy for people who are still waiting for a test due to bad system.

dreamingoak

pocketvenus wrote: »

I think there is an attitude of "pull the ladder up Jack, Im ok". I really want to believe this is not done with any malice but just short memories and they got their test before the deadine. Under different circumstances they might be here in same position and I bet they would hope people would show some bit of understanding.

I know if the positions were reveresed I would be feeling sympathy for people who are still waiting for a test due to bad system.

Yes theres a whole lot of 'I'm alright jack 'going on it seems! thanks digidaz and venus, and good luck to you too!

Incidentally i've been legally driving on a second provisional for the most part, it was only recently changed to a third.
I just booked some pre-test lessons and the instructor asked me to meet him with my car at the test centre! not so much as a word about not driving. But still i'll only be doing necessary driving between the 1st and the 9th when the test is

Wishbone Ash

pocketvenus wrote: »

I think there is an attitude of "pull the ladder up Jack, Im ok". I really want to believe this is not done with any malice but just short memories and they got their test before the deadine

Many of us obeyed the regulations even when a blind eye was turned to them because it was the law. I have a full licence in all categories and never drove unaccompanied in any category where I was legally required to be accompanied. Why should others be allowed to flout the regulations?

I'm sure your vehicle is taxed, insured, NCTed (if applicable). Do you not get disillusioned when you know that others simply don't bother? And if they informed you that they need their car to get to work/school/college etc. would you accept that as an excuse?

monkey24

It took me 6 months to get my test when I applied in October. I failed by one grade two mark and am waiting now 6 weeks or so. Haven't heard anything back. If the waiting list was down to 6-8 weeks I would say great, this law makes sense. But it clearly isn't. I have two brothers who are both waiting on their test for over 3 months. This is my only gripe about the current changes. The infrastructure has not been put in place to cope with demand.

Also, why do people have to reply with a message thats sole aim is to put other people down. If you support the law completely and feel it's being implemented effectively then you are entitled to that opinion. But why be so negative towards people who find themselves in a difficult situation because of it. Why take the time out just to bash someone.

Its a great Irish trait wanting to feel superior to your fellow country man. It was quite evident in the property bubble, those who were making money on houses were only too quick to rub it in other peoples faces, now on the way down people are only to quick to say how f*cked they are.

It takes far more effort to post something negative than to just say nothing at all. Some of the posts in here are so ignorant regardless of your opinions of the new measures being taken.

The posts aimed at the woman who has been driving for 12 years are a disgrace. There is no need to be so vile towards someone. Either offer advise or say nothing. It seems some people have a "Must be a twat" quota to fill each day.

Morgans

well said Monkey24.

If the original poster was still waiting to do the test for the first time in years and was still on her second provisional, they would have to save their ire for the next unususpecting unfortunate.

Coulple of comments from the thread

- getting your final exams are far more important than passing your driving test
- anything like a €1000 fine for driving without L-plates is ridiculous
- The defence of the RSA and all their actions from some is mindboggling, given that they wanted to bring this legislation in overnight and it was only those who complained brought the far more sensible breathing space. Their holier than thou "I'm sure there are going to be some pain for some people but lives will be saved" pronouncements at the time showed a complete lack of understanding. As was said on Questions and Answers by a govt minister "Sure, there are gardai on provisionals" Of course when pressed if L-plate drivers were a higher than proportionate danger to people on the roads, it was revealed by Noel Brett that L-plate drivers were proportionally involved in fewer accidents.

The law that allows 2nd provisionals to drive unaccompanied is ridiculous and needed to be changed to be brought in line with the other levels of provisional drivers. But, there are plenty of good/safe drivers who fail their tests. A friend of mine got her father to drive her to the test centre, somehow passed the test, and still wasnt comfortable enough and got her father to drive her home. She can barely change gear but will never be asked to sit the test again. This black and white attitude regarding driving and passing the test from some of the more beligerent on here really is ridiculous.

Anyway, best of luck on the test OP, you shouldnt expect to get preferential treatment because of your personal circumstances and if you get the wrong type of guard you dont have a leg to stand on. However, the reality will probably be something less severe.

bigpinkelephant

dreamingoak wrote: »

I've been driving perfectly competetly for the last three years,

Have you sat a test that proves you are competent? No.

dreamingoak wrote: »

and have not failed a test in this country.

Have you failed one in another country? What with your 12 years of provisional licences....

Last November I had never sat behind the wheel of a car and within 6 months I had passed my driving test first time. If I could do it why can't you?

dreamingoak wrote: »

I was just following the old way of waiting till I felt completely ready before applying for the test.

It took you 3 years to feel completely ready to drive around a housing estate at 50kph???

dreamingoak wrote: »

I'm a 30 something woman, and have a completely clean ( provisional ) licence. surely a guard would be reasonable? .

What has your age or gender got to do with it? You'll be telling us your occupation next. You seem to think that because you aren't a 17 year old boy racer that that means you are OK. A lot of these "boy racers" have full licences as they learned to drive and passed their test as soon as they could. Look down on them if you want but they have something you don't- motivation.

masterwriter

monkey24 wrote: »

It took me 6 months to get my test when I applied in October. I failed by one grade two mark and am waiting now 6 weeks or so. Haven't heard anything back. If the waiting list was down to 6-8 weeks I would say great, this law makes sense. But it clearly isn't. I have two brothers who are both waiting on their test for over 3 months. This is my only gripe about the current changes. The infrastructure has not been put in place to cope with demand.

Also, why do people have to reply with a message thats sole aim is to put other people down. If you support the law completely and feel it's being implemented effectively then you are entitled to that opinion. But why be so negative towards people who find themselves in a difficult situation because of it. Why take the time out just to bash someone.

Its a great Irish trait wanting to feel superior to your fellow country man. It was quite evident in the property bubble, those who were making money on houses were only too quick to rub it in other peoples faces, now on the way down people are only to quick to say how f*cked they are.

It takes far more effort to post something negative than to just say nothing at all. Some of the posts in here are so ignorant regardless of your opinions of the new measures being taken.

The posts aimed at the woman who has been driving for 12 years are a disgrace. There is no need to be so vile towards someone. Either offer advise or say nothing. It seems some people have a "Must be a twat" quota to fill each day.

Well said monkey. I have a full licence so no axe...

Wishbone Ash

monkey24 wrote: »

If the waiting list was down to 6-8 weeks I would say great, this law makes sense. But it clearly isn't

The waiting time is based on the AVERAGE.

You say that you applied in october. Why then?

monkey24 wrote:

why do people have to reply with a message thats sole aim is to put other people down. If you support the law completely and feel it's being implemented effectively then you are entitled to that opinion. But why be so negative towards people who find themselves in a difficult situation because of it. Why take the time out just to bash someone.

If you are referring to me, I haven't put anyone down.

Do you seriously expect me to support and encourage people to break the law? Many of us managed to be learner drivers and abide by the regulations.

Do you think those who can't/won't pay their tax, insurance, NCT should be exempt from paying because they are in a 'difficult situation'? Do you think those who have no way of getting to the pub should be exempt from the 'driving under the influence' regulations? I'm sure they are also in a 'difficult situation'.

monkey24 wrote:

Its a great Irish trait wanting to feel superior to your fellow country man.

It also a great Irish trait to break the rules and effectively give the 'two fingers' to the law abiding citizens.

monkey24 wrote:

Some of the posts in here are so ignorant regardless of your opinions of the new measures being taken.

Much of the ignorance is being shown by those who are on Provisional Licences/Learner Permits.

wil

People come on here to gripe about a law that is a long time overdue or existing laws that up till now have been barely enforced.
It is a very Oirish thing.

Daily, monthly, yearly all this talk about road deaths and yet nothing gets done.
Why?, because of moaners like these.
People who have used the lax system to their advantage for so many (12 in some cases) to just not bother are "suddenly" GUUUFFAAAW "suddenly" (could it be any less sudden) being put out by being asked to comply with a fairly sane law.
They want it gradually brought in until their retirement day.:rolleyes:

Ultimately it is just a cop out and all this pis$ing and moaning is nothing more than a childish response to a sane and fair law that has had plenty of notice and more than adequate discussion over the last decade.

There are plenty of benefits that vastly outweigh the discomfort of some.
Peoples attitudes to driving laws and safety might improve. A few less people might just not die or be maimed on our roads. A bit more accountability for those using the roads. A tad more sense to a lax system open to abundent abuse. Not to mention lowering of insurance costs, health costs, more car pooling, more incentive to use public transport, less pollution, less congestion, less parking issues etc, etc

I really can not think of any benefit of allowing unlicenced drivers to continue driving unhindered on our roads.

Wait, yes I can,
Not to have to listen to them Pis$ and moan.:rolleyes:

techdiver

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The waiting time is based on the AVERAGE.

No they are not they are based on fantasy and fabrication. And when the announcement was made by the minister he committed to 10 weeks or less for all drivers. There was no mention of average times or anything else of the sort. Based on his commitment they have failed. FACT!

Wishbone Ash

techdiver wrote: »

No they are not they are based on fantasy and fabrication. And when the announcement was made by the minister he committed to 10 weeks or less for all drivers. There was no mention of average times or anything else of the sort. Based on his commitment they have failed. FACT!

The 10 week commitment was to be available within a specific timeframe. I'm fairly sure it was based on an average but regardless, the timeframe isn't expired yet so I don't know how you can say they have failed.

Another thing to bear in mind is that many learners have applied to various test centres thereby pushing up the average. The real average is probably a bit lower than the RSA figures.

wil

techdiver wrote: »

No they are not they are based on fantasy and fabrication. And when the announcement was made by the minister he committed to 10 weeks or less for all drivers. There was no mention of average times or anything else of the sort. Based on his commitment they have failed. FACT!

Can he still continue ministering unaccompanied?:D

Average is similar to mean.
Would you prefer "mean times"?

Wishbone Ash

I've just checked the RSA site. They refer to a commitment to reduce the waiting times for tests to an AVERAGE of 10 weeks.

wil

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I've just checked the RSA site. They refer to a commitment to reduce the waiting times for tests to an AVERAGE of 10 weeks.

Further proof (if any is ever needed) that complainers will chance their arm making up their own quotes.

Ultimately no matter how many weeks are quoted and whatever targets are met, there will always be some stragglers who chance their fate to the mercy of the system by not taking it seriously and acting in good time.

Praise has to be given where it is due, The system is better than it was and the fact that some are put out is proof the system is working.
As they say the exception proves the rule.

Morgans

Is 10 weeks really on-demand, as has been proclaimed by the RSA and the govt? That always wrankled with me.

I passed first go (I'm fantastic, I know) but from my vantage point of being a late learner driver, I think learner drivers are far less likely to cause serious accidents than those who pass first go and are a little too confident rather than a little too nervous.

How many times have you been passed by someone going a startling speed with a L-plate up? L- plate drivers that I know are more likely to upset others by not overtaking than the other way round. (I know that this is a danger but less likely to cause a serious accident than someone who is too brave.)

As i said, getting the 2nd prov licences in line with the other learners is obviously right, but as a measure I think it will have absolute minimal effect on the number of deaths on the road. But this is generally the argument used by people who stridently seek out transgressors of the L-plate laws and bash them over the head with it. Its the line the RSA used when it tried to introduce the law over a weekend in October. Its clearly necessary to sort out the anomaly but I doubt the roads will be any safer as a result. Far better measures are out there waiting to be implemented.

MrPudding

Morgans wrote: »

But, there are plenty of good/safe drivers who fail their tests.

So how do you suggest we separate them from the bad/unsafe drivers that fail their tests?

Perhaps the waiting times might be less if the idiots that are not going to pass the test give up their slots to someone that actually has a chance, then reapply when they are actually ready. Having around a 50% fail rate for what is generally considered a very inadequate and simple test shows that a large number of people are simply not ready and are wasting examiner time.

MrP

Morgans

I dont know. Its a good question and a good point but stopping people who get called but are not ready, those who are only chancing their arm and really just hoping for the best would need a fundamental change to the system. I suppose, maybe some sort of a state sponsored training program when provisional licencees have a set of "lessons" after which the assessor applies for you. As I said, I dont know.

But the dichotomy of passed test = competent driver vs failed test = incompetent driver is one that is used by the very legalistic on here to clobber anyone with any grey area on the issue.

Some hard luck stories in the driving test are just that - hard luck stories. If a driver on a provisional for ten years, failed the test three times, (maybe gets nervous thinking about the test), maybe he/she struggles with the reverse around the corner but is perfect otherwise, but is never involved a crash in the ten years, he/she would be classed as incompetent by many on here (as he/she would be in law). No doubt he/she would be fodder for plenty on these forums.

Yet, someone who has passed their test but has subsequently written off multiple cars are never once asked to prove their competence again. IMO its a far grayer area in which circumstances do play a part.

techdiver

wil wrote: »

Praise has to be given where it is due, The system is better than it was and the fact that some are put out is proof the system is working.
As they say the exception proves the rule.

If you like settling for second best or the "not there but getting there" attitude, that's fine, but I for one am not going to pretend to be content until the public service in this country functions as it should and the tax payer gets value for money.

But of course if everyone settles for rthe status quo then we will be stuck in this public service quagmire for a long time to come.

monkey24

Wishbone,

I took 2 months of lessons before October and was told by my instructor I should go for the test. It had nothing to do with the law change. Not that it matters as why does anyone have to explain themselves to a sad little man on a message board.

"Do you seriously expect me to support and encourage people to break the law?"

No and in your excitement to get involved in more arguments so you can feel good about yourself, you have managed to miss the point of my post. As I said, I wouldn't expect you to support or encourage people. But why post at all? I cannot see what your posts add to this thread other than feeding into some kind of superiority complex. If you have nothing to add in relation to advise being sought, then just say nothing.

My post was not to argue for one side or the other. I clearly stated I respected the new rule even though I find the waiting time frustrating. Your immediate response was to try pick it apart beginning with the October date.

Look back over your posts in this thread. Looks at the OP's original post. Look at your initial reply. You simply posted just to have a "GO" at the OP. There was no benefit to the OP in your post. It was argumentative, condescending and pretty pathetic.

pocketvenus

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Many of us obeyed the regulations even when a blind eye was turned to them because it was the law. I have a full licence in all categories and never drove unaccompanied in any category where I was legally required to be accompanied. Why should others be allowed to flout the regulations?

I'm sure your vehicle is taxed, insured, NCTed (if applicable). Do you not get disillusioned when you know that others simply don't bother? And if they informed you that they need their car to get to work/school/college etc. would you accept that as an excuse?

In the case of tax and insurance of course I would not accept however that is a different matter.


I never drove unaccompanied either on my 1st provisional however I am not going to judge anybody who did as I do not know the circumstances they are in. As long as they are safe drivers and are fully competent on the road I am not going to get all upset.

I know you will say that 1st provisional drivers are not but I can tell you that I took 15 lesson from a qualified driving instructor over the course of my first license and after them he told me he could not teach me anymore and what I needed was just to get out and drive which I did with my accompanying driver and then on my own when I got my 2nd provisional.

Having a pink license does not make any more a safe or careful driver than a L - plater in certain cases and I think by taking note of the way some qualified drivers drive highlights this fact.

All I am saying is that you know from reading posts here they are genuine people who have been waiting a long time for tests which were promised to us before July 1st. We want to our tests and have been pro-actively trying to get them but all we are getting are negative comments.

--amadeus--

Look at it another way...

The practical as it stands is a very, very low test standard. Very basic manouvers and very low speeds. The manouvers are the bare minimum you would need to park in Dunnes car park and beyond that the test has little relevance to real driving - most of us won't spend the bulk of our driving lives at 50kph in a housing estate.

And yet 50% of the people on provisionals - people who may be battering down the N7 at 100kph in teh pouring rain unacomanied - are incapable of reaching even this low standard! Extrapolate the figures - if there are 300,000 people on teh test list then that is 150,000 people who are probably incapable of reversing into a parking space and yet there are many on here who claim that they should be free to drive around a city centre for no other reason than they want to.

If a driver on a provisional for ten years, failed the test three times, (maybe gets nervous thinking about the test), maybe he/she struggles with the reverse around the corner but is perfect otherwise, but is never involved a crash in the ten years, he/she would be classed as incompetent by many on here

Of course I would class them as incompetant! If you lack the basic ability to reverse around a corner then you are very unlikley to be able to do everything else perfectly and if you fail the test 3 times then I don't care how long you're driving you are probably unsafe! In your example they aren't a safe driver, just lucky...

JP Liz

At present from July 1st all provisional licence holders and learner permit holders need to display L Plates and drive with a Full Licenced Driver accompanying them.

Accidents are happening to all drivers no matter their licence

They need to look at the state of some the roads/speed/bigger vehicles also

My question to the RSA and the Minister is

"What to do when you have no Qualified Full Licenced Driver to accompany you?"

BTW there is still a long waiting list for tests

ztoical

JP Liz wrote: »

My question to the RSA and the Minister is

"What to do when you have no Qualified Full Licenced Driver to accompany you?"

what do people in other countries do where they've never been allowed to drive on their own? They seem to manage yet it seems like such an impossible feat for people here.