Funny video showing MEP expense fraud

PaintingMedium

Great video showing how MEPs are ripping off the public and claiming expenses that they should not be getting. It is funny to see this German journalist being threatened with legal action from Kathy Sinnott MEP when she has been shown to be cheating the system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnMtc_QJ4-E

Mena

I watched it before the guy made it private. Quite shocking to say the least.

ixtlan

This makes me angry on several levels.

Firstly there is the fraud involved. To be honest though we have all know that this goes on. I am strongly pro-EU and pro-Lisbon, and would never see this kind of fraud as a reason to vote no, especially since the fraud is usually at the national level, and hence up to each country to resolve rather than to blame the EU.

Secondly it brings back my general anger at being misled/deceived/ignorant of Kathy Sinnot's EU policy when she was elected. I voted for her at the time because she was a strong advocate of the rights of the disabled and those less fortunate, and I expected her to use the EU institutions to force the Irish government to do the right thing. This would have involved giving up more sovereignty. Therefore it was much to my dismay to find her joining the fringe Independence and Democracy group, which is determined to take power away from the EU. It dismayed me even further to find her face staring at me from posters proclaiming the great evil of the Lisbon treaty.

Now I am angry at the hippocracy which appears to be involved here. For those who don't watch the video, it is a German prime-time like programme which is exposing those MEPs signing up for attendence at the EU parliament at 7am in the morning, carrying suitcases and obviously intending to leave immediately for their home countries.

We cannot say for certain what Kathy was going to do. However the facts as shown on the video are: She was signing up at 7am, with a packed travelling suitcase. When asked whether she was leaving and still claiming the attendance allowance she said "Be very careful about using this and what you report about me. I have worked seven hours already which is almost a whole shift." The voiceover considers this a threat of legal action and comments that the allowance is not meant for night work, but is for actually attending the parliament.

Now, let me be somewhat kinder to Kathy. I am sure that she believes in her attitude to the EU and Lisbon. I am sure that she works very hard and puts in more hours in total than required. I am sure that she is very busy and may not be able to attend the parliament.

However that does not make defrauding EU taxpayers right, if that was what was happening. From her response it is strongly implied that she believed what she was doing was wrong. Even if she worked all night she is not entitled to the money unless she attends the parliament, and I have serious questions as to her effectiveness in Europe if she is indeed staying up all night. I'm also annoyed at her threat towards a journalist who was trying to make the EU more open and accountable, a goal that she would in public be saying she agrees with.

What I would like is for this to be escalated so that she makes some kind of statement, either explaining that she did attend that day in the parliament, or apologising for wrongly taking the money. I would also like her to name and shame any other Irish MEPs who have done the same thing. Indeed I'd like every one of them to make statements on whether they have done this in the past, and whether they would do it again.

I don't really want to let this go. It's up to us as Irish citizens to make sure that our MEPs are following the rules... or at least it is when it thrown right at me for comment. Should we start a petition? All try to send e-mails to Kathy? Send e-mails to her parliamentary group which complains all the time about EU fraud?

So, there it is. Comments?

Ix.

desiredbard

The Irish representative even threatens the reporter.
Ok Dutch site...German narratives and English subtitles.
http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/161331/afc902e3/europarlementariers_zijn_zakkenvullers.html
If one would need an additional resoning for No on lisbon2 besides bullying and the prooif Irelands Voice counts for nothing

molloyjh

desiredbard wrote: »

The Irish representative even threatens the reporter.
Ok Dutch site...German narratives and English subtitles.
http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/161331/afc902e3/europarlementariers_zijn_zakkenvullers.html
If one would need an additional resoning for No on lisbon2 besides bullying and the prooif Irelands Voice counts for nothing

And how exactly does this relate to Lisbon?

marco_polo

desiredbard wrote: »

The Irish representative even threatens the reporter.
Ok Dutch site...German narratives and English subtitles.
http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/161331/afc902e3/europarlementariers_zijn_zakkenvullers.html
If one would need an additional resoning for No on lisbon2 besides bullying and the prooif Irelands Voice counts for nothing

The link is blocked here at work which automatically has me suspicious as to its validity.

mike65

Tis about the EU gravy train. Money for old rope as our MEPs get paid for doing feck all by signing in on Monday morning and then buggering off for the day/week. Kathy Sinnott pops up threatening legal action.

A couple of LOL moments as various MEPs turn and make a run for it when they see the camera.

Mike.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

A couple of LOL moments as various MEPs turn and make a run for it when they see the camera.

that was pretty awesome

Scofflaw

Good Lord...elected representatives overcharging their expenses and taking money for doing nothing...strangely familiar, strangely familiar. When are we due our annual bout of outrage over TD, Senate, and Council expenses? Also, how soon will we have an equally outraged report that some employees come in some days and do feck-all...?

...mind you, it does slightly tempt me to stand as an MEP!

cordially,
Scofflaw

mike65

Oh its old news - A tv series was made about same sort of carry on back in the early 90s after all - Gravy Train with Alexis Sayle

Mike.

desiredbard

marco_polo wrote: »

The link is blocked here at work which automatically has me suspicious as to its validity.

I take youtube is blocked for you as well then
Its the dutch version of youtube, the Aholes always have to reinvent the weel.
I'll see if i can rip and post on youtube anyway.

This relates in the same way to lisbon as the fact that any future expansion with turkey relates to it.

You cant see these treaties as independent.
The Lads and lessies in Brussels have nickers that either need to be dried or seem to small at their toughts of Turkey joining the EU


As Brussels shows now they have no respect for the voice of its people or to say at least the people of the smaller member states. No matter what their nationality is.

They cannot be trusted:
An overwhelming part of them voted against disclosure of the going on on finances renumeration and claims.

A treaty that needed to be carried by ALL memberstates is still continuing to be ratified eventhough there is no hope in Hell that ALL countries will ratify it and the EU made a U turn on the way it said it would operate.

What guarantees are there black on white regarding issues where Irish law does not fully comply with other european member states'?

I mean the above already outlines that words from Brussels are just not good enough.


Of course the "lady" representing Ireland would have voted yes, its her job and her chance to make money for a job she is NOT doing.

mike65 wrote: »

Oh its old news - A tv series was made about same sort of carry on back in the early 90s after all - Gravy Train with Alexis Sayle

Mike.

Old news?
Nope 3 or 4 months
There were articles in the Indo and Times about the vote on nodsisclosure mentioned above.

ixtlan

I'm not sure if this is bad protocol to repost a post, but since the last thread faded away without further discussion...
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055322740

If this is the same video (can't get it at work) then the lady did NOT vote for Lisbon, as I expect it is Kathy Sinnot?

This makes me angry on several levels.

Firstly there is the fraud involved. To be honest though we have all know that this goes on. I am strongly pro-EU and pro-Lisbon, and would never see this kind of fraud as a reason to vote no, especially since the fraud is usually at the national level, and hence up to each country to resolve rather than to blame the EU.

Secondly it brings back my general anger at being misled/deceived/ignorant of Kathy Sinnot's EU policy when she was elected. I voted for her at the time because she was a strong advocate of the rights of the disabled and those less fortunate, and I expected her to use the EU institutions to force the Irish government to do the right thing. This would have involved giving up more sovereignty. Therefore it was much to my dismay to find her joining the fringe Independence and Democracy group, which is determined to take power away from the EU. It dismayed me even further to find her face staring at me from posters proclaiming the great evil of the Lisbon treaty.

Now I am angry at the hippocracy which appears to be involved here. For those who don't watch the video, it is a German prime-time like programme which is exposing those MEPs signing up for attendence at the EU parliament at 7am in the morning, carrying suitcases and obviously intending to leave immediately for their home countries.

We cannot say for certain what Kathy was going to do. However the facts as shown on the video are: She was signing up at 7am, with a packed travelling suitcase. When asked whether she was leaving and still claiming the attendance allowance she said "Be very careful about using this and what you report about me. I have worked seven hours already which is almost a whole shift." The voiceover considers this a threat of legal action and comments that the allowance is not meant for night work, but is for actually attending the parliament.

Now, let me be somewhat kinder to Kathy. I am sure that she believes in her attitude to the EU and Lisbon. I am sure that she works very hard and puts in more hours in total than required. I am sure that she is very busy and may not be able to attend the parliament.

However that does not make defrauding EU taxpayers right, if that was what was happening. From her response it is strongly implied that she believed what she was doing was wrong. Even if she worked all night she is not entitled to the money unless she attends the parliament, and I have serious questions as to her effectiveness in Europe if she is indeed staying up all night. I'm also annoyed at her threat towards a journalist who was trying to make the EU more open and accountable, a goal that she would in public be saying she agrees with.

What I would like is for this to be escalated so that she makes some kind of statement, either explaining that she did attend that day in the parliament, or apologising for wrongly taking the money. I would also like her to name and shame any other Irish MEPs who have done the same thing. Indeed I'd like every one of them to make statements on whether they have done this in the past, and whether they would do it again.

I don't really want to let this go. It's up to us as Irish citizens to make sure that our MEPs are following the rules... or at least it is when it thrown right at me for comment. Should we start a petition? All try to send e-mails to Kathy? Send e-mails to her parliamentary group which complains all the time about EU fraud?

So, there it is. Comments?

Ix.

mike65

desiredbard I mean old news in that the EU has been a free-for-all since it began if you work within the system.

Mike.

desiredbard

ixtlan wrote: »

A lot worthwile reading but to much to quote.

Well as you are a yesvoter I have some questions
What is your opinion on the whole hush hush matter on this issue in Brussels
What is your stance on the lack of respect in Brussel for Ireland iaw the U TURN on ALL countries have to rattify this treaty but eventhough this is no longer possible we continue anyway..

Do you really think that Ireland and the rights of the Irish are going to be homoured by some bigoted (euro)politicians.

Yes I agree every politician anywehere , as soon as they get their arse in the leather, starts lining their pockets. Fail Gael Fein whatever, If they have not its only because the have not been in Government/Brussel yet.

However as you say it is up to the voters to address them stop them reprimand them.

And Brussels shows what a farce these equaly divided rights between memberstates actually are. Fat Barstard, I mean Cowen, hid his head in one of his chins and did not dare to speak up/out in brussels about what the Irish decided, and that w@#!$3r is elected to represent you?

(Dont get me started on the Dutch prime minister who denied the dutchtheir referendum the second time around and was one of the first to shout that he was going ahead with implementation anyway after Irelands NO vote was official, actually come to think of it ...before it.... the same bollox that on the first referendum would not acknowledge an up to 15% majority on NO as binding in the European constitution..... it was 17% heheheheh)

I actually hope that LisbonII, yes we all know they will try to force it down our throats a second time, gets voted down even harder.
By simple fact of 1st Ref yes voters actually smelling the roses and see that Irelands vote, Irelands say IS and WILL NOT be respected

ixtlan

desiredbard wrote: »

Well as you are a yesvoter I have some questions
What is your opinion on the whole hush hush matter on this issue in Brussels

As I mentioned I was very disappointed in this.

However my anger is not specifically directed at Brussels. A common thread in discussions about the EU and Lisbon is that Brusels is doing this... or they are trying to force us to do this...or they are guilty of wastage or fraud.

Here is an example where it is not them, but us. It is one of our MEPs.

We are the EU. If the EU has problems, it is us who have to resolve them. In this case it's a person supporting your view of the EU and Lisbon, who wanted a NO vote last time, and presumably will want a NO vote next time. A person who is part of a Euro-skeptic grouping in the parliament which deplores EU fraud.

desiredbard wrote: »

What is your stance on ...

If I respond to this it will mean that the topic of the thread, namely the fraud being perpetrated by our MEPs will not get discussed. There are many threads discussing the issues you have raised, or you can start a new one if you wish.

I really would like to take this as far as I can. If I get some e-mail addresses would people be willing to start an e-mail campaign?

Ix.

desiredbard

ixtlan wrote: »

I really would like to take this as far as I can. If I get some e-mail addresses would people be willing to start an e-mail campaign?

Ix.

Hmm unclear on the YES NO and respect for vote outcome yet ...but

OK Maybe it would be an idea for people to spam on their own account if the send to addresses wouold be easely listed.

I dont see much in a chainmail there I walk around with 5 bulges in my pocket ...four from all the lottery money I am winning these days ..and the fifth from the discount Viagra ...not to mention that typing is very hard..i can hardly lift my arms withg the weight of those rolexes.

By all means tell them ...but the best way is to make them feel ...by not voting for them...or with them.
No transparency of what we are paying for .... no confidence/agreements on anything.

You dont buy from a vendor who is known to be in disrespute
You dont sign a contract if you dont fully understand it.

And though the idea of a constitution/lisbon is good the way in which it is going to be implemented is not. Neither is the way its forced upon people.
And I hope that the next time around some yes voters will see that if not halted Europe and the people ruling it can do as pleases

ixtlan

desiredbard wrote: »

By all means tell them ...but the best way is to make them feel ...by not voting for them...or with them.

Remember that in this case the MEP is a NO supporter, so that logic would compell you to support Lisbon?

I joke of course but my point is that the actions of individual MEPs or other Yes/No groups should not convince you one way or the other.

Ix.

Scofflaw

In the more general context of EU funds and fraud: Stormont depts criticised over misuse of EU funds. That's actually where "EU fraud" originates - in the national accounts.

cordially,
Scofflaw

eihcir23

Indeed, i remember looking at the EU accounts one evening and being surprised that a) how little fraud there was and b) that it was mostly a national thing.

OTOH, the Lisbon treaty is evil and must be destroyed. (After Cicero)

Moriarty

Threads merged.

ixtlan

I've sent this text to Kathy, at
kathysinnott@iol.ie
kathy.sinnott@europarl.europa.eu

and I've sent it with some preamble to
ind-dem@europarl.europa.eu

That's a start. I may send to some of the other Irish MEPs also.

Please feel free to do the same. I'd rather you did not cut and paste, or spam, as then it may look like it's the work of one person. Write a reasoned, considered e-mail. Ask for a response, and ideally, include your name and address so that the people reading can see that you are genuine.

Ix.
====================================================
Dear Kathy,

Being as you are my local MEP I was extremely concerned to watch this video, which apparently shows you claiming an allowance for attendance of the EU parliament, while apparently intending to immediately depart the building at 7am in the morning. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnMtc_QJ4-E

Even worse, you then implicitly threaten the reporter attempting to get your response with legal action "Be very careful about using this and what you report about me." Your claim that you have already worked 7 hours that day (even if true) does not absolve you of the requirement to attend the parliament. Taking the money without attendance is fraud, and the threat towards the reporter shows contempt for the principles of openness and transparency in the EU which I had up to now believed you held dear.

What I would like is for you to do, as my representative, is explain exactly what happened that day. Did you attend the parliament? When did you leave? Why did you threaten the reporter? Also, have you claimed such invalid allowances in the past? Will you claim them in the future? Do you think this is acceptable? Have other Irish MEPs been doing the same? If so, will you name and shame them?

I could have just let this slide. I understand that you work hard in Europe and Ireland for those causes you believe in. However if you believe the rules are wrong or that your normal salary as an MEP is insufficient, then you need to work on changing these things. It's not right for you to cheat because you and others think that it's OK. You are bringing the entire EU and the European parliament into disrepute and further alienating the public against politicians in general.

Please respond in some manner. I am also going to seek a response from several other relevant parties including your parliamentary colleagues, the Ind/Dem group.

Best regards,
Full name and address...

mike65

RTE talking about this right now - Myles Dungan talking to Kathy Sinnott.

It'll be on http://www.rte.ie/radio1/todaywithpatkenny/ later

Mike.

ixtlan

mike65 wrote: »

RTE talking about this right now - Myles Dungan talking to Kathy Sinnott.

It'll be on http://www.rte.ie/radio1/todaywithpatkenny/ later

Mike.

Wow, I sent an e-mail to liveline this morning. Must be a co-incidence though. Can you summarise Kathy's response?

Ix.

mike65

http://dynamic.rte.ie/quickaxs/209-rte-todaywithpatkenny-Wednesday.smil

I did'nt hear all of it, she said she is fully in agreement with transparency, she said she'd been at work in her office since the previous day (working through the night) so thats why she was bag-in-hand as she signed and saying the chap with the camera/mic was being a bit hostile but also saying he should'nt have been kicked out of the building.

Mike.

petermcqueen

eihcir23 wrote: »

Indeed, i remember looking at the EU accounts one evening and being surprised that a) how little fraud there was

I did not know there was a "EU Fraud" figure printed in the EU accounts.

Also I assume you refer to the accounts that no one will or has touched for the last 13 years.

ixtlan

mike65 wrote: »

http://dynamic.rte.ie/quickaxs/209-rte-todaywithpatkenny-Wednesday.smil

I did'nt hear all of it, she said she is fully in agreement with transparency, she said she'd been at work in her office since the previous day (working through the night) so thats why she was bag-in-hand as she signed and saying the chap with the camera/mic was being a bit hostile but also saying he should'nt have been kicked out of the building.

Mike.

I hope she was given a hard time. It really does not matter how many hours she works. She can work 24 hours a day 7 days a week. She is still not entitled to that allowance unless she attends the parliament. To take the money even if she believes she has done enough hours is fraud. If she thinks otherwise then she should be demanding that the allowance be removed and that the MEP salary be increased to compensate. Anyhow, I would have to question her efficiency as an MEP if she often works through the night.

Also, I want her response on why she threated the reporter. Was he hostile? Not really. It was akin to those prime time specials where the reporter chases the criminals as they run away. In those cases are the reporters hostile? Perhaps, but it's a kind of hostile that we as the public want. We want people to answer for their actions. It seems in this case she agrees with transparency unless it affects her actions.

EDIT: I'll leave the previous text here as I'm not re-writing history. I was quite unfair to Kathy. See post #30.
Ix.

thehighground

ixtlan wrote: »

I hope she was given a hard time. It really does not matter how many hours she works. She can work 24 hours a day 7 days a week. She is still not entitled to that allowance unless she attends the parliament. To take the money even if she believes she has done enough hours is fraud. If she thinks otherwise then she should be demanding that the allowance be removed and that the MEP salary be increased to compensate. Anyhow, I would have to question her efficiency as an MEP if she often works through the night.

Also, I want her response on why she threated the reporter. Was he hostile? Not really. It was akin to those prime time specials where the reporter chases the criminals as they run away. In those cases are the reporters hostile? Perhaps, but it's a kind of hostile that we as the public want. We want people to answer for their actions. It seems in this case she agrees with transparency unless it affects her actions.

Ix.

Perhaps you might listen to the interview first which addresses your 'concerns' before inflicting the rest of us with the rubbish you've just written.

ixtlan

thehighground wrote: »

Perhaps you might listen to the interview first which addresses your 'concerns' before inflicting the rest of us with the rubbish you've just written.

Ok, you are right. Since I have not heard the interview my comments are conjecture.

Since I am at work I cannot access the stream.

Because of your comment I would guess that Kathy says she did attend the parliament that day but had simply packed to be ready to leave? If so I might soften my stance a little. However even if she says that, I might like proof that she really did attend. Also, it would then be completely perplexing as to why she behaved as she did to the reporter. Why did she not say, "I am attending the parliament?"

Anyhow, I know I should shut up until I hear what she actually said, but sometimes it's too tempting to reply...

ix.

Scofflaw

petermcqueen wrote: »

I did not know there was a "EU Fraud" figure printed in the EU accounts.

Also I assume you refer to the accounts that no one will or has touched for the last 13 years.

The EU accounts are signed off every year, and every year meet the standards applied to commercial and government accounts. Fraud is less than 1% of the EU budget of €116bn, the majority of which arises in the payments passed over to national governments, and the majority of which is recovered every year.

The myth arises from the fact that the EU has set itself an additional 'compliance' test - that everything is paid on time, every invoice properly signed, every amount paid correctly, the best and cheapest suppliers always chosen, etc. There is no other company or government in the world that has set itself such a target, which may or may not be reachable.

The Court of Auditors has given last year, as it did in previous years, a clean bill of health on the EU accounts. The Court confirms these accounts faithfully reflect how the EU budget was spent.

The Court also gives a separate opinion on whether all payments have been correctly processed, i.e. paid on time, the invoice properly signed, amounts paid correctly, whether the best and cheapest suppliers have been chosen, etc. The Court says it can only give positive assurance on some spending, not on the whole budget, as it has found errors in some of the payments under scrutiny.

Most of the errors found by the Court concerned EU funds under national management.

This article - Stormont depts criticised over misuse of EU funds - is typical of where most "EU" accounts irregularities arise.

regards,
Scofflaw

ixtlan

OK,

I've listened to Kathy's reponse on radio and then to her response to the youtube video, here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvcICF5rx_o&feature=related

I think apologies are in order from me, although in my defense I would add some comments.

The main issue seems to one of interpretation of the expenses system. Kathy is of the opinion that night work qualifies as valid work hours to claim an allowance for the day, regardless of whether the parliament itself is attended while in session. The German news report disagrees. I don't have a definite answer to that but some cursary searching on the web indicates that the rules are probably vague enough that Kathy is correct. From an ethical point of view she would appear to be fine, since I take her at her word that she spoke in the parliament the previous day, and worked all evening and during the night (though I still have reservations about how efficient that can be). She also says that the interview was selectively edited, which I have no reason to doubt. On the matter of the other MEPs she points out that even if they don't work, their presence at the parliament the previous day has meant that many of them cannot get a flight home, and therefore there is a certain logic in claiming the allowance. She adds though that she herself would never do this unless she had worked.

That brings me to my next point, which is that I was caught in a trap here of righteous anger at an apparent abuse of funds. I attributed too much weight to the German report without getting a response from the other side. However it's worth noting that my response was probably atypical of a pro-EU Lisbon supporter. Most critical comments on the YouTube video appear to come from Euro-skeptic UK people, congratulating Ireland on the Lisbon no vote. Kathy, although obviously treated unfairly here, has promoted such a Euro-skeptic view in Ireland, and those Euro-skeptics in Ireland will now be very willing to jump to such conclusions as I did, while most likely not following through to a different viewpoint as I have done.

Ix.

free-man

ixtlan wrote: »

OK,

I've listened to Kathy's reponse on radio and then to her response to the youtube video, here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvcICF5rx_o&feature=related

I think apologies are in order from me, although in my defense I would add some comments.

The main issue seems to one of interpretation of the expenses system. Kathy is of the opinion that night work qualifies as valid work hours to claim an allowance for the day, regardless of whether the parliament itself is attended while in session. The German news report disagrees. I don't have a definite answer to that but some cursary searching on the web indicates that the rules are probably vague enough that Kathy is correct. From an ethical point of view she would appear to be fine, since I take her at her word that she spoke in the parliament the previous day, and worked all evening and during the night (though I still have reservations about how efficient that can be). She also says that the interview was selectively edited, which I have no reason to doubt. On the matter of the other MEPs she points out that even if they don't work, their presence at the parliament the previous day has meant that many of them cannot get a flight home, and therefore there is a certain logic in claiming the allowance. She adds though that she herself would never do this unless she had worked.

That brings me to my next point, which is that I was caught in a trap here of righteous anger at an apparent abuse of funds. I attributed too much weight to the German report without getting a response from the other side. However it's worth noting that my response was probably atypical of a pro-EU Lisbon supporter. Most critical comments on the YouTube video appear to come from Euro-skeptic UK people, congratulating Ireland on the Lisbon no vote. Kathy, although obviously treated unfairly here, has promoted such a Euro-skeptic view in Ireland, and those Euro-skeptics in Ireland will now be very willing to jump to such conclusions as I did, while most likely not following through to a different viewpoint as I have done.

Ix.

Would have to agree with all the above with one exception...

No matter how much hate mail she received she should not have posted up the mailers private email address for the world to see. How hard is it to blur this out?