Joining the CIAT, Procedures, Tips, Advice.

topcatcbr

Post here for info on Joining the CIAT

topcatcbr

Here are some usefull links to start

Info on becoming a member

Booklet

Membership Progression

Just a start

No6

For knowledge maps of your Irish course email Tara Pickles tara@ciat.org.uk (Education & Research Director) If you're only starting out email immediately as I don't know how long it takes (yet) This will give you some exemptions from underpinning Knowledge sections of some of the modules ( a litle less work!!)

If you can find 10 people who would be available for a pop record work shop James Banks james@ciat.org.uk will come over to give it. There was one in Dublin at the start of the month, its failry general but I learned a few things like knowledge map thing above, I had assumed in my Irish wisdom that as our fabulous courses are unrecognised by CIAT we had to do the pop record as if we were completely unqualified... James put me straight on that so really the only real difference between us and recognised courses is that the people from those courses know what they are exempt in from the start!!! and we have to ask for the knowledge map to be done!!

Another tip tomorrow (or next week!!)

RKQ

Very informative No.6.
Is the Knowledge map based on sylabus for each year of the course or the course itself? ( Courses change and grow over the years)

Is the Knowledge map free to Profile members?
How long do you have to be in CIAT to get a map done.

The South East is crying out for pop record workshop.

Keep up the good work.

No6

RKQ if you can get 10 or more (about 20 to allow for drop outs!!) people to confirm they would definately attend ask James Banks to come over. I'm not sure about the knowledge mapping in terms of how long it takes, probably a while as they'll have to get in touch with your college and probably get the sylabus for the relevant years, I imagine!! Its free (they're not the OS ) and as soon as you have a membership number ask for one to be done, then start your performance sections of your pop and by the time you've that done it may be ready!! I know a guy who completed his TCIAT pop record in a weekend so if you go that fast it probably will not be ready.:eek:

topcatcbr

No6 wrote: »

RKQ if you can get 10 or more (about 20 to allow for drop outs!!) people to confirm they would definately attend ask James Banks to come over. I'm not sure about the knowledge mapping in terms of how long it takes, probably a while as they'll have to get in touch with your college and probably get the sylabus for the relevant years, I imagine!! Its free (they're not the OS ) and as soon as you have a membership number ask for one to be done, then start your performance sections of your pop and by the time you've that done it may be ready!! I know a guy who completed his TCIAT pop record in a weekend so if you go that fast it probably will not be ready.:eek:

Count me in

Slig

As I am not self employed, I would assume that the ACIAT is the profile I would fit best. The list of qualifications seem to require me to have a degree in Arch Tech. I only have a Diploma from WIT am I still eligable? and does anybody have any recommendations on who to contact.

archtech

Slig wrote: »

As I am not self employed, I would assume that the ACIAT is the profile I would fit best. The list of qualifications seem to require me to have a degree in Arch Tech. I only have a Diploma from WIT am I still eligable? and does anybody have any recommendations on who to contact.

you should qualify for ACIAT, depending on the length of experience (less than 10 years) you might have to progress to TCIAT first and then onto MCIAT, however you can use the information in the Technician POP record towards your MCIAT

sydthebeat

No6 wrote: »

RKQ if you can get 10 or more (about 20 to allow for drop outs!!) people to confirm they would definately attend ask James Banks to come over. I'm not sure about the knowledge mapping in terms of how long it takes, probably a while as they'll have to get in touch with your college and probably get the sylabus for the relevant years, I imagine!! Its free (they're not the OS ) and as soon as you have a membership number ask for one to be done, then start your performance sections of your pop and by the time you've that done it may be ready!! I know a guy who completed his TCIAT pop record in a weekend so if you go that fast it probably will not be ready.:eek:

count me in too

topcatcbr

Applied on the 26 june. Just got my associate cert today. sent email to Tara Pickles to orgonise knowladge map. I will keep you informed.

No6

Fair play Topcatbcr well done. You can now call yourself an ACIAT us poor profile members have no designation!!

RKQ

Well done Topcatcbr... keep us updated.:D
CIAT would seem to be on the ball and very dedicated to its members.

TaraP

Hi all. Please note that the educational establishments must undertake the mapping exercise as part of their application for either Accreditation of Honours Degrees or Approval of other qualifications. If the educational establishment is not Approved or Accredited, no POP Record exemptions will be granted. I do not do the mapping - as I said, that's up to the educational establishments. If there's anything else, please feel free to contact me on tara@ciat.org.uk

Poor Uncle Tom

Can an entire office join or is it individual membership only. I only ask as we are all joining.

TaraP

You can join under the 'Group Membership Scheme'. Please find the information in the 'Becoming a Member' booklet, see link: http://www.ciat.org.uk/en/other/document_summary.cfm/docid/38C36A77-CC64-47A0-B14453391AA9B01A

RKQ

Hi TaraP, as the educational establishments must undertake the mapping exercise as part of their application for either Accreditation of Honours Degrees or Approval of other qualifications.

Would these educational establishments have "maps" on file for past students - going back 22 years?

I have a number of friends, (past pupils / classmates) that are members of CIAT. Having done the same course, is it of any help i.e CIAT would already have a record of the course subjects etc for that year.

sydthebeat

Does anyone know if a diploma in architectural technology from bolton street (1999) would achieve a TCIAT status straight away?

plus, does anyone know if the TCIAT memebrship level is acceptable to financial institutions / law society in order to certify compliance with planning & building regs?

cheers

Supertech

1. Pretty Sure it wouldn't without at least completing Technician POP Record (open to correction)
2. No - only MCIAT acceptable to financial institutions as TCIAT not eligible to Practice on their own account.
As far as I am aware, no official recognition given to any level of CIAT membership (or any other Technician Organisation) by Law Society as yet.

sydthebeat

Supertech wrote: »

1. Pretty Sure it wouldn't without at least completing Technician POP Record (open to correction)
2. No - only MCIAT acceptable to banks as TCIAT not eligible to Practice on their own account

2. what if im not in self emplyment but part of a non registered practise?

just seeing your edit...

AIB has included CIAT membership as part of accepted qualification, so they may be accpeted by the law society.

Thanks!!

Supertech

The restriction comes from the CIAT and not from the banks / Law Society.
Maybe they 'll clarify, but as far as I am aware, only MCIAT are recognised as eligible to certify -again - open to correction.
In CIAT terminology, Technician members are those who chose to work under the supervision of another building professional, and, I would deduce from that that Technician members are deemed ineligible to certify.
Other than that, it's the same as before, each bank (except one) and solicitors office will decide who they'll accept certificates from based on their knowledge of the practice, and the length of time they have been in practice.
Are you certifying at present ?

sydthebeat

at the moment, my employer is having hassle. He has been self employed for nearly 20 years, signing off was part and parcel of the services he provided, but obviously the AIB (and now IIB) situations are opening a can of worms.

i am hoping that TCIAT membership (if i get it) will afford me the opportunity to sign certs.

Supertech

Hope it works out for you. Better clarify that your practice's Professional Indemnity Insurance specifically covers you to sign off aswell .... This is also one of the requirements (on the AIB form at least)

topcatcbr

I have downloaded the POP document. and at first glance it looks a daunting prospect. 101 pages. Im going on hols soon so i think ill leave it until i return.

No6

sydthebeat wrote: »

at the moment, my employer is having hassle. He has been self employed for nearly 20 years, signing off was part and parcel of the services he provided, but obviously the AIB (and now IIB) situations are opening a can of worms.

i am hoping that TCIAT membership (if i get it) will afford me the opportunity to sign certs.

Syd, have a look at the MCIAT membership and see if you are elligible for that (its only a few more modules!!) , MCIAT can be employed or self employed and can sign for the AIB, don't know about IIB. Your employer should consider going down the resigtration route himself if he's 20 years in buisness. CIAT have not got Law Society Recognition for certificates of Compliance yet but are working on it I believe.

Tara I was led to believe that the mapping could be done, I didnt realise it involved the Educational Establishments actually looking for accreditation themselves. Can you let us know how many Irish Courses are acvitely looking for accreditation and which courses they are. I too am a prehistoric graduate (not as bad as RKQ but not too far away!!) I recently looked for my results from my college and all they had was my overall result, not subjects or Modules, Should I just assume there is no mapping for me and proceed on the basis I'm not exempt from anything?:eek:

Membership@CIAT

Hi Sydthebeat,

The diploma would make you eligible for Associate (ACIAT) membership, as long as you are not offering services/self employed. You would then need to prove your professional competency via the the Technician POP Record, before attaining TCIAT qualification.

Please note you will need to be MCIAT to sign off final certification. For further clarification, please contact practice@ciat.org.uk, who will be happy to clarify the specifics.

James - Membership Dept - CIAT

sydthebeat

Membership@CIAT wrote: »

Hi Sydthebeat,

The diploma would make you eligible for Associate (ACIAT) membership, as long as you are not offering services/self employed. You would then need to prove your professional competency via the the Technician POP Record, before attaining TCIAT qualification.

Please note you will need to be MCIAT to sign off final certification. For further clarification, please contact practice@ciat.org.uk, who will be happy to clarify the specifics.

James - Membership Dept - CIAT

thank you very much for this clarification James..... time to get the application away i think.

Membership@CIAT

If anyone requires POP Record guidance, please feel free to contact me.
Tel: 020 7278 2206
Email: james@ciat.org.uk

For those who are already CIAT members, there are four example units (B, H, I and N) on the Members only section on the CIAT website, in the POP Record downloads section. See link: http://www.ciat.org.uk/en/members/members_only/pop_record_downloads.cfm

topcatcbr

I think this is becoming a very usefull thread

TaraP

RKQ wrote: »

Hi TaraP, as the educational establishments must undertake the mapping exercise as part of their application for either Accreditation of Honours Degrees or Approval of other qualifications.

Would these educational establishments have "maps" on file for past students - going back 22 years?

I have a number of friends, (past pupils / classmates) that are members of CIAT. Having done the same course, is it of any help i.e CIAT would already have a record of the course subjects etc for that year.

Hi RKQ. Unless the educational establishment has ever been Approved/Accredited then I doubt they would have mapped to CIAT's professional standards or the QAA Benchmark statement for Architectural Technology. Remember the mapping is to gain certain exemptions for the POP Records - if you have an AT-related qualification you can still join CIAT as an Associate (ACIAT) but would have to complete all of the POP Record.

TaraP

No6 wrote: »

Syd, have a look at the MCIAT membership and see if you are elligible for that (its only a few more modules!!) , MCIAT can be employed or self employed and can sign for the AIB, don't know about IIB. Your employer should consider going down the resigtration route himself if he's 20 years in buisness. CIAT have not got Law Society Recognition for certificates of Compliance yet but are working on it I believe.

Tara I was led to believe that the mapping could be done, I didnt realise it involved the Educational Establishments actually looking for accreditation themselves. Can you let us know how many Irish Courses are acvitely looking for accreditation and which courses they are. I too am a prehistoric graduate (not as bad as RKQ but not too far away!!) I recently looked for my results from my college and all they had was my overall result, not subjects or Modules, Should I just assume there is no mapping for me and proceed on the basis I'm not exempt from anything?:eek:

Hi No6. What qualification do you have? If you look at the front of the TCIAT POP Record it will show exemptions for certain standard qualifications e.g. HND in Building Studies, NVQ in AT etc. If it's a BSc or BSc Hons then they are mapped individually by the college/university because their structure and content will vary from institute to institute. It would be a big task for me to do all of that for each accredited or approved institute so we ask them to do it and we will then review it. Certain qualifications are approved by the relevant qualifications authority (NQAI in ROI, QCA in England, SQA in Scotland) so each institute offering a particular qualification will have the same content and structure so that is much easier in terms of mapping it to our requirements. Unfortunately we have no approved courses in Ireland yet so the BSc or Hons programmes won't gain you any exemptions. THIS DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN'T JOIN CIAT AS ACIAT AND DO THE POP RECORD!!!

sydthebeat

TaraP, just to clarify... when i qualified from Bolton Street DIT in 1999, the course wasnt accrediated by the CIAT? is that correct?

TaraP

sydthebeat wrote: »

TaraP, just to clarify... when i qualified from Bolton Street DIT in 1999, the course wasnt accrediated by the CIAT? is that correct?

Hi Syd
No Irish course has ever been approved or accredited by CIAT unfortunately. CIAT has endeavoured to promote Accreditation and Approval in Ireland and as you probably know we have a very active regional centre there but no Irish Institute has ever applied to us for Accreditation or Approval.

sydthebeat

Thank you for the swift response Tara...

thats disappointing form from the universities.

Supertech

There seems to be a lack of engagement from universities / Institutes of Technology in general with all accrediting organisations - only 2 RIAI accredited Architectural Technology courses in the country.

Supertech

TaraP wrote: »

Hi Syd
No Irish course has ever been approved or accredited by CIAT unfortunately. CIAT has endeavoured to promote Accreditation and Approval in Ireland and as you probably know we have a very active regional centre there but no Irish Institute has ever applied to us for Accreditation or Approval.

Tara isn't there some question that the CIAT does not believe that Irish 3 year courses do not meet the standard of the equivalent 3 year course in the UK ? I have heard this on numerous occasions over the past 2 years and wondered if it's true ?

No6

Tara I have a Diploma and Ordinary degree (level 7 NQAI as far as I know) but they do predate the NQAI by a few years!! Can they be mapped. I will look at the TCIAT pop record, I havn't so far as I'm already a profile member going straight to MCIAT (self Employed) But I know there are number of people of my vintage on older who have recently joined or are seriously considering joining. I also would like to thank yourself and James for posting here, its great to see an institute like CIAT engaging with its members and prospective members in such a proactive way.:D

RKQ

RKQ wrote: »

Hi TaraP,
Would these educational establishments have "maps" on file for past students - going back 22 years? Waterford Institute of Technology.

I have a number of friendsthat are members of CIAT. Having done the same course, is it of any help to me as CIAT would already have a record of the course subjects etc for those years.

I agree with No.6.
Nice to you see Tara and James actively engaging with members (and potential members like me) of CIAT on this forum.:)

muffler

RKQ wrote: »

Nice to you see Tara and James actively engaging with members (and potential members like me) of CIAT on this forum.:)

It is indeed a welcomed development and nice to see a bit of interaction here as it eliminates all the speculation and gets the answers directly from the source.

TaraP

Supertech wrote: »

Tara isn't there some question that the CIAT does not believe that Irish 3 year courses do not meet the standard of the equivalent 3 year course in the UK ? I have heard this on numerous occasions over the past 2 years and wondered if it's true ?

Hi Supertech. CIAT cannot recognise the Irish courses as being equivalent to the Honours Degrees in UK as the NQAI (Irish regulators) has mapped it to BSc (i.e. NOT Honours) Degree level which would equate to entry to progress to TCIAT grade. Therefore it is not CIAT who has made the decision not to recognise the courses - the NQAI would have carried out a recognition/equivalence exercise and decided that the BSc in ROI is Level 7. Level 8 is required by CIAT for entry onto MCIAT grade. This is a condition of our Royal Charter.

TaraP

In response to RKQ and No6 - if your course has not been approved by CIAT then there is no real point in mapping it to our standards. When CIAT approves or accredits universities or colleges we look at more than just the course content. We look at facilities, staff, learning experience to name but a few things. The mapping will allow exemptions to the POP record - but only if the course is approved or accredited. So if the course is not approved, you will have to complete the whole POP record anyway so mapping would be a bit of a futile exercise at this point. As long as you have an AT-related qualification then you will be fine to join as ACIAT to progress to TCIAT then MCIAT if you want.

Glad you appreciate James and I posting here - it's also useful for us to see what issues you have and we can address a wider audience. We feel strongly about helping members in Ireland and trying to increase membership which will in turn improve recognition of the Institute but more importantly, the discipline of Architectural Technology. The more support we get - the more support we can offer. Cheers all.

RKQ

Communication is so important.
CIAT is the only organisation in Ireland, to communicate directly with its Architectural Technician / Technology members or potential members.

Such attempts to help and communicate, at a national level are very welcome.
This communication will no doubt help people to decide on which organisation to join.

Supermouser

As far as I know few courses in UK match any of thr Irish.
Some don't even have a drawing element???????????????
Well that's the way it was a number of years ago.
They are very diverse.
Don't know how CIAT can validate such a mixed bunch.

Supermouser

This is as about an obscure place to have a discussion as you could find.

I was told it existed but had to get a link to find it.

Didn't think Rec was a place for this under Home and Garden! ! ! ! ???

muffler

Supermouser wrote: »

They are very diverse.
Don't know how CIAT can validate such a mixed bunch.

I have no idea what your point is. Maybe explain it a bit more.

Supermouser wrote: »

This is as about an obscure place to have a discussion as you could find.

I was told it existed but had to get a link to find it.

Didn't think Rec was a place for this under Home and Garden! ! ! ! ???

Had I known you were on your way I would have put out some directional and welcome signs :rolleyes:

If you feel that the forum is in the wrong place then start a thread in the feedback forum about it. Now stay on topic please.

pseudo-tech

TARAP, Will the CIAT continue to have discussions with the LAw Society in Ireland with the view to them accepting Certificates of Compliance from MCIAT members?

TaraP

Supermouser wrote: »

As far as I know few courses in UK match any of thr Irish.
Some don't even have a drawing element???????????????
Well that's the way it was a number of years ago.
They are very diverse.
Don't know how CIAT can validate such a mixed bunch.

Not quite sure from where you source this information but I can reassure you that CIAT has rigorous guidelines for accreditation and all programmes must be mapped to the QAA Benchmark Statement for Architectural Technology, CIAT professional standards and CIC Graduate Learning Outcomes. More details can be found on our website or email me directly.

All programmes WILL differ in some way as each programme will have a USP depending on staff, facilities, regional location, industry input etc but the core themes critical to Architectural Technology will appear in every programme accredited by CIAT.

TaraP

pseudo-tech wrote: »

TARAP, Will the CIAT continue to have discussions with the LAw Society in Ireland with the view to them accepting Certificates of Compliance from MCIAT members?

Hi pseudo-tech. This isn't really within my remit but CIAT and its legal advisors are in contact with the Law Society in relation to Opinions of Compliance. My colleague dealing with this is off work for a couple of weeks but when she gets back I'll find out more from her.

pseudo-tech

Hi TaraP, I appreciate your quick response. The CIAT is starting to build up a lot of support here in Ireland due to the poor representation by other bodies. Keep up the good work and hopefully everyone over here will have the good sense and join the CIAT and add their support.

topcatcbr

Is there anyone interested in doing a pop record workshop. If we can get enough people we may be able to orgonise one.

pseudo-tech

Is it just I or does anyone else feel that the pop record is written in a form of English that is not in keeping with the Queen's English. We appreciate that we gave them Yeats, Wilde and Joyce to explain how the English language should be spoken but it is evident that the document was not prepared by someone whose first language is English. The need for a workshop is for explanation of what exactly they are looking for, not the quality or content of what is required. Do anyone else feel that this document should be reviewed/ rewritten to remove the confusion?

topcatcbr

pseudo-tech wrote: »

Is it just I or does anyone else feel that the pop record is written in a form of English that is not in keeping with the Queen's English. We appreciate that we gave them Yeats, Wilde and Joyce to explain how the English language should be spoken but it is evident that the document was not prepared by someone whose first language is English. The need for a workshop is for explanation of what exactly they are looking for, not the quality or content of what is required. Do anyone else feel that this document should be reviewed/ rewritten to remove the confusion?

I have to agree but i see they have added new examples on their site which may help.