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Euro 08 Top scorer question

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  • 26-06-2008 9:58pm
    #1
    Tusky
    Registered Users Posts: 17,065 ✭✭✭✭


    I have two questions. I placed a bet on Spain to win the tournament with David Villa top scorer. Villa currently has 4 goals, Padolski has 3, Klose & Ballack have 2.

    If Spain win on Sunday and Villa finishes the tournament joint top scorer, will my bet still be a winning one ?

    Secondly, when I went to check my betting slip for the odds I realized that they arent written on it. Is this unusual ?


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    #2
    keen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 987 ✭✭✭keen


    I forgot to put the oddds on a bet I placed tonight by mistake, don't think it matters they scan the barcode on your slip and it will know what the odds where when the bet was put on. Talking about PP


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    #3
    Tusky
    Registered Users Posts: 17,065 ✭✭✭✭Tusky


    keen wrote: »
    I forgot to put the oddds on a bet I placed tonight by mistake, don't think it matters they scan the barcode on your slip and it will know what the odds where when the bet was put on. Talking about PP

    Well theres no way for me to have known the odds as it was a winner + top scorer bet. Is it still the my responsibility to ask at the counter and write it down ?


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    #4
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,399 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    I assume that it was a bet that the bookmaker was actually offering, and not just something you made up yourself and wrote on a docket?.
    If its the former then they'll pay out at the odds that were being offered at the time, though they'll be entitled to make a dead-heat reduction to the bet if Villa is only joint top-scorer.

    If they weren't offering actual odds for this Spain/Villa combination, then they would be entitled to treat it as 2 singles (which may work in your favour obviously).


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    #5
    Healio
    Registered Users Posts: 2,825 ✭✭✭Healio


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    though they'll be entitled to make a dead-heat reduction to the bet if Villa is only joint top-scorer.

    Spot on.


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    #6
    Tusky
    Registered Users Posts: 17,065 ✭✭✭✭Tusky


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    I assume that it was a bet that the bookmaker was actually offering, and not just something you made up yourself and wrote on a docket?.
    If its the former then they'll pay out at the odds that were being offered at the time, though they'll be entitled to make a dead-heat reduction to the bet if Villa is only joint top-scorer.

    If they weren't offering actual odds for this Spain/Villa combination, then they would be entitled to treat it as 2 singles (which may work in your favour obviously).

    It was a bet than they were offering, I just didnt check the odds on the day. The way its written down, its clear that its one bet.

    How does dead-heat reduction work ?


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    #7
    callaway92
    Registered Users Posts: 14,610 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    I thought if you dont have the odds down they will give you the last odds that were available for him if he wins..Thats the way it is for Horses anyway :o


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    #8
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,399 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Tusky wrote: »
    How does dead-heat reduction work ?

    Assuming the odds of the combinded double are about 40/1, this would be made up of maybe 6/1 Spain and ~5/1 Villa. So the Villa half of the bet would become ~5/2.

    I'm only guessing at the 40/1 by the way, my gf cleverly threw out my Racing Post pullout so i don't know what sort of odds were being offered


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    #9
    Crumbs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭Crumbs


    No, it would be half the stake at the full odds.


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    #10
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,399 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Crumbs wrote: »
    No, it would be half the stake at the full odds.

    No this is wrong - because its a double and only one half of the double has deadheated. What you say would only apply if Villa deadheated and Spain also deadheated (match abandoned for some reason).

    Edit: 3/4 of the stake at full odds might be the way they'd do it if Spain win and Villa dheats.


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    #11
    Crumbs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭Crumbs


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    No this is wrong - because its a double and only one half of the double has deadheated. What you say would only apply if Villa deadheated and Spain also deadheated (match abandoned for some reason).

    Edit: 3/4 of the stake at full odds might be the way they'd do it.
    I'm never wrong.


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    #12
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,399 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Crumbs wrote: »
    I'm never wrong.


    I'll hold my hands up, you are right. I should stop answering threads whilst playing poker, my brain can't multi-task :)
    1/2 stake at full odds is how it would work if they applied dead-heat rules.

    *******
    As an aside...
    It seens a trifle unfair thinking about it as normally in a dead heat the bookie has to pay out on two results, whereas in this case they are unlikely to have taken a brass farthing on 'Spain to win, Podolski top scorer', in fact they may not have even priced it up.


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    #13
    Tusky
    Registered Users Posts: 17,065 ✭✭✭✭Tusky


    Thanks for the help guys. I suppose I just have to hope that Spain win & Padolski doesnt score! I think Villa is injured for the game.


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    #14
    Crumbs
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭Crumbs


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    As an aside...
    It seens a trifle unfair thinking about it as normally in a dead heat the bookie has to pay out on two results, whereas in this case they are unlikely to have taken a brass farthing on 'Spain to win, Podolski top scorer', in fact they may not have even priced it up.
    If Torres was to get a hattrick (lol, not bloody likely :)), then 'Spain to win, Torres top scorer' would be a more realistic showing of why the dead heat rule applies.

    And on the subject of Spain/Podolski, I think it's bad form the way bookies price up these special doubles. The related contingency of a bet like Spain/Villa or Spain/Torres means that it's fair to offer reduced odds rather than the accumulated odds of a straight double (example below). However, you'll never see a bookie offer increased odds for something like Spain/Podolski or Germany/Villa when they really should.

    Example: If Spain were 6/1 to win before the start of the tournament and Villa was 20/1 for top scorer, then those odds accumulate to 146/1. But the offer on 'Spain to win, Villa top scorer' was probably something like 40/1.

    Sucks that Villa is probably out injured. I'm on him at 20/1 for top scorer. :(


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    #15
    Tusky
    Registered Users Posts: 17,065 ✭✭✭✭Tusky


    Crumbs wrote: »
    If Torres was to get a hattrick (lol, not bloody likely :)), then 'Spain to win, Torres top scorer' would be a more realistic showing of why the dead heat rule applies.

    And on the subject of Spain/Podolski, I think it's bad form the way bookies price up these special doubles. The related contingency of a bet like Spain/Villa or Spain/Torres means that it's fair to offer reduced odds rather than the accumulated odds of a straight double (example below). However, you'll never see a bookie offer increased odds for something like Spain/Podolski or Germany/Villa when they really should.

    Example: If Spain were 6/1 to win before the start of the tournament and Villa was 20/1 for top scorer, then those odds accumulate to 146/1. But the offer on 'Spain to win, Villa top scorer' was probably something like 40/1.

    Sucks that Villa is probably out injured. I'm on him at 20/1 for top scorer. :(

    I had Spain to win with Torres top scorer at 17/1 before the tournament - pretty crappy odds.

    I also bet on Villa top scorer with Spain to win after the first game (in which he scored a hattrick) so I assume the odds arent great for that either.


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    #16
    Celtic67
    Closed Accounts Posts: 173 ✭✭Celtic67


    Tusky wrote: »
    Thanks for the help guys. I suppose I just have to hope that Spain win & Padolski doesnt score! I think Villa is injured for the game.

    I hope so too. I got Villa at 16/1 before the tournament.


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    #17
    adrndmond
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭adrndmond


    I got on this too a couple of weeks before the tournament.
    €5 on Villa & Spain @ 40/1


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    #18
    Kamaldihnio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 243 ✭✭Kamaldihnio


    The bet was 40/1 with paddy power at the beggining of the tournament. I have 10 euro on it. Fingers crossed it comes in, still a long way to go. Germany could win, Spain could win 4-3 and podolski could score 2 or klose a hatrick. Alot of possibilities. Might spend 100 on covering my bet, unsure.


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    #19
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,399 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Alls well that ends well. Nice one Tusky and Kamaldinho.


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    #20
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,303 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    Assuming the odds of the combinded double are about 40/1, this would be made up of maybe 6/1 Spain and ~5/1 Villa. So the Villa half of the bet would become ~5/2.

    I'm only guessing at the 40/1 by the way, my gf cleverly threw out my Racing Post pullout so i don't know what sort of odds were being offered
    callaway92 wrote: »
    I thought if you dont have the odds down they will give you the last odds that were available for him if he wins..Thats the way it is for Horses anyway :o

    If you don't have the odds down on the horse you get the SP, not the last available odds (which can be much lower due to in running if available)

    A bookies could do this with a football bet also if they wished, SP being the bet before tourney starts etc.


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    #21
    Kalashnikov_Kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 642 ✭✭✭Kalashnikov_Kid


    For all sporting bets you only get the price that is offered at the time, not BP or SP like the horsies.

    The reason why winner and top goalscorer odds are shorter than other double bets is because they are related bets i.e. Spain win so it is reasonable to presume that Torres or Villa are gonna have a better chance of being top goalscorer, so getting a 146/1 price or whatever would be pure madness from the bookies point of view!

    Its the same reason why you couldn't do a normal double bet on a team to win and a player to score anytime/score first, instead it would have to be placed as a single wincast/scorecast.


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