Torres getting subbed off!

gixerfixer

Boggles wrote: »

Your Right! Ronaldo ever day of the week, proven winner, Torrres (even with 3 r's) has won fúck all!

Arigones is a poor manager, apartently he only plays Torres because he is pressured to.

If he had any sort of bollix he would have made the decision last night of dropping him and playing Fabergas.

Ive been reading your comments over the last few weeks boogles and to be honest it's as plain as day that you are trolling to get a rise out of liverpool fans.I gave you the benifit of the doubt before because you said you where entitled to post on every thread etc....(even though you post on the liverpool thread more than Manchester united thread),but now you have proved otherwise that you are in fact just a **** and it's TBH very childish.People like you are the reason that most discussions on the soccer boards get turned into liverpool V Manchester United arguements when some people can see past the the dislike both sets of fans have for one another and just discuss a point without it turning into Torres is a **** or Gerrard has won **** all or Scholes is **** because he cant tackle etc......Grow the **** up lad,but i doubt you will so for now i'll be hitting the ignore button as it's the only way to deal with trolls.

Mr Alan

event wrote: »

Most people here criticised it but a lot of pool fans defended it, as babel scored. Whats the difference here lads?

First off, he was injured against Chelsea, which is why he was taken off.

Secondly, i think wat is annoying me personally is that the very people who would have criticised Rafa on the night about the change are now defending Aragones. they just want a pop at Torres/Rafa/whoever they can get their hands on.

gixerfixer

gixerfixer wrote: »

Do you watch football much at all? Completely stupid comment.Torres has played a blinder in the tournament

Im gonna ask you the same question. He was very poor last night and for me, overall, hasnt been great this tournament. Last night he missed a few sitters and didnt look like the player he looks at Anfield. He looks sulkier and has dived a fair bit also.

Also, there has been the suggestion before about him that he's best when he's the "big fish", ie not in a team full of stars. Now no disrespect to Liverpool, but take out Gerrard and Torres and you have a team of good players but not stars and Torres certainly is the "big fish" there now (along with Gerradr". In the Spain team he;s ONE OF the stars along with Villa, Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, Silva, Casillas etc etc


If this is something that affects him mentally then he needs to get past that.



NOTE: I think Torres is a super player BTW, Im just trying to be objective.

Boggles

gixerfixer wrote: »

but now you have proved otherwise that you are in fact just a ****

:eek::eek::eek:

gosplan

Villa is no1 as recently he has a better scoring record for Spain then Torres.

Everyone's seen Torres do the business for Lverpool this year but he hasn't exactly set the Euro's alight. Fresh legs last night were needed to put Russia away so Guiza came on.

To be honest though I wouldn't be surprised if there's some negative feelings towards the players who moved away from Spain. Not saying this is why Torrs was subbed but it explains Cesc not starting and Spanish TV giving the MOTM to Iniesta.

Mr Alan

Deleted User wrote: »

Last night he missed a few sitters and didnt look like the player he looks at Anfield. He looks sulkier and has dived a fair bit also.

Deleted User wrote: »

NOTE: I think Torres is a super player BTW, Im just trying to be objective.

Objective is not making **** up man, i cant think of a single thing that could be confused for a dive in this tournament? and as for sulkier? pfft

gixerfixer

Deleted User wrote: »

Im gonna ask you the same question. He was very poor last night and for me, overall, hasnt been great this tournament. Last night he missed a few sitters and didnt look like the player he looks at Anfield. He looks sulkier and has dived a fair bit also.

Also, there has been the suggestion before about him that he's best when he's the "big fish", ie not in a team full of stars. Now no disrespect to Liverpool, but take out Gerrard and Torres and you have a team of good players but not stars and Torres certainly is the "big fish" there now (along with Gerradr". In the Spain team he;s ONE OF the stars along with Villa, Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, Silva, Casillas etc etc


If this is something that affects him mentally then he needs to get past that.



NOTE: I think Torres is a super player BTW, Im just trying to be objective.

Complete nonsense.If you took Gerrard and torres out of the liverpool team they would be ordinary(no ****)....is that you Eamo. Torres lead the line brilliantly last night.He worked his arse off for the team and guess what they hammered Russia.People who make these kind of comments are the same as Liverpool fans who say Ronaldo isnt world class (course he is) in other words complete clowns.In case you didnt notice Spain are in the final...you did notice that didnt you?

gucci

Deleted User wrote: »

Im gonna ask you the same question. He was very poor last night and for me, overall, hasnt been great this tournament. Last night he missed a few sitters and didnt look like the player he looks at Anfield. He looks sulkier and has dived a fair bit also.

NOTE: I think Torres is a super player BTW, Im just trying to be objective.

Im trying to be subjective too, but obviously I'm a Liverpool supporter so its tricky.
Was I the only one to think Torres played pretty well last night? Yes he had a horrible miss, off his shoulder, I really dont know what happened. But I thought he worked hard, as did the Russian defence at stopping him. It was actually turning into a ding-dong battle between them, but I knew he would be hauled in after 60 or 65 mins.

PHB

His game is based on pace. He is a lone striker. It's no surprise that he will be the first to be considered to come off to be rested. If Spain/Liverpool were still chasing the game, he would probably stay on, unless the manager wants to change the system. At that point, you decide who you want to take off, and most people would say Villa has been better than Torres.

As for Torres being better in the EPL. that's no surprise at all is it? This has much much better defending consistantly. Also teams in the Euros would have more of an idea of how to deal with Torres, which is to defend deep and take away his pace.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

Secondly, i think wat is annoying me personally is that the very people who would have criticised Rafa on the night about the change are now defending Aragones. they just want a pop at Torres/Rafa/whoever they can get their hands on.

Listen there is no one having a pop at Torres/Rafa so get down off your paranoid high horse.

Argones is a weak manager, As I said previously he panders to the Spanish media, Torres weakens the Spanish team, he is used to been the big player and teams like Madrid and Liverpool are built around him.

Torres is fantastic, but he is limited.

--amadeus--

The sooner Ronaldo does one to Spain the better because there seems to be an obsesion with dragging him into every thread, no matter how stretched the link.

Anyway one other reason that Torres may not perform as well for Spain as Liverpool is the general backroom staff. For example the LFC goalkeeping coach has files on all of the opposition goalkeepers and prior to teh game briefs Torres (and I assume the other strikers) on the keepers habits - which way they usually dive for penno's, if they dive early or stay big in one-on-ones, if they come for crosses and so on. Torres has said in interviews that that helped him hugely in his first season. If he doesn't get the same level of support at international level his performance will tail off a little. At the very top level it's about much more than raw talent, it's the application of talent and small differences in approach can add up to major changes in performance.

Not that I think he's been poor this tournament and I see no problem with substituting a striker and bringing on fresh legs in the last 20 - 30 mins.

Mr Alan

Mr Alan wrote: »

Objective is not making **** up man, i cant think of a single thing that could be confused for a dive in this tournament? and as for sulkier? pfft

Take the blinkers off Al will ya. Its ok to admit that he hasnt had a good tournament. Theyve made the final, thats 5 games theyve played, he's scored one goal. And he's dived numerous times, just because he plays for Liverpool deosnt mean u have to defend that FFS.

He looks mopey a lot fo the time, particularly last night, maybe he;s frustrated at his lack of goals, i dont know but to me he looks sulky, not im the same sense as Anelka sulky but he doesnt look happy.

gucci

gosplan wrote: »

To be honest though I wouldn't be surprised if there's some negative feelings towards the players who moved away from Spain. Not saying this is why Torrs was subbed but it explains Cesc not starting and Spanish TV giving the MOTM to Iniesta.

Didnt realise Iniesta got MOTM on Spanish TV, i kinda was forming a conspiricy theory of my own about Catalan players not being given the full game (bar Puyol) Xavi, Fabregas (is he catalan) Inesta rarely play the full 90, and I think Aragones just plain and simple likes to bring on fresh legs up front.

--amadeus--

Boggles wrote: »

Torres weakens the Spanish team, he is used to been the big player and teams like Madrid and Liverpool are built around him.

Torres is fantastic, but he is limited.

I think you may need to read this, get a better understanding of the sport we're discussing.

gixerfixer

Deleted User wrote: »

Take the blinkers off Al will ya. Its ok to admit that he hasnt had a good tournament. Theyve made the final, thats 5 games theyve played, he's scored one goal. And he's dived numerous times, just because he plays for Liverpool deosnt mean u have to defend that FFS.

He looks mopey a lot fo the time, particularly last night, maybe he;s frustrated at his lack of goals, i dont know but to me he looks sulky, not im the same sense as Anelka sulky but he doesnt look happy.

Ya see that's just not right.I didnt see one dive from him all tournament.He does dive in the EPL at times (not in Ronaldo's Gerrards class:)),but not in this tournament which leads me to think that you are just jumping on the Torres bashing bandwagon.

event

Mr Alan wrote: »

First off, he was injured against Chelsea, which is why he was taken off.

Secondly, i think wat is annoying me personally is that the very people who would have criticised Rafa on the night about the change are now defending Aragones. they just want a pop at Torres/Rafa/whoever they can get their hands on.

first point: I know that, but that wasnt known straight away on the night. i remember people giving out and a lot of pool fans saying that it was ok, sure babel scored.

secondly: honestly, **** em

event

Boggles wrote: »

Torres is fantastic, but he is limited.

in what way is he limited?

colly10

event wrote: »

last night he was subbed and his replacement scored.

There was alot for space left at the back a few minutes after he was subbed

gixerfixer

gixerfixer wrote: »

Complete nonsense.If you took Gerrard and torres out of the liverpool team they would be ordinary(no ****)....is that you Eamo. Torres lead the line brilliantly last night.He worked his arse off for the team and guess what they hammered Russia.People who make these kind of comments are the same as Liverpool fans who say Ronaldo isnt world class (course he is) in other words complete clowns.In case you didnt notice Spain are in the final...you did notice that didnt you?

:rolleyes:

How is it nonsense exactly?? Cos you say so? Well then it must be nonsene....:rolleyes:
I was making the point, that he has been accused, like Santa Cruz in the past, of being better as the "big fish". Stop being so paranoid and clam the f**k down. Like I said to Al, yes theyre in the final, Im very aware of that thank you, get a better argument next time FFS, he's scored 1 goal in 5 games getting them there, hardly prolific for a team thats scored 11 goals so far......you're aware of that arent you:mad::mad:

Foolish argument.

And as for your nonsensical, cheap last resort dig of comparing me to muppet Eamonn......when did I say anything remotely sensationalist like he does? You've started doin cartwheels cos I havent gone with the "ah he's great, the managers just a fool" party line. Maybe I should call you Liam.... :rolleyes:

Russia were brutal again last night. Spain have beaten them 7-1 on aggregate tis tourmant. defensively, Russia are weak. he worked hard yes, I never said he didnt,. but he was largely ineffectual, fluffing his chances. The kind of chances that he;d bury for Liverpool. My point is I think he;s currently off form. leave your Liverpool FC crap outta this, Im not havin a go at him or LFC, Im commenting on why I think he keeps gettin subbed, and speculating on potential reasons why he;s off form FFS.

gixerfixer

--amadeus-- wrote: »

I think you may need to read this, get a better understanding of the sport we're discussing.

+1. Lol:D

mike65

I'm curious as to these "sitters" Torres is missing.

Mike.

Racing Flat

nipplenuts wrote: »

Nipplenuts was not saying Torres ain't quality, but maybe not the saviour of the universe he's painted to be.

Nipplenuts asked the question does the EPL flatter Torres. The answer was 'No. He's quality..' not saying you didn't say he wasn't quality, just answering your question.

gucci

mike65 wrote:

I'm curious as to these "sitters" Torres is missing.

Mike.

Totally, I only remember one last night, wasnt really a sitter, but he missed.

amadeus wrote:

Anyway one other reason that Torres may not perform as well for Spain as Liverpool is the general backroom staff. For example the LFC goalkeeping coach has files on all of the opposition goalkeepers and prior to teh game briefs Torres (and I assume the other strikers) on the keepers habits

Hmmmm interesting, so your saying he will have a big dossier built up on Lehman Im off to the Bookies!!

Mr Alan

Boggles wrote: »

Listen there is no one having a pop at Torres/Rafa so get down off your paranoid high horse.

Really? Yea its my paranoia! :rolleyes:

Boggles wrote: »

Your Right! Ronaldo ever day of the week, proven winner, Torrres (even with 3 r's) has won fúck all!

Boggles wrote: »

apartently he only plays Torres because he is pressured to..

Boggles wrote: »

If he had any sort of bollix he would have made the decision last night of dropping him and playing Fabergas.

An Citeog wrote: »

he spent half the game moaning at the referee

Bubs101 wrote: »

only 4 of his premiership goals came away from home

An Citeog wrote: »

I thought he acted like a bit of a spoilt brat in the first half. There was one incident in particular where he wanted a foul given and when it wasn't, he just sat on the ground complaining to the ref ala Ronaldo.

nipplenuts wrote: »

Does anyone else think the EPL flatters this player?

Bubs101 wrote: »

Torres is **** when not at Anfield

---

Deleted User wrote: »

Take the blinkers off Al will ya. Its ok to admit that he hasnt had a good tournament. Theyve made the final, thats 5 games theyve played, he's scored one goal. And he's dived numerous times, just because he plays for Liverpool deosnt mean u have to defend that FFS.

Neil on your point below, this is another issue for me. He hasnt dived, i've watched every minute of every match he has played and he hasnt dived. Please cite me an example of when he "dived" or **** off.

And i aint saying he has had a great tournament, but he has a very good tournament, a handful of assists and a goal, leading the line on his own in the semi, winning 3-0.

There is a reason that Villa went over to Torres to celebrate his hat-trick, he said Torres deserved as much credit for it as he did.

gixerfixer

gixerfixer wrote: »

Ya see that's just not right.I didnt see one dive from him all tournament.He does dive in the EPL at times (not in Ronaldo's Gerrards class:)),but not in this tournament which leads me to think that you are just jumping on the Torres bashing bandwagon.

In fairness to him,unlike Ronaldo, he waits until there’s a hint of contact but he goes down very easily. Simulation maybe. Watch harder. Last night I saw 3 or 4 examples of it. Im not bashing him, he;s a super player. Best finisher in the EPL for sure, possibly Europe (only RVN comes close right now).


PS – the diving....throw Nani in there too, he;s really bad for it :pac:

Boggles

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Anyway one other reason that Torres may not perform as well for Spain as Liverpool is the general backroom staff. For example the LFC goalkeeping coach has files on all of the opposition goalkeepers and prior to teh game briefs Torres (and I assume the other strikers) on the keepers habits - which way they usually dive for penno's, if they dive early or stay big in one-on-ones, if they come for crosses and so on. Torres has said in interviews that that helped him hugely in his first season. If he doesn't get the same level of support at international level his performance will tail off a little. At the very top level it's about much more than raw talent, it's the application of talent and small differences in approach can add up to major changes in performance.

Not that I think he's been poor this tournament and I see no problem with substituting a striker and bringing on fresh legs in the last 20 - 30 mins.

Racing Flat

Boggles wrote: »

Torres is fantastic, but he is limited.

The mind boggles.

gixerfixer

Deleted User wrote: »

:rolleyes:

How is it nonsense exactly?? Cos you say so? Well then it must be nonsene....:rolleyes:
I was making the point, that he has been accused, like Santa Cruz in the past, of being better as the "big fish". Stop being so paranoid and clam the f**k down. Like I said to Al, yes theyre in the final, Im very aware of that thank you, get a better argument next time FFS, he's scored 1 goal in 5 games getting them there, hardly prolific for a team thats scored 11 goals so far......you're aware of that arent you:mad::mad:

Foolish argument.

And as for your nonsensical, cheap last resort dig of comparing me to muppet Eamonn......when did I say anything remotely sensationalist like he does? You've started doin cartwheels cos I havent gone with the "ah he's great, the managers just a fool" party line. Maybe I should call you Liam.... :rolleyes:

Russia were brutal again last night. Spain have beaten them 7-1 on aggregate tis tourmant. defensively, Russia are weak. he worked hard yes, I never said he didnt,. but he was largely ineffectual, fluffing his chances. The kind of chances that he;d bury for Liverpool. My point is I think he;s currently off form. leave your Liverpool FC crap outta this, Im not havin a go at him or LFC, Im commenting on why I think he keeps gettin subbed, and speculating on potential reasons why he;s off form FFS.

Ok i'll bite.How is it nonsense? I'll tell you. Silly comments like "If you take Torres and Gerrard out of the Liverpool team they would be ordinary"....this is nonsense.Of course they would FFS.The same as if you took Drogba and Carvalio out of the Chelsea team..the same as if you took Ronaldo and Vidic out of Manchester United team...the same as if you took Fabergas and Adaberor out of the Arsenal team etc......Name one occasion that he dived in the tournament?? I'll wait for the answer.....For your information im not paranoid thanks very much. The lad is class in the same way Fabergas is class or Kaka is class and im just pointing the facts out ..So please leave your Manchester United crap otta this and look at the player on a level playing field.Imagine he was playing for your crowd.Suppose you can dream.

Boggles

gixerfixer wrote: »

For your information im not paranoid thanks very much. The lad is class in the same way Fabergas is class or Kaka is class and im just pointing the facts out ..So please leave your Manchester United crap otta this and look at the player on a level playing field.Imagine he was playing for your crowd.Suppose you can dream.

Sweet Mary Lou! :rolleyes:

gucci

More like:



this freaking thread.

Mr Alan

Mr Alan wrote: »

Neil on your point below, this is another issue for me. He hasnt dived, i've watched every minute of every match he has played and he hasnt dived. Please cite me an example of when he "dived" or **** off.

And i aint saying he has had a great tournament, but he has a very good tournament, a handful of assists and a goal, leading the line on his own in the semi, winning 3-0.

There is a reason that Villa went over to Torres to celebrate his hat-trick, he said Torres deserved as much credit for it as he did.

You'd wanna watch your posts dont verge into abuse tellin people to **** off. Just like you Al, Ill say what I want and I most certainly will not **** off, okay?

Second, to quote your favourite argument that u type at elast once a day, this isnt the Liverpool thread, so dont expect a love in.


Thirdly, last night I can think of 2 off the top of my head that I can escribe. the first the defender puts in the tackle, and Torres then threw his head back, arched his back and fell to his knes. Even the commentators called it a dive. All very theatrical.

The second time the Russian had his arm on his collar but Torres fell to the gorund like he;d been tackled around the legs. He lets the ref know he’s being held....Now you can moan and say that his being held is a foul, and Id agree, but thats football, you have to deal with this as a striker.

He laid off some nice passes for Villa, but again, weak Rusky defence.... and Im not saying he has had a terrible tournament either. Sometimes I worry about u lads. the thread is about Torres being subbed, Im merely pointing out that his performances thus far have hardly made him undroppable or unsubstitutable. I mean Iniesta and Xavi have normally been subbed too and for me theyve been equally if not more effective to the team than Torres. But Guiza and Fabregas coming on have done well so I dont see the complaint.

--amadeus--

gixerfixer

gixerfixer wrote: »

Ok i'll bite.How is it nonsense? I'll tell you. Silly comments like "If you take Torres and Gerrard out of the Liverpool team they would be ordinary"....this is nonsense.Of course they would FFS.The same as if you took Drogba and Carvalio out of the Chelsea team..the same as if you took Ronaldo and Vidic out of Manchester United team...the same as if you took Fabergas and Adaberor out of the Arsenal team etc......Name one occasion that he dived in the tournament?? I'll wait for the answer.....For your information im not paranoid thanks very much. The lad is class in the same way Fabergas is class or Kaka is class and im just pointing the facts out ..So please leave your Manchester United crap otta this and look at the player on a level playing field.Imagine he was playing for your crowd.Suppose you can dream.

You're definitely paranoid mate. I didnt mention united once, you did. So you're definitely paranoid. If u didnt know who i supported I'd hate to see what kind of sh1te you'd fall back on.

btw saying "This is nonsense" and "of course they would" in the same sentence makes less than no sense. Its a paradox, you literally just agreed and disagreed with me over the same point?


Read my posts and imagine we're talking about someone who plays for Lyon or something so u can be more objective yea.


I never said take Gerrrard and Torres out of Pool and theyd be sh1te. I said theyd have no big superstars, which is true, I dunno why you;re havin such a fit about that. Again ur all over the place, get it together. I said, if u take those two out there'd be no STARS AND IN SPAIN THERE ARE MANY SUPERSTARS. Why is it so hard for u to get your head around that. Nothing in any of my posts about United.

Your lack of logic is astonighing. You're seeing what you want to see rather than reading my posts.


PS - Yea I wouldnt mind Torres at United one bit, but not at the expense of Ronaldo, Tevez or Rooney thanks Go back to the creche bringin that kind of crap up. Please stick to talking about Torres playing for SPAIN and why he may not be getting 90 minutes...thanks. LIVERPOOL, MANCHESTER UNITED, INTER MILAN AND COBH RAMBLERS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THESE POTENTIAL REASONS, OR THIS DISCUSSION.

Xavi6

Seriously lads, chill ffs.

Mr Alan

Deleted User wrote: »

You'd wanna watch your posts dont verge into abuse tellin people to **** off. Just like you Al, Ill say what I want and I most certainly will not **** off, okay?.

Of course you can say watever you want, but please dont make stuff up. Thats wat pisses me off.

Deleted User wrote: »

Second, to quote your favourite argument that u type at elast once a day, this isnt the Liverpool thread, so dont expect a love in.

I dont expect a love in, but people also shouldnt expect to make stuff up without being told to **** off.

Deleted User wrote: »

Thirdly, last night I can think of 2 off the top of my head that I can escribe. the first the defender puts in the tackle, and Torres then threw his head back, arched his back and fell to his knees.

Presuming this was the incident when Torres and the defender were tusselling in the russian penalty area, and the russian lad fell on the back of Torres legs? how are you meant to go down when a 6ft plus blokes falls into the back of your legs.

hardly a dive.

Deleted User wrote: »

The second time the Russian had his arm on his collar but Torres fell to the gorund like he;d been tackled around the legs. He lets the ref know he’s being held....Now you can moan and say that his being held is a foul, and Id agree, but thats football, you have to deal with this as a striker.

Pretty sure as the guy was holding him fouling him, he also clipped his heals.

Again, still awaiting an instance when he dived, considering he has been doing it all tournament, there should be no shortage.

Racing Flat

Deleted User wrote: »

PS - Yea I wouldnt mind Torres at United one bit, but not at the expense of Ronaldo, Tevez or Rooney thanks

Liverpool fan, but (if it was purely for footballing reasons) I would take Ronaldo over Torres, but I would definitely take Torres over Tevez, no question. Tougher call, but i'd probably take Torres over Rooney, as I feel that Rooney's size may come against him. He's a big lad in the strong sense for a young age. Think this will mean his pace and ability to accelerate and turn etc. will dimish substabntially by the time he's 25 or so and he'll never fulfil the huge potential. Just an opinion.

gixerfixer

Deleted User wrote: »

You're definitely paranoid mate. I didnt mention united once, you did. So you're definitely paranoid. If u didnt know who i supported I d hate to see what kind of sh1te you'd fall back on.


Read my posts and imagine we're talking about someone who plays for Lyon or something so u can be more objective yea.


I never said take Geerad and Torres out of Pool and theyd be sh1te. Again ur all over the place, get it together. I said, if u take those wtwo out there;d be no STARS AND IN SPAIN THERE ARE MANY STARS. Why is it so hard for u to get your head around that. Nothing in any of my posts about United.

Your lack of logic is astonighing. You're seeing what you want to see rather than reading my posts.


PS - Yea I wouldnt mind Torres at United one bit, but not at the expense of Ronaldo, Tevez or Rooney thanks Go back to the creche bringin that kind of crap up. Please stick to talking about Torres playing for SPAIN and why he may not be getting 90 minutes...thanks. LIVERPOOL, MANCHESTER UNITED, INTER MILAN AND COBH RAMBLERS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THESE POTENTIAL REASONS, OR THIS DISCUSSION.

Ha Ha Ha......Whilst i for one agree with the Computers for primary schools programme it leads to one inevitable outcome for users.Nonsense talk :pac:

pvt.joker

The simple fact is that Torres shouldnt be in the starting 11 for Spain.
The lad who came on for him played excellent, and now has 2 goals from the bench.

You get your place in the team by CURRENT FORM, not reputation, which is what Mr.Alan is basing his opinion of Torres on.

Racing Flat

Racing Flat wrote: »

Liverpool fan, but (if it was purely for footballing reasons) I would take Ronaldo over Torres, but I would definitely take Torres over Tevez, no question. Tougher call, but i'd probably take Torres over Rooney, as I feel that Rooney's size may come against him. He's a big lad in the strong sense for a young age. Think this will mean his pace and ability to accelerate and turn etc. will dimish substabntially by the time he's 25 or so and he'll never fulfil the huge potential. Just an opinion.

Torres is a more effective striker than both Rooney and Tevez. I wouldnt trade them tho because they suit our style of play. Id take him if he was playing with those guys rather than instread of. Again, TORRES IS ABSOLUTELY CLASS, Im not disputing that one bit. Im talking about his performances for Spain in Euro 2008 and that alone, which have been, at best, average, hence he cant complain too much about being subbed.


The coach wont sub any of the back 5 as they are thin at the back for options.

He wont take off Senna and as Villa had been so prolific he wasnt gonna take him off.


Which leaves: Silva, Torres, Xavi, Iniesta as guys who are available to go off. Hardly a shock when only 4 players are likely to go off and the coach uses all of his bench.....

gixerfixer

gixerfixer wrote: »

Ha Ha Ha......Whilst i for one agree with the Computers for primary schools programme it leads to one inevitable outcome for users.Nonsense talk :pac:

Good man, have a personal (and franky cheap and unfunny) go at me rather than stick to the topic. Classic sign of defeat Fair play...all credibility you may have had is now gone, and if u keep up that kind of theme in your posts Ill have no problem whatsoever in reporting you.

Id say more but Im not gonna lower myself to your level.

Evil_Clown

I was pretty amazed when Torres got subbed last night I though he was playing very well. Guiza did come on and get the goal but Torres would probably have finished that chance aswell. I just think Aragones is a little strange for substitutions but it is working out for him so far. He took Xavi off last night after he had scored which I thought was equally strange.

As for the other argument of swapping Torres for Ronaldo etc etc. This will just go around in circles.
most utd fans would not swap Ronaldo for Torres
most liverpool fans would not swap Torres for Ronaldo
most arsenal fans would not swap Fabregas for Ronaldo etc etc

Mr Alan

Mr Alan wrote: »

Of course you can say watever you want, but please dont make stuff up. Thats wat pisses me off.



I dont expect a love in, but people also shouldnt expect to make stuff up without being told to **** off.



Presuming this was the incident when Torres and the defender were tusselling in the russian penalty area, and the russian lad fell on the back of Torres legs? how are you meant to go down when a 6ft plus blokes falls into the back of your legs.

hardly a dive.



Pretty sure as the guy was holding him fouling him, he also clipped his heals.

Again, still awaiting an instance when he dived, considering he has been doing it all tournament, there should be no shortage.

Al i havent Sky + the games and taken notes on minute by minute analysis and created a "Torres' dives" dossier but Torres and Silva were 2 I noticed who go down easy and stay down easy. But since my dossier hasnt been put together Im gonna bow out and retract my previous statement and say no, he never dives, ever, and he doesnt sulk, he's played the whole tournament with a big smile on his face, and its refreshing to see a player acknowledge his coach and accept being sacrificed for the team when subbed rather than sulk.......

Evil_Clown

Evil_Clown wrote: »

I was pretty amazed when Torres got subbed last night I though he was playing very well. Guiza did come on and get the goal but Torres would probably have finished that chance aswell. I just think Aragones is a little strange for substitutions but it is working out for him so far. He took Xavi off last night after he had scored which I thought was equally strange.

As for the other argument of swapping Torres for Ronaldo etc etc. This will just go around in circles.
most utd fans would not swap Ronaldo for Torres
most liverpool fans would not swap Torres for Ronaldo
most arsenal fans would not swap Fabregas for Ronaldo etc etc

Torres would definitely have scored Guiza's chane, no doubt about it. But the chances he had when he was on, he missed. Im trying not to deal in the hypothetical though.


And absolutely, but I for one never brought that up. People seem to have misunderstood my point about the "superstars" thing. it was a criticism of him in Spain that he was the big dog at Athletico and everything was about him, same at Liverpool, all their attacks are through him, whereas Spain are not all about Torres. This wasnt a dig at Liverpools play, every team needs a linchpin. My point was about how Torres performs when hes not the main man.

Boggles

Evil_Clown wrote: »

most arsenal fans would not swap Fabregas for Ronaldo etc etc

TBH Fabregas is probably the only player I would swap Ronaldo for.

Mr Alan

I thought Gerrard was our main man?

Torres is now?

The same criticisms were leveled at Gerrard, needs to the "the man", team set up for him, big fish etc etc

so does that mean he has now garnered all your approval cause he was still brilliant despite not being the "main man"?

Mr Alan

Mr Alan wrote: »

I thought Gerrard was our main man?

Torres is now?

The same criticisms were leveled at Gerrard, needs to the "the man", team set up for him, big fish etc etc

so does that mean he has now garnered all your approval cause he was still brilliant despite not being the "main man"?

Gerrard and Torres are your main men.....did i not already say that? Are u denying Torres aint the big dog?

The Liverpool team is built around that partnership. He is obviously the main man, the whole style of play is designed to get the ball to him as often as possible and/or use his pace to get in behind defenders and finish. Same way Uniteds attack is built around the Rooney/Tevez/Ronaldo. When playing for Spain its all about quick slick passing rather than constantly getting it to Torres. He's not the main focal point.

U cant deny they are the two stars? How many other big superstars are at Liverpool? Im not talkin excellent players players (Alonso, Agger, Mascherano, Kuyt (who I rate), Babel etc) Im talking about big stars who the team is built around. Same with Athletico. Whereas Spain have the guys I already mentioned. Thats not a criticism, its only right to build teams around players. Its how a player reacts when the team is all about teamwork and passing rather than playing to suit your game. And he;s not the only one. Unlike u guys Im not letting who pays his wages blind my view here...Rooney is the same, ahsnt really produced his best for United as the style isnt built to suit him (that and he doesnt have guys like Tevez and Ronaldo to play off as England dont have a great out and out striker) and hence Rooney is also not at his best at international level. Stop being so defensive.

Gerrard has done well for Engerland in a team full of egos and stars so I dont see that criticism myslef. The big one Ive heard of him is that he cant run a midfield as effectively as some players hence hes better on the right or behind the striker?


Look, im not, and was never, trying to turn this down the Liverpool - United road. And please dont do that. I was merely saying that at Athletico and Liverpool where he's kept his best work, he is/was the main man, whereas for Spain where he is no doubt good but not as good, he;s not the main man. Thats all, no more than that. Only reason I mentioned Gerrard was cos I wasnt gonna say "Torres is the big star" when its obvious as day there are 2.

TBH Liverpool are irrelevent to this discussion. Torres for Liverpool is amazing, thats not in question. What is in question is whether it is justified to substitute him. And I think it is.

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

I thought Gerrard was our main man?

Torres is now?

Rafa has moved him to accomadate Torres, so yes I suppose (Torres) he would be the main man.

Mr Alan wrote: »

so does that mean he has now garnered all your approval cause he was still brilliant despite not being the "main man"?

Very Debatable, he has put in some quality appearances but alot of the time I have watched the Pool, he has been annonymous.

Back to why Torres is subbed alot for Spain, simply answer, he doesn't do the business and in international football managers do not have the patience or slack to be waiting for a striker that "might" score in the 90 minutes.

kryogen

Deleted User wrote: »

Im not saying he has had a terrible tournament either. Sometimes I worry about u lads. the thread is about Torres being subbed, Im merely pointing out that his performances thus far have hardly made him undroppable or unsubstitutable. I mean Iniesta and Xavi have normally been subbed too and for me theyve been equally if not more effective to the team than Torres. But Guiza and Fabregas coming on have done well so I dont see the complaint.

Excellent point, some people just get blinded and need to take up and extreme position, he has not done anything to suggest he should play 90 minutes every game, he is doing a lot of running and it is actually in his best interests to get off and have a rest since he will be playing 6 games in less then 3 weeks. have any of you considered that he might be burnt out by the time the final comes unless he is rested?

no he isnt setting the tournament alight, but he isnt the worst player in the tournament either.

He does deserve to play. he doesnt have a divine right to never be subbed though

nobody is saying hes ****e.



on another note, Gerrards form has dropped since the arrival of Torres Al, alot of Liverpool fans have been willing to admit that. he isnt the only big fish anymore and it seems to affect his game. now this isnt the Liverpool thread so i dont wanna discuss that here ok

raido9

gixerfixer wrote: »

"If you take Torres and Gerrard out of the Liverpool team they would be ordinary"

This is true. They are a very ordinary team with two top class players carrying them.

gixerfixer wrote: »

....this is nonsense.Of course they would FFS.The same as if you took Drogba and Carvalio out of the Chelsea team..the same as if you took Ronaldo and Vidic out of Manchester United team...the same as if you took Fabergas and Adaberor out of the Arsenal team etc.

This is crap, Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal have class practically from 1 to 11 (or more in Utd and Chelsea case). Granted they all have some weak links, but they would not collapse losing their top two players.

Dont compare Liverpool to the big three in England, its insulting.

EDIT: Actually, it looks like Drogba Ronaldo and Adaberor will be leaving this summer. Torres and Gerrard are staying, so we'll get to test your theory somwhat. I guarantee you I know what three clubs will be top three at the end of next season.

ShoulderChip

sure look at how much points chelsea totted up when they were missing most of their starting 11.