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Ireland in UK?
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Shouldn't you be getting rid of the Vikings too? They invaded first, didn't they? And don't forget the Normans...
Do you see vikings around today? Britain occupies the North today. We're not talking 1000 years ago, sir. And it certainly wasn't 1000 years ago 17 year old kids were used as gun fodder. And it certainly wasn't 1000 years ago that Britain was pushing their weight around the middle east, causing the deaths of 1000's of innocent civilians. And it certainly wasn't 1000 years ago that the DUP expressed their true colours calling Hurricane Katrina an act of god against those practicing sodomy. These are the people that are trying to Govern the North in a fair and just manner. Yet you continuously try to defend British rule in the North?0 -
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In a manner of speaking; Ireland would not be what it is today without their influence.Do you see vikings around today?
Britain does not occupy the North any more than the US occupies Hawaii.Britain occupies the North today.
Well actually, we kind of are; Normans invade Britain and then move on to Ireland and eventually we get to where we are today. The last 1,000 years cannot be undone; deal with it.We're not talking 1000 years ago, sir.
No, it wasn't. It's only 15 years since the IRA killed two kids with a bomb in Warrington.And it certainly wasn't 1000 years ago 17 year old kids were used as gun fodder.
Considering the use of Shannon Airport, we're in no position to point the finger.And it certainly wasn't 1000 years ago that Britain was pushing their weight around the middle east, causing the deaths of 1000's of innocent civilians.
I'm defending democracy. The majority of people in the North wish to remain under British rule and their wishes should be respected.Yet you continuously try to defend British rule in the North?0 -
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In a manner of speaking; Ireland would not be what it is today without their influence.
Irrelevant.Britain does not occupy the North any more than the US occupies Hawaii.
Oh, so American troops were slaying children in Hawaii a few years back in an attempt to curb civil rights and freedom?No, it wasn't. It's only 15 years since the IRA killed two kids with a bomb in Warrington.
If the Irish defense forces killed two kids with a bomb in Warrington, you might have a point. But they didn't. The difference is, the employed crown paratroopers opened fire on innocent children, with intent to kill those said children. I doubt highly that the IRA went in to bomb anywhere with sole intent to murder children. Not that I'm defending their actions either, any civilian life lost is disgusting - But your scenario is absolutely irrelevant in the bigger picture.Considering the use of Shannon Airport, we're in no position to point the finger.
Yes, we are in a position to point the finger. There is a big difference between planes refueling (I opposed the landing of the planes FTR) and troops out maiming and killing innocent children. Your logic is dribble at this point and I've seen this same old debate spat up, time and time again. When Irish Troops are out in Iraq killing innocent children, then I'll see fit to take issue with my own Government.I'm defending democracy. The majority of people in the North wish to remain under British rule and their wishes should be respected.
Oh, defending democracy are we? It was very democratic how we got our own freedom down South wasn't it? Instead of votes, we had to die by the 1000's for our liberty.
It was very democratic to shoot dead children on the street of Derry who were marching for civil rights, now wasn't it?
Democracy? Don't make me laugh. Democracy is only useful to Britain when it suits them. And when it doesn't? They shoot and kill anything that opposes their judgment.
I doubt the people of Derry or West Belfast consider being forced to live under British rule as democratic. I doubt the nationalist population of the North who were intimidated by the PSNI for flying tricolours consider it democratic, when the Union Jack can fly anywhere without a word being said. I doubt the Irish speaking population of the North consider the DUP's veto of AnG very democratic. I doubt the gay community consider the ill-treatment of their peers by the homophobes within their own Government in the DUP as democratic.
Britain loves democracy so long as it swings in their favour.0 -
I live with one.Do you see vikings around today?
Nah, it's perfectly accurate as it is.A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »That should read ' The majority of...'
What you completely and repeatedly fail to understand is that you just did defend their actions.I doubt highly that the IRA went in to bomb anywhere with sole intent to murder children. Not that I'm defending their actions either, any civilian life lost is disgusting...
I have never blown up any children. I can guarantee that I will never blow up any children. How can I be certain? Because I won't ever do anything as disgustingly evil as place a bomb somewhere that it could kill children.
Saying that the IRA didn't mean to murder children is defending their actions, in the eyes of right-thinking people. If you want people to believe you don't support the murderous behaviour of terrorists, stop defending them.
This kind of xenophobic rant isn't welcome on this forum. If you can't see past your blind hatred of Britain, find another place to vent it.Democracy is only useful to Britain when it suits them. And when it doesn't? They shoot and kill anything that opposes their judgment.0 -
oscarBravo wrote: »Saying that the IRA didn't mean to murder children is defending their actions, in the eyes of right-thinking people. If you want people to believe you don't support the murderous behaviour of terrorists, stop defending them.
I didn't defend them. Excuse yourself. I was explaining the differences between purposely shooting a kid point blank, and a kid being a causality of a bomb. I was trying to outline that the IRA are not paid by the Irish government and do not act on behalf of the Irish Government, while the British army do. Defending them would be me explaining how it was OK to kill those children. I did not say that. So stop trying to bully me around, attacking every single thing I say.oscarBravo wrote: »This kind of xenophobic rant isn't welcome on this forum. If you can't see past your blind hatred of Britain, find another place to vent it.
I don't hate Britain. I especially don't hate the British people. My statements are an accurate account of Britain. My dislike for British policies is not blind and I have outlined every reason as to why I do so. It's not Xenophobic whatsoever. So keep your cheap attacks for someone who's less stern than myself. If i was xenophobic - I would have something against the "people" of Britain. Being against British foreign policy is NOT Xenophobic. The same way if an anti-war protester objected to American policy, they would also NOT be xenophobic.
You want to speak about finding somewhere to "vent" it. I've already been labelled a supporter/defender of terrorism twice in this thread, by you and by Moriarty. And that's acceptable is it? I have not supported any acts of terrorism. if I "supported" it, I would say "It's alright, because they occupy our country" or something cliché along those lines. Analyzing events is perfectly acceptable and I refuse to allow you to bully me into doing anything else.
Opinion is perfectly fine on here, so long as you're not a Republican.
I'm not a terrorist. I don't support terrorism. I'm a thoughtful person who likes to analyze the parallels between things, and if something is not weighing up in an argument, I'll address it. It is my right to have an opinion.
I'm not going to derail this thread with this nonsense, and I'll take this up with your privately.0 -
And I was pointing out to you what people with a fully-developed sense of right and wrong already know: that putting a bomb where it might kill children is every little bit as evil and wrong as shooting those children in the face.I didn't defend them. Excuse yourself. I was explaining the differences between purposely shooting a kid point blank, and a kid being a causality of a bomb.
I know it's nice and easy to hide behind the cowardly excuse that they didn't deliberately set out to murder those children, but it's a cowardly excuse anyway, and the very act of hiding behind it is a tacit defence of the actions involved, whether you're prepared to admit it to yourself or not.
Look: I don't care whether or not you believe you are defending the actions of the IRA. Your words are an attempt to soften the guilt of child-murderers. Until you can see that, you'll never understand why people will continue to see you as a terrorist sympathiser.
Oh, boo friggin' hoo. If you don't want me pointing out the fact that your words convey a meaning whether or not you want to admit it, don't use those words here.So stop trying to bully me around, attacking every single thing I say.
You said: "Democracy is only useful to Britain when it suits them. And when it doesn't? They shoot and kill anything that opposes their judgment." If that's not a xenophobic rant, I don't know what is.I don't hate Britain. I especially don't hate the British people. My statements are an accurate account of Britain. My dislike for British policies is not blind and I have outlined every reason as to why I do so. It's not Xenophobic whatsoever. So keep your cheap attacks for someone who's less stern than myself. If i was xenophobic - I would have something against the "people" of Britain. Being against British foreign policy is NOT Xenophobic. The same way if an anti-war protester objected to American policy, they would also NOT be xenophobic.
If your "analysis" of events boils down to it being ok to "accidentally" kill children (as long as you didn't actually mean to), and that "Britain" shoots and kills everyone it disagrees with, then you're going to have to either work harder at your "analysis", or deal with the fact that you've nailed your colours publicly to the mast.You want to speak about finding somewhere to "vent" it. I've already been labelled a supporter/defender of terrorism twice in this thread, by you and by Moriarty. And that's acceptable is it? I have not supported any acts of terrorism. if I "supported" it, I would say "It's alright, because they occupy our country" or something cliché along those lines. Analyzing events is perfectly acceptable and I refuse to allow you to bully me into doing anything else.
I haven't stopped you having an opinion. I've pointed out that the opinions you express paint a picture of you. If you don't like how people see that picture, then maybe you should think long and hard about the opinions you express, and why you hold them.Opinion is perfectly fine on here, so long as you're not a Republican.
I'm not a terrorist. I don't support terrorism. I'm a thoughtful person who likes to analyze the parallels between things, and if something is not weighing up in an argument, I'll address it. It is my right to have an opinion.0 -
You're twisting my words to try and suit your argument. I never at ANY point stated it was ok to kill children. I said it was disgusting. I expect you to retract that comment.
Secondly - My portrayal of Britain and democracy was quite accurate.
1. Ireland had to fight to free itself from Britain, and lost 1000's in order to do so. There was no democracy involved.
2. The civil rights marchers of Derry marched for equality and civil liberty. yet instead of doing the democratic thing and listen to the concerns of the people, it's paratroopers shot and killed innocent people for no reason whatsoever.
3. Britain attacks Iraq on the premise of weapons of mass destruction. Britain claims to be there on a democratic premise, when anybody with half a brain knows that they are there for resources and not for the well-being of the Iraqi people (who are nearly a million less btw since the Invasion of the UK & US).
This is a few of many scenarios. It's not Xenophobic. It is all within good reason.0 -
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You also said "I doubt highly that the IRA went in to bomb anywhere with sole intent to murder children." It seems your disgust is somewhat qualified. When it is unqualified and unconditional, come back to me.You're twisting my words to try and suit your argument. I never at ANY point stated it was ok to kill children. I said it was disgusting.
You can expect whatever you want.I expect you to retract that comment.
There was no democracy involved because a tiny group of people took matters into their own hands and started a war - without, as it happens, a democratic mandate.Secondly - My portrayal of Britain and democracy was quite accurate.
1. Ireland had to fight to free itself from Britain, and lost 1000's in order to do so. There was no democracy involved.
Allow me to remind you once again that you said: "They shoot and kill anything that opposes their judgment." In support of this ridiculous hyperbole, you wheel out an Irish rebellion, the actions of a single regiment, and a misjudged and stupid war.2. The civil rights marchers of Derry marched for equality and civil liberty. yet instead of doing the democratic thing and listen to the concerns of the people, it's paratroopers shot and killed innocent people for no reason whatsoever.
3. Britain attacks Iraq on the premise of weapons of mass destruction. Britain claims to be there on a democratic premise, when anybody with half a brain knows that they are there for resources and not for the well-being of the Iraqi people (who are nearly a million less btw since the Invasion of the UK & US).
You accused a country of shooting and killing anyone it disagrees with. That's xenophobic. I don't care whether or not your best friends are British; if I said the same about Denmark my girlfriend would move out.
I'm sorry it upsets you that I and others find your opinions distasteful, but just as you're free to hold those opinions, we're free to dislike them. Also, you don't have carte blanche to express any opinion you like on this forum.0 -
oscarBravo wrote: »You also said "I doubt highly that the IRA went in to bomb anywhere with sole intent to murder children." It seems your disgust is somewhat qualified. When it is unqualified and unconditional, come back to me.
It was an accurate statement. It's not disputable. As was my statement that I found any of the deaths disgusting. You can't spin what's there to be spun.oscarBravo wrote: »There was no democracy involved because a tiny group of people took matters into their own hands and started a war - without, as it happens, a democratic mandate.
A democratic mandate? "Oh.. yes, Hi Mr. Britain. We'd like Independence from you now."
That would of worked, would it OB? Thousands who even mentioned the idea of a free Ireland quickly saw the back of the British hand. That's documented fact. So no, there was no democracy involved. We all seen what happened when the Irish people proclaimed their Independance in 1916 didn't we? They were executed for treason. Democracy involved? No.oscarBravo wrote: »You accused a country of shooting and killing anyone it disagrees with. That's xenophobic. I don't care whether or not your best friends are British; if I said the same about Denmark my girlfriend would move out.
So Britain didn't slay thousands of innocent Irish lifes for disagreeing with it's rule? Britain didn't slay thousands of innocent Iraqi lifes for a resource war? Am I supposed to say "Ah sure, Britain - They've great" foreign policies here?
Britain has a long history of awful foreign policies, and that's a well documented and historical fact. I'm sorry if you find my description Xenophobic, but it's not. Britain is quick to the gun and thousands of lost lives are proof of it. So walk around their acts of terrorism on our own people, and many others if you like. It won't change the fact that where democracy does not suit them, they will use their military might to solve whatever issues may be at hand.
I can't be bothered with this thread any further. I have better things to do with my time than to address your inaccuracies.0 -
Britain didn't slay thousands of innocent Iraqi lifes for a resource war? Am I supposed to say "Ah sure, Britain - They've great" foreign policies here?
I'm certain that, were this true, there would have been some mention of it. Are there any links to this slaying of thousands of Iraqi innocents?
A hundred years ago, possibly, but Britain is now akin to a neutered pussy-cat.0 -
That statement is correct (for once).So Britain didn't slay thousands of innocent Irish lifes for disagreeing with it's rule?
No doubt Britain & Ireland (tens of thousands of irish men) had absolutely nothing to do with saving your grandparents bacon during the two World Wars, seeing as all british policy is evil & involves killing everybody from Iraqi's to Irish men women & children?
Your views on History are very skewed indeed dlofnep, & if I were to have a go at you about all the errors in your hate filled rants against Britain we would be here all day, batting to & fro . . . . . .
Getting back to the Origins of this Thread, shame we dont have Sainsburys & Waitrose here
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Why? Because it gets in the way of your anti-British sentiment?Irrelevant.
In the same way that Britain would be a totally different place today had it not been conquered by the Normans, Ireland would be a totally different place today without the Viking influence. It is certainly not irrelevant.
What the hell are you talking about?Oh, so American troops were slaying children in Hawaii a few years back in an attempt to curb civil rights and freedom?
You just did.I doubt highly that the IRA went in to bomb anywhere with sole intent to murder children. Not that I'm defending their actions either...
My logic is drivel? You were the one claiming that the IRA didn't intend to kill children, but now your implying that the British Army are "out maiming and killing innocent children", as though they were on some kind of paedo-cidal mission.There is a big difference between planes refueling (I opposed the landing of the planes FTR) and troops out maiming and killing innocent children. Your logic is dribble at this point...
I'm not sure who "we" is (were you directly involved in the War of Independence?), but nobody HAD to die at all. As has been pointed out countless times before on this forum, Ireland had secured Home Rule before the Rising took place. Also, Ireland was the only "colony" in the Empire that had representation in Westminster.Oh, defending democracy are we? It was very democratic how we got our own freedom down South wasn't it? Instead of votes, we had to die by the 1000's for our liberty.
So the current Northern Assembly was not democratically elected?It was very democratic to shoot dead children on the street of Derry who were marching for civil rights, now wasn't it?
Democracy? Don't make me laugh. Democracy is only useful to Britain when it suits them.
Do they indeed. Incredible the EU puts up with them in that case, seeing as how they’ve assassinated every MEP that opposes their point of view.And when it doesn't? They shoot and kill anything that opposes their judgment.
Who's forcing them?I doubt the people of Derry or West Belfast consider being forced to live under British rule as democratic.
Now you’re just making random, nonsensical allegations against the “tyrannical regime” in the North.I doubt the nationalist population of the North who were intimidated by the PSNI for flying tricolours consider it democratic…
I doubt the parents of all the children in Ireland who are “forced” to attend prefabs to receive their education consider it democratic. I doubt the people who are forced to wait for months to receive treatment from the Irish health service consider it very democratic. See, I can do it too.
The DUP were democratically elected by the people of Northern Ireland; deal with it.I doubt the Irish speaking population of the North consider the DUP's veto of AnG very democratic. I doubt the gay community consider the ill-treatment of their peers by the homophobes within their own Government in the DUP as democratic.0 -
The DUP is the majority voice for the unionist population of the North, but yet - it's riddled with homophobes and bigots. All's well in Stormont though, right? If the DUP had it's way, homosexuals would be hung, and so would the nationalists along with them. Your kind of Government Arthur?
Considering they're governing alongside unrepentant terrorists who by all accounts have sanctioned murders as cold blooded and as indescriminate as those in Derry, I think a few twisted religious ideals that by and large are laughed at by the majority of the NI population are the least of our worries.
Its an imperfect world. I'd rather have homophobes and (now part time) terrorists in government than return to your idealistic fight for "freedom". I fail to see how the British "occupation" of NI is hampering your life in Waterford. Come back to me when you've grown up in NI in the 80's, lived under a main flightpath into the busiest military heliport in Europe, and lived from day to day wondering would your family make it home without being caught up in a carbomb attack - then you can stick to your ideals.0 -
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drunkmonkey wrote: »We were in the Commonwealth with the UK until 1949, we were the only country to ever leave it, we still have the same rights as other Commonwealth members, technically you could say were still joined with them under law..
Yep. John Costello gets locked at a dinner party in Canada, takes offence to having a miniture version of "Roaring Meg" (a cannon used during the 1689 siege of Derry) set beside his cutlery, so rushes outside and declares that Ireland is leaving the commonwealth to become a republic.
Classic stuff.0 -
I just thought I would throw the idea out. Would anyone be in favor of Ireland Joining in an act of Union with Britain? I'm aware some extremist parties within mainland Britain are in favor. Im also aware that there are people within Fine Gael who would back such a decision. Personally, I would be 110% against any notion of the idea. There is too much history and cultural conflict for it ever to be in my opinion. Are you in in favor or against? For what reasons?
Right now, you go to an online store. Depending on where you go, you either have to cop on theres no Ireland option so you pick UK, or its a UK site that refuses to ship to Ireland but doesnt have any quips about shipping to the north. And all I want is a damn charger for my laptop, and you wont help me out? Probably because they're too good for the Euro :rolleyes:
Ima have to say nah.
What are we meaning by a pact here anyway? If we're both single in 30 years we'll get married?0
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