Knock Airport

the_pits

:mad:I have just travelled from Knock Airport, but before I could leave airport I noticed sigh saying I had to pay 10 Euro for develoment fund, when I asked what would happen if I had no money I was told that I would not be able to fly. I paid, and noticed my receipt 302million plus, there was nothing on my flight itinerary about exra charge, and where is all the money going to, because what I saw of airport lounge it was pretty poor :mad:

paulm17781

the_pits wrote: »

:mad:I have just travelled from Knock Airport, but before I could leave airport I noticed sigh saying I had to pay 10 Euro for develoment fund, when I asked what would happen if I had no money I was told that I would not be able to fly. I paid, and noticed my receipt 302million plus, there was nothing on my flight itinerary about exra charge, and where is all the money going to, because what I saw of airport lounge it was pretty poor :mad:

That sounds a little illegal to me (I'm not lawyer) if the charge is not on your itinerary, it is not a part of your flight hence they can't stop you.

I'd get on to the consumer association etc. about that.

the_pits

Thanks will look into it, I have been told that its been going on for years, god knows how much they are racking in from it, I forgot to mention that sigh says anyone over 12 has to pay, why they use that age one never knows. Would love to find out how many out going passangers they have had over the years. AND I MEAN HAD !!!!!!:mad:

the_pits

Just found this tucked away on their wed site ...................
Passenger Development Fee

With effect from January 2000, Ireland West Airport West has introduced an Airport Development Fee of €10.00 payable by all outbound passengers (excluding children under 12).
The reasons for such a fee are:
to help absorb some of the losses incurred as a result of the abolition of duty free sales
to assist with the future development of Ireland West Airport Knock.

As I said before nothing about this on ticket

Alun

They're operating a similar scheme at Norwich Airport in England. You have to go to a separate desk and buy a ticket, without which you won't get through to the initial security check to get to your flight.

Bards

Waterford Airport has a similar charge albeit smaller

http://www.waterfordairport.ie/ns/content/view/51/107/

paulm17781

I hate that pointless airport more and more...

I'd say check with CAI or other rights groups, the fact you aren't clearly informed first sounds dodgy, as does the fee. Charge and extra €10 for all tickets but forcing you to pay when you're too late.

Ham'nd'egger

paulm17781 wrote: »

I hate that pointless airport more and more...

I'd say check with CAI or other rights groups, the fact you aren't clearly informed first sounds dodgy, as does the fee. Charge and extra €10 for all tickets but forcing you to pay when you're too late.

Would this not actually be the remit of your carrier to charge and handle this levy on your behalf? After all, they quote you fees including "taxes and charges" so one would assume that they have allowed for same?

benbulbin

This has come up a few times before. The regional airports have to generate revenue in order to operate myriad of services required to run a modern facility - ATC, Navigation aids, Fire rescue, ground handling, apron and runway infrastructure, terminal facilities, car parking, baggage screening, staffing, management and marketing to name a few.

Up until last year no significant infrastructure investment was made by the government in regional airports other than occasional marketing support grant. Capital investment from the government has to be matched by the airport also. Regional airports do not have the bankroll available to the state airports and have to do their best to stay profitable in a competitive market where they are at the mercy of low cost airlines who drive hard deals on airport fees in return for passengers, small airports have little bargaining power here.

Several airports have gone down this route of charging a departure fee, which you may not agree with, but it does go twords providing services that might not be available to you otherwise. The departure fee is highlighted top top left of the airport homepage. Ryanair, Bmibaby and XL Airways also highlight it on their booking pages last time I checked, presume Aer Arann do too. http://www.knockairport.com/content.asp?id=55

A lot of the investment might not be visible at first but they have been improving a lot of infrastructure at the Ireland West Airport. Safety improvements including upgraded fire services and runway inspection road were added last year. The instrument landing system is being upgraded this summer to avoid bad weather diversions. Work commenced on the new much larger departures terminal last week. Expanded aircraft parking apron, runway end safety areas and taxiways are on the way also. The terminal in Knock is basic but better than some of the other regional airports, 3 bar areas, shop duty free, 2 cafes and a apron viewing restaurant, good selection of car hire and cheap parking, usually no queues or hassle when I use it.

Ryanair, Bmibaby, XL and Aer Arann/Cityjet currently serves 10 scheduled UK/domestic routes, along with 9 more European holiday destinations. I'm very happy to have access to these jet services in the West, as I'm sure are the rest of the 700,000 due to use that "pointless airport" this year.

Victor

Bards wrote: »

Waterford Airport has a similar charge albeit smaller

http://www.waterfordairport.ie/ns/content/view/51/107/

Well at least Waterford have it "included in ticket price".

Waterford Airport Facilities Charge
Flights booked prior to May 5th - €5 per passenger, charged at check in

Flights booked on or after May 5th - €7 per passenger, included in ticket price

Trampas

I had to pay a fee like this leaving Bali last year.

So its nothing new.

I think Thailand have something similar.

luap_42

benbulbin wrote: »

This has come up a few times before. The regional airports have to generate revenue in order to operate myriad of services required to run a modern facility - ATC, Navigation aids, Fire rescue, ground handling, apron and runway infrastructure, terminal facilities, car parking, baggage screening, staffing, management and marketing to name a few.

Up until last year no significant infrastructure investment was made by the government in regional airports other than occasional marketing support grant. Capital investment from the government has to be matched by the airport also. Regional airports do not have the bankroll available to the state airports and have to do their best to stay profitable in a competitive market where they are at the mercy of low cost airlines who drive hard deals on airport fees in return for passengers, small airports have little bargaining power here.

BenBulben, from your advertising spiel above, you obviously work at Knock or have a vested interest in the management company who are happy to rip off passengers who use the airport.

benbulbin wrote: »

Several airports have gone down this route of charging a departure fee, which you may not agree with, but it does go twords providing services that might not be available to you otherwise. The departure fee is highlighted top top left of the airport homepage. Ryanair, Bmibaby and XL Airways also highlight it on their booking pages last time I checked, presume Aer Arann do too. http://www.knockairport.com/content.asp?id=55 .

There are no indications at booking time of this charge on RyanAir's website on any page when you make a booking involving Knock airport. Furthermore on Ireland West's (Knock Airport's) own website you have to go specifically looking for Airport Development Tax or you will not see it.

In fact RyanAir told passengers to boycott this tax at Knock when it was first introduced, so you can be sure they are not playing ball with the airport. They also said: Far from increasing the cost of using the airport to passengers the management of Knock Airport should be reducing it. We should be welcoming visitors to the West of Ireland not discouraging them from coming by increasing the cost of travel. Not a massive fan of RyanAir, but they have a point.

Why should anyone HAVE to visit the airport website before they travel to find out about extra charges anyway? This is not the way air travel works. All charges should be up front and on the ticket.

benbulbin wrote: »

A lot of the investment might not be visible at first but they have been improving a lot of infrastructure at the Ireland West Airport. Safety improvements including upgraded fire services and runway inspection road were added last year. The instrument landing system is being upgraded this summer to avoid bad weather diversions. Work commenced on the new much larger departures terminal last week. Expanded aircraft parking apron, runway end safety areas and taxiways are on the way also. The terminal in Knock is basic but better than some of the other regional airports, 3 bar areas, shop duty free, 2 cafes and a apron viewing restaurant, good selection of car hire and cheap parking, usually no queues or hassle when I use it.

Ryanair, Bmibaby, XL and Aer Arann/Cityjet currently serves 10 scheduled UK/domestic routes, along with 9 more European holiday destinations. I'm very happy to have access to these jet services in the West, as I'm sure are the rest of the 700,000 due to use that "pointless airport" this year.

Benbulben: Again, you very obviously have vested interests in the airport and the management company. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Sligo address for them now.

This airport management company has the audacity to OPPOSE the latest government tax on airports (which would be transparent to passengers and included on their ticket), while they simultaneously maintain the right to charge €10 per person over 12 years old with no advance notice to passengers whatsoever until you are in no position to make alternative arrangements. This is a shock tactic which no-one can possibly be expected to know about the first time, and is done cynically when the passenger is in no position to object as they will not be allowed to fly if they don't pay.

It is an old style Irish rip off, where they hold a knife to your throat when you least expect it and threaten you if you don't pay when you are at their mercy.
Pathetic to think this kind of thing still happens in Ireland today. I thought this backwards way of fleecing people was a thing of the past.

Why has this management company not fully developed the public transport links to and from the nearest regional transport hubs so that they can be depended upon. The "bus service" rarely shows up.

If they have close to 1 million passengers they are making very bad use of them. Look at Stansted now, it's like a mini-shopping centre. If the management were worth their salt, they would have copied and emulated other isolated yet successful airports. You can be sure these guys are paying themselves well from the "airport development tax".

Colm R

Trampas wrote: »

I had to pay a fee like this leaving Bali last year.

So its nothing new.

I think Thailand have something similar.

Yes, Thailand and Bali have these charges as well as New Zealand and few other countries. But it works better and is very clear when you purchase the flight.

When I booked a flight from Brisbane to Christchurch, the online booking was very clear. There was airport charges and taxes for the flight from Brisbane, but there were no charges when I made my booking for the return flight leaving Christchurch. The booking clearly stated that all taxes and charges are paid at the airport upon departure.

The beauty of this system is you pay the charge only if you fly and don't have to go about the labourous pains of claiming your money back!!

markpb

benbulbin wrote: »

This has come up a few times before. The regional airports have to generate revenue in order to operate myriad of services required to run a modern facility

-SNIP-

Like others have said, your post reads like PR spiel from an airport marketing department. No-one is questioning the airport charge, just it's method of collection. It's a flight charge, it should be included in the ticket price and collected by the carriers. I know several people who've been caught unawares when they were flying out of Knock. Do you normally dig through the airport websites to see if there are any hidden charges? You know that's not normal, right?

On a side note, shouldn't this charge be included in the landing fee charged to the carriers? That fee is supposed to cover the costs associated with handling the airport and *it's passengers*. It sounds like they tried to increase the fee but the carriers told them to stuff it.

serfboard

markpb wrote: »

On a side note, shouldn't this charge be included in the landing fee charged to the carriers? That fee is supposed to cover the costs associated with handling the airport and *it's passengers*. It sounds like they tried to increase the fee but the carriers told them to stuff it.

AFAIK, the airport did want this charge to be included in the ticket price, but Ryanair (and possibly the others) objected, so they had to do it this way.

You can always drive to Galway, Shannon or Dublin if you like, no-one's stopping you. I think you'll find that the price of petrol and the higher car parking charges would easily wipe out your 10 Euro.

I think that most people going to the airport now are aware of this charge and so budget for it. FYI, Galway airport used to have this kind of fee as well, but does not have it anymore. I presume that in time Knock will drop this charge as well.

BTW, since ye seem to think that no-one can make a point in favour of the airport without being a vested interest, neither I, nor anyone I know, works at or for the airport, directly or indirectly.

markpb

serfboard wrote: »

You can always drive to Galway, Shannon or Dublin if you like, no-one's stopping you. I think you'll find that the price of petrol and the higher car parking charges would easily wipe out your 10 Euro. I think that most people going to the airport now are aware of this charge and so budget for it.

My point is that people who are unaware (basically everyone who hasn't flown through Knock since it's introduction) will be caught at the airport and will either have to find the money somewhere (in a recent case passengers had to borrow from other people they didn't know) or abandon their flight. That's no way to do business.

serfboard

markpb wrote: »

My point is that people who are unaware (basically everyone who hasn't flown through Knock since it's introduction) will be caught at the airport and will either have to find the money somewhere (in a recent case passengers had to borrow from other people they didn't know) or abandon their flight. That's no way to do business.

Fair point, it should be advertised better. Is it not somewhere on the website of the airlines or in the emails that they send? If not, it should be.

Davidth88

Kerry also charged this , not sure if they still do.

I remember back in 2001 , I had to pay to leave there.

They used to also have an 'arrival tax'with people collecting money when you arrived , I walked straight past them and told them to get stuffed ( what can they do ? , it was posted as a suggested amount when you arrived virtually no-one paid, they changed it to a departure tax soon afterwards.

Also in China they have a airport tax you must pay before leaving also .

I agree with other posters , I bet the airport tried to charge the airlines and got told to go where the sun doesn't shine so do it this way.

steve-o

As others have said, airport "taxes" in cash on departure are pretty common around the world.

What are Knock to do? They need to levy a fee, but big bully Ryanair refuses to include the "ridiculous fee" in the ticket price.

serfboard

steve-o wrote: »

They need to levy a fee, but big bully Ryanair refuses to include the "ridiculous fee" in the ticket price.

As opposed to their non-ridiculous fees for baggage, credit cards, "taxes & fees" etc. etc.

gjim

Fair point, it should be advertised better. Is it not somewhere on the website of the airlines or in the emails that they send? If not, it should be.

No it shouldn't. It should be included in the per passenger charge to airlines which is then passed on in the ticket price. Whatever about China and other Asian countries, this is the norm in Europe except for the tiniest of airports.

If Knock is forced to do this to support basic functions like ATC, it tells you something about the overall economic viability of the operation. And I don't buy the attempt to blame the great Satan O'Leary for this. I've used Ryanair into and out of airports around Europe which were much smaller than Knock and have yet to be mugged in this fashion on my way onto a flight like this.

luap_42

serfboard wrote: »

BTW, since ye seem to think that no-one can make a point in favour of the airport without being a vested interest, neither I, nor anyone I know, works at or for the airport, directly or indirectly.

You obviously have not read the rest of the postings. Benbulben sounded like an ad-man for Knock airport, and then stated that this fee was clearly listed on various webpages for all to see. Which I found out (and you can too) was and is false in all cases.

serfboard wrote: »

Fair point, it should be advertised better. Is it not somewhere on the website of the airlines or in the emails that they send? If not, it should be.

Again. You obviously didn't read the rest of this post before pressing the submit button.

benbulbin

Quote "Benbulben sounded like an ad-man for Knock airport, and then stated that this fee was clearly listed on various webpages"

I said this because I believed it to be true at the time. XL airways had a notice on their booking page when I flew with them last July. BmiBaby do have a notice on the airport information page: http://bmibaby.com/bmibaby/en/index.aspx?p=3&cf=airportinfo#topOfAirportInfo

Ryanair used to carry a warning in red text on the listing page when you selected a Knock route, it's now gone, possibly removed during their site re-launch last summer, or because O'Leary doesn't want to be seen to support "taxes".

We all agree they should state this clearly, whether you think it is justified or not it should be highlighted upfront at booking.