RX8

Graham_B18C

Sup yall, i'm interested in either buying an Integra or an RX8, but the thing turning me off the rx8 is the fuel consumption. But insurin the integra is ridicilous. But i've also heard bad things about the mazda's engine, one of them being they aint able to handle any mileage, as in someone told me he heard that there have been some that the engine bacicly dies after 30-50k miles but my uncle drives one with 70k miles and its a fantastic car. I think that the engine thing sounds like crap but i'm just makin sure! Any help would be great!

boomboombazza

ya the Mazda has a rotary engine and can need to be rebuilt from time to time. not too clued up on them tbh but i do know they can be tempremental at the best of times

declanoneill

First off, the engine thing is an utter crock. The last gen Rx-7 had trouble and had to be rebuilt every 60k miles (I think it had something to do with the turbo). The Rx-8 doesn't have this trouble (it doesn't have a turbo to begin with) and there are reports of cars with above 60k miles and no problems. There have been some engine failures but such things can happen to any car (some car mag had a Nissan 350Z long term which had to have it's engine replaced).

The fuel consumption is high. I use mine to commute (15 miles per day thru city traffic) and I get 16MPG on a regular week. Best I managed was 19, but by all accounts this is low, even by RX8 standards. (mine is a 231 BTW)

The RX8 takes some TLC e.g. you have to watch your oil levels as it uses about 1L per 1000 miles, by design, but I mine and wouldn't change for anything. Don't buy one with a lot of research into it quirks or you will regret it. Buy one in the knowledge of what you'll have to look out for/do for it and you'll love it.

Take a long look at the UK owners club to read some issues other people have had, and feel free to drop me a PM if you've any questions
RX8OC

Jonny303

Yep, absolout cr*p about engines giving trouble!! Coils can give a little trouble on the older ones but thats about it.

And on the rx-7's, cant remember exactly but I no it was linked in with the turbo. I think poor seals or were causing problems. Nut again on this there is ones known not to have given any trouble, mainly due to the oil being changed every 3000 miles religiously!

Henry Ford III

Rotor tip seals were the issue.

Atomic Pineapple

Yeh the Rx-7 had to have an engine rebuild every 70k miles or so but the Rx-8 doesn't have the same problem at all, I doubt getting insurance on an Rx-8 will be much easier than getting it on an integra?

Graham_B18C

draffodx wrote: »

Yeh the Rx-7 had to have an engine rebuild every 70k miles or so but the Rx-8 doesn't have the same problem at all, I doubt getting insurance on an Rx-8 will be much easier than getting it on an integra?

Belive it or not its a huge difference, I'm 22 and for the integra it'd be about 4000, but on the RX8 its about 2-2500 or so. Even though the bhp is more on the rx8. I can only assume that insurance companies don't like Jap import performance cars, and its the general steriotype that drice Integra's is what jacks up the price, which is a pity coz people like me who aint rough or are buyin it to race can't get em! I was talkin to a fella on this and he said he's 21, 3yrs no claims and drives a 95 m3 insured for 1500 or somethin like that, i can only assume this is because there's few accidents coz it's a more mature fast car!

Graham_B18C

declanoneill wrote: »

First off, the engine thing is an utter crock. The last gen Rx-7 had trouble and had to be rebuilt every 60k miles (I think it had something to do with the turbo). The Rx-8 doesn't have this trouble (it doesn't have a turbo to begin with) and there are reports of cars with above 60k miles and no problems. There have been some engine failures but such things can happen to any car (some car mag had a Nissan 350Z long term which had to have it's engine replaced).

The fuel consumption is high. I use mine to commute (15 miles per day thru city traffic) and I get 16MPG on a regular week. Best I managed was 19, but by all accounts this is low, even by RX8 standards. (mine is a 231 BTW)

The RX8 takes some TLC e.g. you have to watch your oil levels as it uses about 1L per 1000 miles, by design, but I mine and wouldn't change for anything. Don't buy one with a lot of research into it quirks or you will regret it. Buy one in the knowledge of what you'll have to look out for/do for it and you'll love it.

Take a long look at the UK owners club to read some issues other people have had, and feel free to drop me a PM if you've any questions
RX8OC

Brill, really appreciate your help

bibi-phoque

Bought an RX-8 myself last november. If you spend the time in looking for the right one, you shouldn't have too much trouble. Full Mazda Service history is a requirement. Get one with all the toys, when time will come to sell it will help.
Get the 231hp, more wanted than the 192 and insurance is the same price.
As mentioned in the thread, oil needs to be checked regulary. I went through 8L of oil since I got the car. Don't worry if you see some "milk" when checking the oil, consensation can happen (especially during winter when the oil doesn't have to time to heat up). it really scared me the first time!
You can't import them anymore (unless you want to pay 2000€ of tax instead of 450€) so your market is limited.
The only thing that went wrong on mine were the ignition coils. I had to change them after the "check engine light" went on.

Finally, my insurance is 800€ (I have 10 years no claim bonus though). For some reason, Hibernian is very confused about this car, and they have 2 versions in their database. A 1.8 and a 1.3. Got for the 1.3! :-)

The Rx-8 is as good as a S2000 or a 350Z, but you get the same performance and 4 proper seats!

Good luck!

Yann

Chergar

I cant but disagree about the last post there. As a former owner of an RX8, It is definitly not as good as an s2000 or 350z. I will admit i was stupid enough, or perhaps my gf and i were stupid enough to buy the 190 version. Its a tired hard working car. That makes you constantly have to struggle to enjoy it. Yes its fast at the top end, when it gets going. But it takes for ever to get going and its lack of torque is just appaling. I know we will get alot of jap stats flying about after this. But seriously, not even lewis hamilton would be able to drive an rx8 fast consitantly and enjoyably. if you can afford it, a 350 would be a much better job, where as an s2000 is in an altogether different league. I just post this, because your a young guy, who wants a bit of fun. I usually take that as easy fun, and an intergra, or s2000 will give you buckets of that quickly and easily and provide the only thing that really matters when driving around the city limits. Torque.

RobAMerc

Chergar wrote: »

I cant but disagree about the last post there. As a former owner of an RX8, It is definitly not as good as an s2000 or 350z. I will admit i was stupid enough, or perhaps my gf and i were stupid enough to buy the 190 version. Its a tired hard working car. That makes you constantly have to struggle to enjoy it. Yes its fast at the top end, when it gets going. But it takes for ever to get going and its lack of torque is just appaling. I know we will get alot of jap stats flying about after this. But seriously, not even lewis hamilton would be able to drive an rx8 fast consitantly and enjoyably. if you can afford it, a 350 would be a much better job, where as an s2000 is in an altogether different league. I just post this, because your a young guy, who wants a bit of fun. I usually take that as easy fun, and an intergra, or s2000 will give you buckets of that quickly and easily and provide the only thing that really matters when driving around the city limits. Torque.

I'm not sure what your on about - but have you tried changing gear ?

Admittedly I only drove one for about 25miles but I had no problem enjoying the drive.

The RX8 aint in S2000 or 350z territory but its a very different car.

JHMEG

Curious as to why people consider the RX8 a league below the S2000.. the peak torque and power figures are similar.. is it that the RX-8 has apparently no low down torque at all?

I would still be reluctant to believe that Mazda have sorted out the rotor tip problems that the RX-7 had. Altho having said that I'd take an RX-7 any day over an RX-8.

Chergar

First off, RobMerc, seriously is that a point? what do you mean by try changing gear. is that a technical point or just a smart arse comment. when a car operates at 8000 rpm, what exactly do u mean by change gear. with the differntiation so large between the gears, how do u drop down from 7000rpms in 3rd, with no torque to say second gear, to achieve more torque. you cant, because you'd blow the crap out of the car. with such a tiny window for torque, you have to jump up not down, to achive high end torque. thats why the car has no torque in the right places. so what is your point?

but to the other point, ye it has no lowdown torque what so ever. I just dont see the point of it around town, on a track it would be good fun indeed. then you can have it reving its nuts out all day long, but on normal real world enviroments, thats neither practical, possible or enjoyable. That is the point against this car.
and Robmerc, thats coming from someone who actually owned one, then 190 which ridiculously actually had more torque. but im sure you knew that, what from driving one so much.

Henry Ford III

Interesting. This is from another bb (UK based) I use a bit.

The 2 lads are both in the motor trade btw, and will have traded a few RX8's...

"RX8 are (and no I am not being biased) are a pile of pooh after 30k

Excess exhaust heat damaging catalytic convertors and Lambda sensors,
rotor tips wearing out
very poor hot start engine characteristics
etc
etc
etc

Get out of it asap !


I agree totally ****, Ive had a few of them. Drink fuel, drink oil, £400 a year to tax. talk about ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM".

Beta Ray Bill

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Rotor tip seals were the issue.

Bingo!

A friend of mines RX7 went after the tips broke... a lot of damage

He got it repaired though

I think they are called Apex Seals, does anyone know how has the RX8 got around this issue or has it?

OP I think you should bare in mind that on the 7 Mazda would recommend a rebuild at 60k, engine might last to 70 or even 80k (in my mates case) and on that point I doubt very much there are many 8's at that mileage, so how can anyone be sure if they will or will not need a rebuild.

from my understanding the parts between the 7 and the 8 are inter-changeable. isn't it the same engine apart from a turbo? id I'm wrong please say

OP have a chat with the lads on rotarypower.ie hey will be able to give you all the advice you need

declanoneill

grahambo wrote: »

I think they are called Apex Seals, does anyone know how has the RX8 got around this issue or has it?

On the US owners club I'm fairly sure there's owners with over 100k miles

grahambo wrote: »

from my understanding the parts between the 7 and the 8 are inter-changeable. isn't it the same engine apart from a turbo? id I'm wrong please say

The engine in the RX8 is different to the RX7 I don't have the specifics to hand but they are different. The RX8 also has the engine mounted lower and further back as far as I'm aware.

rigal

Mine has 70k on the clock with no problems.

Beta Ray Bill

rigal wrote: »

Mine has 70k on the clock with no problems.

My mates 7 sounded fine, like wasnt a strange noise or anything coming out of it, then one day "BANG" absolutely no warning

This is interesting. We are approaching a point where we we'll find out whether the 8 needs a rebuild or not.

If I owned the 8 i would consider sending it for a rebuild just to be on the safe side... new engine will cost you a fortune. but in saying that im not sure how much a rebuild is LOL.

I hope they dont require rebuilds but i wouldn't be surprised if they did

Are the 8's engine as highly stressed as the 7's?

Henry Ford III

231bhp out of a n/a 1.3 litre displacement is pretty highly stressed ok.

JHMEG

Henry Ford III wrote: »

231bhp out of a n/a 1.3 litre displacement is pretty highly stressed ok.

It's not a reciprocating engine, so the stresses aren't comparable. From all accounts it's not that it's stressed, it's a design flaw/feature that the rotor tips come into contact with the cylinder wall and wear out.

RobAMerc

Chergar wrote: »

First off, RobMerc, seriously is that a point? what do you mean by try changing gear. is that a technical point or just a smart arse comment. when a car operates at 8000 rpm, what exactly do u mean by change gear. with the differntiation so large between the gears, how do u drop down from 7000rpms in 3rd, with no torque to say second gear, to achieve more torque. you cant, because you'd blow the crap out of the car. with such a tiny window for torque, you have to jump up not down, to achive high end torque. thats why the car has no torque in the right places. so what is your point?

but to the other point, ye it has no lowdown torque what so ever. I just dont see the point of it around town, on a track it would be good fun indeed. then you can have it reving its nuts out all day long, but on normal real world enviroments, thats neither practical, possible or enjoyable. That is the point against this car.
and Robmerc, thats coming from someone who actually owned one, then 190 which ridiculously actually had more torque. but im sure you knew that, what from driving one so much.

I don't understand half of the waffle your on about here changing gear to get more torque ( I'm not sure you do either ) - my point is the car is plenty powerful, admittedly you need to keep it spinning to get the best of the power but thats what driving a sports car is all about, keeping the car on the boil and in peak power.
Who the hell is looking for torque at 8k revs ?

rigal

grahambo wrote: »

My mates 7 sounded fine, like wasnt a strange noise or anything coming out of it, then one day "BANG" absolutely no warning

This is interesting. We are approaching a point where we we'll find out whether the 8 needs a rebuild or not.

If I owned the 8 i would consider sending it for a rebuild just to be on the safe side... new engine will cost you a fortune. but in saying that im not sure how much a rebuild is LOL.

I hope they dont require rebuilds but i wouldn't be surprised if they did

Are the 8's engine as highly stressed as the 7's?

So how would I know if it needed a rebuild then? Would that not cost serious wedge, and possibly be unecessary?:(

I mean, the car runs well and has just been given a full service by the dealer and given a clean bill of health.

Beta Ray Bill

rigal wrote: »

So how would I know if it needed a rebuild then? Would that not cost serious wedge, and possibly be unecessary?:(

I mean, the car runs well and has just been given a full service by the dealer and given a clean bill of health.

To be 100% honest with you dude, I don't know. I can only draw from the experience I've seen first had with rotary engines.

to be 100% honest I don't even think there is anyone in Ireland that can PROPERLY rebuild the engine. I know there is 1 lad out in Bray... we went out there about 4 months ago and there was rx7's all over the place! I believe his name is Eddie, and hes good but to get an engine rebuild from him, you could be waiting a good few months.

again my advice is to ask the guys on rotarypower.ie they would know for defo ( I could be wrong )

Chergar

RobMerc, seriously, i dont mean to be a smart arse, but i think you are totaly missing the point, The RX8 only has top end torque. Thats where you get it, at the 6000- 8000rpm range.Thus the point that anyone would think wanting torque at that rev level to be mad, is a very strange comment. Thats how it works, thats the genius of it. There is no torque through the gear differentials, That means between changing up, and coming into the torque band is a big gap. So unlike in a normal car, when you need torque, you have a much larger window to gain that torque, because it picks up from 3-5rpm depending on the car. thus a smaller Torque range. when a car only lives in the 6000-8000rpm range, then its band is much smaller, so when you change up, you lose torque. So if you dont understand something, that doesnt mean you have to make fun of it and take the piss out of a disscusion. This is about cars, not about personaly taking the piss out of people.

Henry Ford III

JHMEG wrote: »

It's not a reciprocating engine, so the stresses aren't comparable. From all accounts it's not that it's stressed, it's a design flaw/feature that the rotor tips come into contact with the cylinder wall and wear out.

I appreciate the difference. Either way it's a lot of power per litre.

DemonOfTheFall

From what I've read, the RX-8 will not eat rotor tips if you keep oil in it. The reason it frinks 1L/1000km or whatever is by design. It drinks oil to stop itself from eating rotor tips.

JHet

rigal wrote: »

So how would I know if it needed a rebuild then? Would that not cost serious wedge, and possibly be unecessary?:(

I mean, the car runs well and has just been given a full service by the dealer and given a clean bill of health.

Never mind the naysayers who haven't done their research and don't even know what a rotary engine is. I mean to that guy who just went window shopping with his gf and ended up with an RX-8, what an idiot. You don't go out and buy a car like that and not read up on its quirks, characteristics, flaws (and yes there are a few flaws). Its not like a regular car with a piston engine. You can't drive it like an M3 or something which has bags of torque. You have to rev the nuts off it to get the full performance. Thats what your buying into. Thats the whole point of the car. My best advice to you is get onto the RX-8 Owners forum Uk and start reading the posts on there. Please bear in mind though that people are inherently far more likely to post about problems they have had rather than the thousands of owners out there who have had little or none. You might find a few shocking ones on there but don't let that put you off as this is generally the exception rather than the rule. The RX-8 isn't just any old ordinary car. It has to be loved and cherished. Its a sports car for God sake. It doesn't burn oil, it uses it as part of the running of the engine. I believe a lot of the problems came from many owners not knowing what to do to maintain the car properly. For me, I enjoy it. There are issues with flooding. However there is a procedure for starting the car. Read up on it in the UK forum. Personally I've stuck by it from day one and have never flooded the car. Issues to look out for would be cold/start warm start. Make sure the car can do this without issue. Rust on the sump, broken droplinks etc. Also verify that all the recalls have been. There were a few for the RX-8 namely
-Oil Cooler Pipes,
-Wheel Arch Liner Replacement
-Firmware Update
-ECU Flash.

It will depend on the year your buying. The only way to check if the engine needs to be rebuild is to do a compression test on it but believe me a car that failed a compression would be well down on power. If you've driven a few you'll know what they should feel like. If it compares favourably to those then it should be fine. Service history is a must, and since its rotary nothing but full mazda is acceptable in my book. Mind you there are a few UK owners who do it themselves but they know their RX-8's inside out. A lot of mechanics wouldn't have the first clue about how to work on a rotary but of course the mazda guys will.

Well all i can say is, if you do end up gettin one enjoy it man, and make sure you redline her once in a while. Puts a smile on my face everyday. It really is one heck of a car. If you have the right attitude about it you'll absolutly love it. The 231 is the one to go for. One with leather and all the bells and whistles. Anyway, best of luck with it mate.;)

JHet

JHMEG

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I appreciate the difference. Either way it's a lot of power per litre.

It is, but I find the S2000's 237bhp 2.0L n/a, which also revs to 9k rpm but is a reciprocal 4 stroke, more impressive. It's also a bit more fuel efficient.

milltown

JHMEG wrote: »

It is, but I find the S2000's 237bhp 2.0L n/a, which also revs to 9k rpm but is a reciprocal 4 stroke, more impressive. It's also a bit more fuel efficient.

You would!

Vertakill

bibi-phoque wrote: »

The Rx-8 is as good as a S2000 or a 350Z, but you get the same performance and 4 proper seats!

Definitely, definitely not true. 350Z > S2000 > RX8.

The S2000 gives the 350Z a run for it's money, but the 350Z still wins. The RX8 doesn't really come that close. There's over 50bhp difference between a Z and it, and a HELL of a lot of torque between the two cars. I'd like to see an RX8 power out of a corner like a 350Z does.

I like(d) the RX8, but to be honest, they drink oil and petrol. I mean, the sheer thought of doing 16mpg is sickening. I have a 350Z and I get about 21-25mpg and that's not too great. For me at the moment, 2 seats are fine as I'm 22 and I don't plan on any family, and my mates have their own cars. From time to time 4 seats would be handy but it's not too bad.
For performance, the RX8 is probably nearer the bottom of the range for it's category, if anything.
For looks, I personally (biased) think the 350Z looks better. Especially considering the RX8 has a really hairdresser style stigma stuck to it.

Btw RobAMerc, not quite sure what you're saying because you kind of contradicted yourself a few times.
I personally don't want to have to red line my car to get torque out of it - that wrecked my head in the 190bhp Celica (having to reach 6k to get full potential).
I love being able to feel the power of my car at pretty much any revs because of the broad range of torque. I could be plodding along at about 2k rpm in 4th gear and I could floor it and still get moving quickly - I'd like to see you do that in an RX8.
Can you imagine trying to fly up a steep hill with 4 adults in your car... forget about it.

If I absolutely HAD to have 4+ seats and a powerful coupe, I'd just buy an e46 M3. More powerful, more reliable and better mpg... oh and you won't look like a homo/metrosexual.

JHet

JHMEG wrote: »

It is, but I find the S2000's 237bhp 2.0L n/a, which also revs to 9k rpm but is a reciprocal 4 stroke, more impressive. It's also a bit more fuel efficient.

Horses for courses. Thats why some buy RX-8's and some buy S2000's. In there own right two very impressive engines, but two very different cars!