RX8

JHMEG

milltown wrote: »

You would!

Highest specific output of any normally aspirated engine for 9 years straight. Not bad going by anyone's standards.

JHet wrote:

Horses for courses. Thats why some buy RX-8's and some buy S2000's. In there own right two very impressive engines, but two very different cars!

I absolutely agree... But I can't help but think that the RX-8 would have been a better car if they had put in an engine like that of the S2000 tho.

FOGOFUNK

The Rx8 is really well engineered car. 231BHP with 1500Kg's. It doesnt have much torque at all. The weight disdribution is unreal, the rotary engine is compact and light and sits behind the front wheels, the gearbox is in the back and the car has an limited slip diff as standard. All this adds up to one serious cornering car.

You can drive the engine in the 8 to well past 100k miles if oil is kept in it. The renisis engine in the 8 was redesigned from the 13b(engine in the Rx7) for durability!!

There is really no choice between an Rx8 and an Integra. Rx8 is way out on top.

Integras are just light, front wheel drive, stripped out toy cars. They dont come with half the stuff you get in the 8 (But they have bright red recaro's woohoo:rolleyes:)


(Off topic, I think this is the first thread ive ever read anywhere, where someone has recomended a honda if someone wants low down torque?If he wanted low end torque he'd buy a ****ing diesel!)

dmaprelude

Just check out www.irishrotary.ie rx8 is a whole different kettle of fish to the rx7 engine wise, not a single rx8 has needed to be rebuilt in Ireland and only 1 in England due to the owner never checking the oil and running it dry, also as long as you're not importing an 08 model, the road tax will still be the usual amount not €2,000 as previously stated

Ferris

There are plenty of reports of Rx8 engine letting go in the UK due to them not liking short runs where the engine does not get up to running temperature. So actually low mileage cars can be at the same risk as high mileage ones. The first sign of problems is when the engine won't start easily when warm.

Also they have a rep for burning out their cat converters.

Apart from that they're meant to be great cars, fantastic handling etc although they're supposed to be a bit twitchy in the wet. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one if I wanted one but I would get a compression test done on the engine first.

bibi-phoque

http://www.rx8club.com/ is also a good reference. I did a lot of reading before buying one.
The RX-8 is much more reliable than the RX-7, and beside the flooding issue (which has never happened to me so Mazda must have fixed it), it is a brillant car. This car is the only reason why I drive through the mountain to go from Citywest to Arcklow :-)
With the 50/50 distribution and the limited diff, it's a lot of car for the money.
And even though I love sport car, I had to keep in mind that it must be able to carry 4 people in confort (that was the compromise :-)). Well it does.
I drove a 350Z in the US and I could barely fit a suitcase into it...
Haven't drove mine in Mondello yet, might do the VIP track day in August...

The RX-8 will become a rare car in Ireland, since 2008 version and import will not attact anybody based on the emission of the car. Carzone went from 80 RX-8 on sale to 62 since the 1st of July. Get yours now!

cpoh1

This is an interesting topic for me since my partner is looking for a new motor and had narrowed it down to either an S2000, RX8 or 350Z. All can be gotten for under 20k these days in great condition.

I test drove each car over the last 3 months, I borrowed a friends rx8 (231 model) for a weekend while he was away, had an s2000 for a day from a honda garage in cork and spent 45mins in the 350Z from a different garage. All are fabulous cars but this is what i stood out for me. The S2000 has feck all space, the rx8 costs more to run than a porsche and the 350Z not much less. The S2000 was by far the quickest of the three on any kind of road with bends and "felt" the fastest too even at legal speeds due to its size and soft top roof. It just felt rawer than the other two. The 350Z sounds amazing and looks fantastic too but the cost to tax the bloody thing put us off. The rx8 really is a super package, by far the most space of the 3 and the nicest interior too, we just loved those dials BUT you simply couldnt live with the fuel consumption. Now I get 14mpg max from my skyline but the reward is there with the performance it offers but the frustrating thing about the rx8 was that it was the slowest of the three and still burned juice like it was going out of fashion! My friend is thinking of selling his after only 5 months ownership.

Were going for the S2000. Bullit proof engine, cheaper to run fuel wise than the 350Z and rx8 and more fun to drive and faster on back roads. Only problem is the space but we'll just have to use another car if we are lugging stuff around!

cpoh1

bibi-phoque wrote: »

The RX-8 is much more reliable than the RX-7, and beside the flooding issue (which has never happened to me so Mazda must have fixed it), it is a brillant car. This car is the only reason why I drive through the mountain to go from Citywest to Arcklow :-)
With the 50/50 distribution and the limited diff, it's a lot of car for the money.
And even though I love sport car, I had to keep in mind that it must be able to carry 4 people in confort (that was the compromise :-)). Well it does.
I drove a 350Z in the US and I could barely fit a suitcase into it...
Haven't drove mine in Mondello yet, might do the VIP track day in August...

The RX-8 will become a rare car in Ireland, since 2008 version and import will not attact anybody based on the emission of the car. Carzone went from 80 RX-8 on sale to 62 since the 1st of July. Get yours now!

Buying a used rx8 in the uk and importing will cost you the same to tax as an irish car of the same year once its older than 2008. VRT will rise though but not more than a grand. They are fantastic value for money though, an early 2005 231 model with low mileage and all the bells and whistles can be had from the uk for under 20k all in. If you are buyin one importing from the uk is the only way to go.

However the flooding issue is still there. I owned an rx7 a few years back and it was fine reliability wise if you were prepared to look after it. No cold runs, no short spins and oil changes every 3k miles. The rx8 is exactly the same in this regard and hates trips down the road to the shops.

bibi-phoque

One more thing in regard to performance because I am seen a lot of thread saying that the 8 is not in the same league as other famous sport car :
If well driven (by the stig :-), the 8 get the same lap time as an M3 or 350Z on the top gear track :

63 - Mazda RX8 - 1.31.8
64 - Nissan 350Z - 1.31.8
65 - BMW M3 - 1.31.8

bibi-phoque

cpoh1 wrote: »

Buying a used rx8 in the uk and importing will cost you the same to tax as an irish car of the same year once its older than 2008. VRT will rise though but not more than a grand. They are fantastic value for money though, an early 2005 231 model with low mileage and all the bells and whistles can be had from the uk for under 20k all in. If you are buyin one importing from the uk is the only way to go.

If you import it now, you road tax will be based on the CO2, not the cc. It will cost you more in road tax than an <08 irish car.

cpoh1

bibi-phoque wrote: »

If you import it now, you road tax will be based on the CO2, not the cc. It will cost you more in road tax than an <08 irish car.

If its older than a 2008 car it will be taxed on the old system. So no if you import an rx8 from the uk tomorrow it'll be taxed as a 1.8L or 1.3L whichever you are luckier to haggle!

bibi-phoque

You are right, my bad.
http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernment/MotorTax/PublicationsDocuments/FileDownLoad,16978,en.doc
I thought I was up to date on this road tax, but apparently not.
Then, it is much better to get the 8 from the UK, more extras. I got mine from Surrey and it was straight forward. I did miss my boat though, didn't plan on a accident on the M40 :-)

RobAMerc

Chergar wrote: »

RobMerc, seriously, i dont mean to be a smart arse, but i think you are totaly missing the point, The RX8 only has top end torque. Thats where you get it, at the 6000- 8000rpm range.Thus the point that anyone would think wanting torque at that rev level to be mad, is a very strange comment. Thats how it works, thats the genius of it. There is no torque through the gear differentials, That means between changing up, and coming into the torque band is a big gap. So unlike in a normal car, when you need torque, you have a much larger window to gain that torque, because it picks up from 3-5rpm depending on the car. thus a smaller Torque range. when a car only lives in the 6000-8000rpm range, then its band is much smaller, so when you change up, you lose torque. So if you dont understand something, that doesnt mean you have to make fun of it and take the piss out of a disscusion. This is about cars, not about personaly taking the piss out of people.

So what you are actually saying is that the engine has a very small power band (between 6 and 8k) and you don't think the gearing is correctly chosen to keep you in that power band. Fine.

My suggestion about changing gears was to spin the engine up to within the power band and keep it there not rely on the low end grunt (ie trying to pull away from 1k revs ) - Its as simple as that

You will find that most high revving engines sacrifice the low end torque (larger inlet valves and a shorter stroke) for higher end power and its the drivers job to figure out how to get the best out of it.

If you want low end torque - buy a diesel, but ultimately speed comes from power.

Vertakill

bibi-phoque wrote: »

One more thing in regard to performance because I am seen a lot of thread saying that the 8 is not in the same league as other famous sport car :
If well driven (by the stig :-), the 8 get the same lap time as an M3 or 350Z on the top gear track :

63 - Mazda RX8 - 1.31.8
64 - Nissan 350Z - 1.31.8
65 - BMW M3 - 1.31.8

I think you've just proven how you should never take Top Gear's lap times too seriously!

OP: cpoh1 made some valid points there a few posts ago, might be worth looking at!

RX8: Not as powerful/quick/high revving and fun car and can hold 4 people - Woeful MPG.
S2000: Very quick/fun high revving car - Small engine (cheap tax) - 2 seater and absolutely no space. Very light and nimble.
350Z: Very quick/fun huge torque - Big engine (€1500 tax) - 2 seater, can fit 2 golf bags in the boot. Loads of room in front. Very stiff, heavy and powerful.


It's funny to think how closely matched the S2000 and the 350Z are and they're the complete opposite of each other in so many ways.

To add the Integra to that summary would be an insult to the other 3 cars!

Vertakill

I think what Chergar is trying to say (correct me if I'm wrong!) is that when you gear up you're constantly dropping out of your high end torque and the car has fk all torque as it is. So unless you plan on driving around constantly at 6k (bye bye already shít mpg) you will have no torque on offer.

For example, you're cruising along at 2k rpm and you're stuck behind someone and want to overtake. You've gotta drop 1-2 gears to make it even slightly safe to go by them. That's also not even remotely healthy to be dumping the clutch like that.

The S2000 has no torque either, but it's still got more than the RX8 and it's got better mpg and you won't be pumping oil into it either. It does have only 2 seats though!

Henry Ford III

S2000 under the new tax system is a wrong'un also I think.

Taken from Honest John on the Rx8.....

What's Bad
Must check oil every second fill of petrol, but actually uses no more than many conventional cars.

Recommended oil Dexelia ultra 5W-30 semi synthetic.

Car must NEVER be started then shut down without reaching full operating temperature or petrol washout will harm rotor seals. Car must not be used for short runs from cold. CO2 284g/km, so Group G VED (£300pa 2007/8; £400pa from 2008).
What to Watch Out For
On very early 2003 cars, lower suspension arm ball joint and/or entire arm can fail so make sure recall work below has been carried out.

Make sure a heat shield has been installed between exhaust pipe and plastic fuel tank (particularly important on independent imports which also means ALL automatics).

Apparently, if the car is stationary for a long time with the revs running high the exhaust ports of the engine can melt, resulting in red hot molten metal shooting into the cat converter, spiking it.

Have been some early clutch failures, after as little as 11,500 miles. New clutch £940 and unlike original clutches apparently warranted for 2 years or 24k miles.

Pipe from oil cooler corrodes, leading to severe oil leak and a seized engine.

Water gets into the self levelling Xenon headlight electrics and replacing both is quotes at £1,501.54.

Anti roll bar links can fail after 3 years.

Cats also prone to failure if the car has either been over-revved or driven short runs from cold (£1,011.31 at Mazda prices).
Recalls
7-5-2004 (build 28-7-03 to 29-8-03): Possible cracking of dynamic damper heat insulator. 10-8-2005 (build 28-7-2003 to 27-12-2003) Cracks may occur in lower suspension arm (check exact VINs on Recalls Database). 10-8-2005 (build 28-7-03 to 1-7-2005): Possible fuel leak (check exact VINs on Recalls Database). (TSB to fit heat shield between exhaust system and fuel tank) 28-8-2006 news from the USA that ALL RX-8's to be recalled in order that (where necessary*) new engines to be fitted free of charge.

Chergar

Thanks Vertakill, Thats exactly what i was trying to say. This has nothing to do with whether it is a good or a bad thing. What the RX& provides is something that is great on a race track. But driving around town at 6-8rpm is not very pleasurable or econmical. It has nothing to do with having lots of low end torque. If you had low end torque then yes you would have a diesel. This is about having 'some' low to mid range torque. Which as Vertakill pointed out the rx8 has none. It's a bit mad how personnaly people take these issues. I had an Rx8. I dont care if someone critics it. But lads, come on, just cause you own one doesnt make it a 430. Lets be sensible here. And recommending a honda integra over an rx8 doesnt mean that either of them is a great option. An Integra is an awful looking front wheel drive plastic box. But those were his choices I just think, it would be better value for someone looking for some easy fun. I hated my Rx8. Why so Personal guys?

Triangle

Vertakill wrote: »

I think you've just proven how you should never take Top Gear's lap times too seriously!

RX8: Not as powerful/quick/high revving and fun car and can hold 4 people - Woeful MPG.
S2000: Very quick/fun high revving car - Small engine (cheap tax) - 2 seater and absolutely no space. Very light and nimble.
350Z: Very quick/fun huge torque - Big engine (€1500 tax) - 2 seater, can fit 2 golf bags in the boot. Loads of room in front. Very stiff, heavy and powerful.

Vertakill,

The Rx-8 makes up the loss of power on the corners, it's by far the fastest cornering of the three but out of the corners lacks the acceleration of the other two. Putting down the Top Gear times as meaningless is crude.
Check out other tracks and you'll see the rx-8 is up there with the others.

I find it a really enjoyable drive as you do work the car, unlike driving an automatic (i.e. a car you don't need to work) which i'd find boring that's just my personal opinion and why i bought one.

cpoh1

Triangle wrote: »

Vertakill,

The Rx-8 makes up the loss of power on the corners, it's by far the fastest cornering of the three but out of the corners lacks the acceleration of the other two. Putting down the Top Gear times as meaningless is crude.
Check out other tracks and you'll see the rx-8 is up there with the others.

Having driven all three I take issue with that. The s2000 was a much better car on twisty sections than the rx8. Its lighter, has more power and near perfect 50/50 weight distibution. The rx8 is a solid handler but look at nurburgring lap times, the rx8 comes last of the three.

JHMEG

Vertakill wrote: »

To add the Integra to that summary would be an insult to the other 3 cars!

Is it?

According to this video, it's quicker on the track than the RX-8. There are others I'm sure that will show it the other way around, but to me it says the ITR and RX-8 are close enough...

C_Breeze

Load of crap on this thread tbh honest and misinformed people that shouldnt be psoting ... but hey - thats the wonder of the internet.

Anyway i think that an Rx-8 and 350Z are completely mismatched "competitors" so to speak ... 1 has 60bhp more, more torque, less seats, and a 3.5 engine ... for tax basis an RX-8 is 1.8!

2 totally different cars imho

and as jhmeg says i would consider RX-8 competitors to be audi TT's , Integra Type R DC5s, Alfa brera v6 etc

Oh and Chergar is only bitter cos he had the 190 version that was pointless

BNC

Oh and Chergar is only bitter cos he had the 190 version that was pointless

With the 5 speed gearbox.

Seriously though lads, where in town and urban driving would you be red lining the 8 anyway? :rolleyes:

It really comes into its own on clear roads/motorway driving, or pulling away from garages (after another fillup!).

Oh, and yes, I do own an RX8 and love every minute of it. Knew exactly what I was buying and how to drive it to get the most out of it.

C_Breeze

BNC wrote: »

Oh, and yes, I do own an RX8 and love every minute of it. Knew exactly what I was buying and how to drive it to get the most out of it.

Exactly! ... same as myself

cpoh1

C_Breeze wrote: »

Load of crap on this thread tbh honest and misinformed people that shouldnt be psoting ... but hey - thats the wonder of the internet.

Anyway i think that an Rx-8 and 350Z are completely mismatched "competitors" so to speak ... 1 has 60bhp more, more torque, less seats, and a 3.5 engine ... for tax basis an RX-8 is 1.8!

2 totally different cars imho

and as jhmeg says i would consider RX-8 competitors to be audi TT's , Integra Type R DC5s, Alfa brera v6 etc

Oh and Chergar is only bitter cos he had the 190 version that was pointless

Well then seeing as there's so much crap in this thread why dont you enlighten us with some detailed informative opinion instead. Can you tell me what the rx8 has over the s2000 purely from a performance and driving pleasure perspective? Have you even driven either the s2k or the 350z?

The reason the 350Z, s2000 and rx8 are all in the same bracket for my partner was because they are all rwd, all in the same price bracket and with roughly the same performance figures and sporting pretensions. Some would even say that the money spent on tax on the 350Z would be made up by better fuel consumption throughout the year! Remember that everybody thinks their own wife is the prettiest!

BNC

cpoh1 wrote: »

Well then seeing as there's so much crap in this thread why dont you enlighten us with some detailed informative opinion instead. Can you tell me what the rx8 has over the s2000 purely from a performance and driving pleasure perspective? Have you even driven either the s2k or the 350z?

The reason the 350Z, s2000 and rx8 are all in the same bracket for my partner was because they are all rwd, all in the same price bracket and with roughly the same performance figures and sporting pretensions. Some would even say that the money spent on tax on the 350Z would be made up by better fuel consumption throughout the year! Remember that everybody thinks their own wife is the prettiest!

Personally I haven't driven either car, wasn't interested in them. I wanted a pure bred sports car (not a converted saloon) with four seats that was quick of the line, handled well and not too many about. I couldn't care less about who can get to the petrol station the quickest with the most torque etc etc etc.

And my wife certainly is pretty, can't comment on yours though! :D

cpoh1

BNC wrote: »

Personally I haven't driven either car, wasn't interested in them. I wanted a pure bred sports car (not a converted saloon) with four seats that was quick of the line, handled well and not too many about. I couldn't care less about who can get to the petrol station the quickest with the most torque etc etc etc.

And my wife certainly is pretty, can't comment on yours though! :D

The fact that you think the s2000 is a converted saloon tells me you know nothing about cars. Maybe you should have driven the other two because the rx8 is the most common of the lot on the roads, is the slowest in a straight line and most would say doesnt handle as well as the s2000.

Would you not think that the s2k and 350Z are pure bred sports cars and the rx8 is a compromise from mazda between practicality and sporty pretensions with its 4 doors and large boot?

BNC

Oh dear... I wasn't referring to the other two as saloons. I am well aware of what they are. As I said, I wasn't interested in either of them, 4 seats were a requirement for me.

Good man though you hit it on the head for what I was looking for although i have omitted your "pretensions" bit...

Practicality and sporty with 4 doors and large(ish!) boot.

Henry Ford III

So much anger here.

I could understand if we were talking about track handling here, but we are talking about road cars.

Chergar

C_Breeze wrote: »

Oh and Chergar is only bitter cos he had the 190 version that was pointless

What are you on about? Bitter? we have discussed this before. I have long since gotten rid of my bitterness. Wasted away in pure bitter was i. Untill i realised there was a world outside the massive FANBOY club that is the RX8. And yes i actually agree with you, the 190 was pointless, slow, cumbersome, ugly wideboys car but nothing i said was actually not accurate, something we have agreed on before. I just think its a bit mad to be calling it a sports car. As for the chap who said he wanted a pure bred sports car with four doors, EH... Paradox dont you think? and then to follow it up with torque not being important. WHAT A MUPPET. however Cbreeze your not a muppet, we actually agreed on most things, because you can talk about facts, not the sad bizarre people who make **** up to steady their argument.

Vertakill

JHMEG, I was trying to be kind to the RX8, considering this thread is all about the RX8 and considering there are quite a lot of fanbois watching each post.
(Btw, I love BMI, but they have a tendency of doing weird **** on their races. eg. Telling everyone to turn off TCS and then an M3 winning it hands down, while you watch the TCS flicking on the dash when watching the in-car view.)

So I'm just going to say it and get it over with -
I don't think the RX8 or the Integra are in the same league as the 350Z or S2k.

I think the RX8 needs to make it's mind up. It's a jack of all trades, but master of none.

It wants to be a sports car, but it fails:
Because it's woeful torque and it's not even going to beat the Z or S2K on handling. [It may marginally edge a Z going into the corner as it's so much lighter, but then it loses a ****load of ground as soon as the two cars power out of the corner because of it's lack of torque].

It wants to be a practical, but it fails:
4 seats, if that is a must, then fair enough. It's a nice small nippy car that can take 4 people. However, I wouldn't consider sub 20mpg to be practical and the cost of running is quite high also.

The S2K and the 350Z are pure sports cars and they don't try to be anything else. This is why they're both good at what they do. The RX8 is a diluted sports car.
Don't get me wrong, I know they're great fun to drive and it's good car. But the 350Z and S2K are a lot better.

If you want a sports car, I wouldn't get an RX8 (350Z, S2K and many more are better). If you want a fast, but practical car, I wouldn't get an RX8 either (M3, S4 would be my choice).

You'll see an AWFUL lot more RX8's than 350z's or S2000's because they tick a lot of boxes for people that are interested, and they are a good car, but they don't excel in anything which is why I personally wouldn't get one.

voxpop

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Taken from Honest John on the Rx8.....

Wouldnt touch one with a barge pole after that write up - reminds me of a Renault Laguna