12MB BB from 10 miles over a wireless link?

johnplayerblue

First off, could mods please leave this in the bb foroum? For readers of my rants and raves over the last week you will know where i stand with broadband, eircom etc etc.

Just got off the phone with my brother and it turns out he's moving into a rented house with two mates of his and the house has a 12MB Magnet connection. Now maybe some of you can see where this might be going, especially when i say he lives 9/10 miles away from me on the outskirts of Portlaois.

Suppose i had a budget of say 500euro and wanted to set up a wireless link over that distance what broadcasting/receiving hardware are we talking about. In my own place i have a simple 802.11n with wpa2 AES running and have set up a few wlans in the past but nothing on this scale, now even if i couldn't make it happen the joy of trying out such an expeiment would be worth every penny.

I'm a mature student having passed first year 07/08 of a BSc in Computer Network Administration and also have 2 semesters of the ccna completed this year and starting Cisco Wireless in August as part of my degre and the knowledge gained from this would be worth its weight in gold.

My reason for the last paragraph is just to explain that i would'nt be a complete green horn and to a certain degree understand spectrum and the limitations of the unlicensed band and what is possible and what is not and i think that with the proper directional antenas, power and security i might just solve my 10yr old bb problem and as i said have some fun and learn a lot along the way.

So to cut a rather long post short(sorry) can i do it and if so i would need an accurate shopping list. I'm gona post this on the Irishwan site also but there are some very smart and knowledgeable people here who will tell me straight up if this is more than just techinaccly possible but possible for an ametour/novice.

Spear

A user called FusionNet does Wimax for things like this. Talk to him for quotes.

Moriarty

It's entirely possible if you have line of sight between the two sites. Irishwan had/have links going well over 30km on unlicensed spectrum.

You'll probably get a better response on the Irishwan forum regarding the specific gear to get

johnplayerblue

Moriarty wrote: »

It's entirely possible if you have line of sight between the two sites. Irishwan had/have links going well over 30km on unlicensed spectrum.

You'll probably get a better response on the Irishwan forum regarding the specific gear to get

I guess the line of sight would be the starting point but thinking about it i wouldn't really know if i had LOS unless i actualy went and set the thing up.

I live 2mls from Digiwebs basestation which has a broadcasting range of about 5mls but because of LOS or the lack there of i can't avail of there service, i can get there signal, 5 bar in fact but as the installer was about to install they called him to say leave it that the signal was to faint there end.

Ok, so theres my starting point, how to find if i have LOS from 10mls? gps/sat nav perhaps?

Maints

Binoculars (and/or telescope) work well to determine LOS. Google earth is another useful tool for LOS. 10 miles is easily done and the Irishwan site has plenty of typical setups to achieve this.

Have fun!

Paul.

watty

However without REALLY expensive gear, expect to get 1Mbps at that distance.

PogMoThoin

Ordinance Survey Ireland Trailmaster should be your starting point. It gives the lie of the land. Pinpoint your 2 locations and do a cross section. It will not however show trees etc, you must further survey by sight using binoculars to determine best route.

bushy...

Just did a quick test , not quite as long a hop but not far of afaik ( not my setup) , cheap gear, returned 12.7Mbps average.

Marlow

In general, you can get around 12 mbit on equipment for around 250-300 EUR. If you up the bar a bit .. around 500-600 EUR, you'll be able to get that full-duplex.

However, LoS and top signals are a must and I do not recommend Cisco Wireless for stunts like this. It's just not up to the task.

Look for something like Mikrotik Routerboards or similar. You can find a lot of help for things like this in the community networks like TheWan

/Martin

johnplayerblue

Marlow wrote: »

In general, you can get around 12 mbit on equipment for around 250-300 EUR. If you up the bar a bit .. around 500-600 EUR, you'll be able to get that full-duplex.

However, LoS and top signals are a must and I do not recommend Cisco Wireless for stunts like this. It's just not up to the task.

Look for something like Mikrotik Routerboards or similar. You can find a lot of help for things like this in the community networks like TheWan

/Martin

Very nice Marlow, Thankyou.
Been doing a lot of reading on this and in particular my favorite band(ism) and i have to say i had no idea that 2.4/2.45GHz was such a powerfull band if used with some imagination. Amazing stuff, the old 800MHz band has a lot to offer also.

Marlow

johnplayerblue wrote: »

Been doing a lot of reading on this and in particular my favorite band(ism) and i have to say i had no idea that 2.4/2.45GHz was such a powerfull band if used with some imagination. Amazing stuff, the old 800MHz band has a lot to offer also.

Well,
if you are in a city or bigger village, you might want to opt for 5 GHz, instead of 2.4 GHz.

It's a bit more difficult to get it right, but you'd have less problems with interference from consumer devices like video senders, wifi routers etc.

With a HAM license, there will also be 10.5 GHz band available for non-commercial use soon. But equipment would be pricy.

/Martin

johnplayerblue

I meant to ask Martin do you know if ther was anything in Ireland like the amateur radio novice licence such as that in the UK.

I'm reading there examination handbook at the moment along with radio systems for technicians and a little bit of physics and i have to sat it's by far the more intresting part of my studys,

i do love networks but the inner workings of routhing protocols and fragmentation and reassembly is is starting to wear me down a little where as with the radio/wireless i can get my hands dirty and get results.

Marlow

To my knowledge there is only the general HAM radio license and that requires everything from hardware to physics to good behaviour.

It's that way or the highway, I'm afraid.

/Martin

fatboymsport

as a simple test get 2 good quality pmr446 walki talki's and see if you can communicate over that range.

if not then you might have a problem.

if you cant get digiweb and the are on a high site the chances of your brothers house being in the clear are also really unlikely.

www.irts.ie for all the ham info you need but there is nothing in ham radio that would help you with this problem.

craichoe

johnplayerblue wrote: »

First off, could mods please leave this in the bb foroum? For readers of my rants and raves over the last week you will know where i stand with broadband, eircom etc etc.

Just got off the phone with my brother and it turns out he's moving into a rented house with two mates of his and the house has a 12MB Magnet connection. Now maybe some of you can see where this might be going, especially when i say he lives 9/10 miles away from me on the outskirts of Portlaois.

Suppose i had a budget of say 500euro and wanted to set up a wireless link over that distance what broadcasting/receiving hardware are we talking about. In my own place i have a simple 802.11n with wpa2 AES running and have set up a few wlans in the past but nothing on this scale, now even if i couldn't make it happen the joy of trying out such an expeiment would be worth every penny.

I'm a mature student having passed first year 07/08 of a BSc in Computer Network Administration and also have 2 semesters of the ccna completed this year and starting Cisco Wireless in August as part of my degre and the knowledge gained from this would be worth its weight in gold.

My reason for the last paragraph is just to explain that i would'nt be a complete green horn and to a certain degree understand spectrum and the limitations of the unlicensed band and what is possible and what is not and i think that with the proper directional antenas, power and security i might just solve my 10yr old bb problem and as i said have some fun and learn a lot along the way.

So to cut a rather long post short(sorry) can i do it and if so i would need an accurate shopping list. I'm gona post this on the Irishwan site also but there are some very smart and knowledgeable people here who will tell me straight up if this is more than just techinaccly possible but possible for an ametour/novice.

Jaysus, 10 miles is a bit far, its indeed possible but it would be tough to get 12mbps.

CorkWAN were using something similar to these in their setups:
http://www.osbridge.pl/24xli.php

However the specs appear to be outside your range:
Prędkość
11 mbps

5.5 mbps

2 mbps

1 mbps
Czułość (dBm)
-96

-99

-101

-106
Orientacyjny max. dystans (m)
3500

4440

5800

7500

Marlow

I wouldn't touch OSbridges. They cause nothing but trouble vs. I've multiple links of around 20-30km, that easy pass 12-14 mbit/s on Mikrotik equipment.

Also, the unit you are referring to is 2.4 GHz 802.11b. You will not ever pass more than 6 mbit/s tcp over 802.11b. You'll need to go 802.11g or 802.11a to get the fast speeds. 2.4GHz i wouldn't recommend, as you also are limited to 100mW.

/Martin

watty

fatboymsport wrote: »

www.irts.ie for all the ham info you need but there is nothing in ham radio that would help you with this problem.

1) You need a licence/ sit exam
2) The technology to do 100Mbps or even 1Gbps exists and can be deployed by "Wireless Experimenter"/Ham/Amateur. But 10Mbps & up would be LOS only and also available for commercial licence. Very likely only 10GHz band, though 1.2GHz might be possible for 10Mbps
3) You can't legally use a "Ham" link in Ireland for the Internet without weasling. More possible in USA.
4) Most 12Mbps gear that is reliable with the EIRP needed for 10 Miles needs a commercial licence. On 2.4GHz certainly even 100mw exceeds the EIRP limit on suitable dishes. I think a Licence free 5.8GHz outdoor link by a strict reading of specs ought to be registered?

5.8GHz needs pretty good LOS.

A PMR446 uses 443MHz. You don't need LOS for that at all, though it's true it helps, I've accessed Mt Lienster 435MHz band repeater from near Croom Co. Limerick on a hill top with about 500mW on a "rubber duck" aerial, so the PMR446 isn't a good guide. A cheap video sender on 2.4GHz using MMDS dish each end has done 6km non-LOS (Those are all FM Analogue). A generous interpretation of Comreg (by Comreg in the past) allows 500mW for those!




Even GSM900 MHz doesn't need true LOS.