Domestic violence - has it affected you/anyone you know?

Quality

I have a friend who has been a punching bag to boyfriends in the past.

She has had her ear drum perforated from being boxed on the head and her arm sprained. From the father of her child. They split up eventually.

The horrible thing was, she always got back with them after they did it to her.

She got hit on the side of the head with an iron by her last boyfriend, Broke up with him for a month and then got back with him.

What bugs me, is that she is a very independent young lady. I just find it hard to understand....

NextSteps

Quality, did she explain it to you? Did you get any insight into what was going on in her head, to go back to that?

Quality

Yeah she explains that she loves them and that they are sorry and that she wants to give it a try. in a nutshell.

It never works out though.

tallaght01

UB wrote: »

So is the conclusion of the self defence debate that confident women don't end up in abusive situations?

Not much help to those already in such a situation, is it, though?

To stick up for blue again here, i think she made a pretty simple point...That some kid of self defence training can help women who are exposed to domestic violence. It won't help them all. It might not even help most. But it has the advantage of helping women not get into the situation in the first place.

Some women suffer abuse over a long period of time. This problem is mutifactorial, and has it's roots in some pretty serious and complex psychological issues affecting both people in the relationship. The abuser needs to convince themselves that their actions are acceptable, and the "abusee" needs to be in a situation where they can't get out. These people are pretty unlikely to be helped by self defence training.

Some women get hit by their boyfriend, and immediately get out. This doesn't stop them getting a hiding, though. Martial arts training might stop them getting beaten.

Some women are being beaten/abused for a period of time, and one day decided enough is enough,and they fight back. This is a turning point for them, but the "fighting back" often results in a shocking beating. These women could be helped by martial arts training.

This is not rocket science.

Domestic violence/abuse doesn't only affect those who are suffering over a period of years locked helplessly at home. Not all women have low self esteem, and not all abusers exclusively date women with low self esteem. I use Watna's post below as an example.


As an aside, I was reading a research article on domestic violence recently. A LOT of research in this area is, to be frank, utter crap, but this study wasn't bad, and it's conclusion was that domestic violence is as bad in gay couples as in heterosexual couples.

This surprised me, though I can't put a finger on why.

Is anyone else surprised by that? Or does anyone have any thoughts about it?

Dragan

tallaght01 wrote: »

As an aside, I was reading a research article on domestic violence recently. A LOT of research in this area is, to be frank, utter crap, but this study wasn't bad, and it's conclusion was that domestic violence is as bad in gay couples as in heterosexual couples.

This surprised me, though I can't put a finger on why.

Is anyone else surprised by that? Or does anyone have any thoughts about it?

Not really, a relationship is a relationship regardless of the sex of those involved. Invariably a relationship will have a "dominant" character, even if that "domination" swings depending on the situation.

NextSteps

You may have noticed this PI thread by someone who was abused. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055325495
It's a lot to have gone through.

Reku

tallaght01 wrote: »

As an aside, I was reading a research article on domestic violence recently. A LOT of research in this area is, to be frank, utter crap, but this study wasn't bad, and it's conclusion was that domestic violence is as bad in gay couples as in heterosexual couples.

This surprised me, though I can't put a finger on why.

Is anyone else surprised by that? Or does anyone have any thoughts about it?

By gay did they mean homosexual male relationship or simply same-sex relationship? Either way it shows gender is not the basis of this problem, but I'm just curious.
I think it surprised you perhaps because you had bought into the idea that the motivations behind abuse within a relationship are more about gender/misogynism than bullying.
I think to some degree it stems from the fact that seldom in life will you get an interaction between 2 people where one is not more dominant while the other more submissive, even if only from the point of view of one being more talkative while the other tending more towards listening, take it to an extreme you end up with an abusive relationship, the real question is what makes the abuser seek this level of control and what makes the abused willing to allow it as opposed to fighting back/leaving.
Perhaps it is just that it happens so slowly the abused doesn't notice until it's too late, much akin to boiling frogs:
http://allaboutfrogs.org/stories/boiled.html

By the time they realise the water is boiling they just lack the self esteem to care if they're boiled alive as it's been whittled away by the other person.

Mikel

It might be galling.... but it might be true. But I don't know you so feel free to disregard anything I say.

Mikel

farohar wrote: »

Unfortunately quite often these reports twist the definitions of violence/sexual assault to put forward a predetermined agenda as opposed to doing genuine research.

need some real, unbiased, unadulterated and clear cut data on these issues, not just shock value figures!

they are detracting from the real plight of victims of genuine violence/sexual assault by using the various pieces of dubious data in such a way as to try shock people.

Again, obvious muddying up the actual figures by selective wording in favour of shock value, "impacting the lives of 1/3 females" does not mean 1/3 females will be victims but rather will know a victim.:rolleyes:

Agree 100%
I'll see if I can find a reference for above
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs/hors191.pdf
I think this is it

Maple

x

paperclip2

I've only skimmed some of the responses above so if i'm repeating stuff, apologies. I don't think its possible to easily pick out a type of person who will end up in some form of an abusive relationship, also i don't think that there is necessarily a 'type' that will stay in one. I have known confident assertive women,economically successful in their own right who have made the difficult decision to remain in an abusive marriage, i have also worked with shy, effacing women who have chosen to leave. One thing that struck me was how often the abuser seemed to be attracted to something in the psychological make-up of his partner that he wanted to possess for himself but couldn't. So instead of trying to cultivate the quality in themselves they try to control it in their partner and then the whole relationship became about control at any cost.

Something else I realised is just how paradoxical violence and abuse is, in an intimate relationship. It is often interpreted as an attempt by one partner to assert their dominance and show their strength. Ultimately though the violence and the rationale behind it represents a complete abdication of personal responsibility on the part of the abuser. They are giving control of themselves and their response to life to another human being which to my mind is the furthest thing from an assertion of strength, and is in fact, a pretty significant indicator of weakness.

Just my two cents worth.
Also cheers to Minesajackdaniels for a helluva post.

Gemini Sister

paperclip2 wrote: »

Something else I realised is just how paradoxical violence and abuse is, in an intimate relationship. It is often interpreted as an attempt by one partner to assert their dominance and show their strength. Ultimately though the violence and the rational behind it represents a complete abdication of personal responsibility on the part of the abuser. They are giving control of themselves and their response to life to another human being which to my mind is the furthest thing from an assertion of strength, and is in fact, a pretty significant indicator of weakness.

Just my two cents worth.
Also cheers to Minesajackdaniels for a helluva post.

Interesting. And I tend to agree. Now heres my two cents.

My circle of friends are grown up women with good jobs. Most of us myself included have experienced violence from a partner, some in the past, some more recently (not myself). This has ranged from pushes to broken teeth, bones and more. In most of these cases, when I ask who threw the first slap, it happens to be the woman. That doesn't excuse anything that follows of course. But for some women, 'frustration' seems to reason enough.

In my own foolish youth, I was in a number of these relationships myself, both as victim and agressor at different times (or are they sometimes the same thing as above poster suggests?). I attribute this to firstly, an addiction to the false 'passion' these relationships seem to involve; the sweet making up after the breaking up (kissing the bruises better); an unconscious? search for a male authority figure; my own control freak tendencies; low self-esteem, and frankly, not knowing how to live well (being a bit of a gob****e). Its a complex mix. No doubt I also sought partners as confused as myself.

For me, enlightment first came when a women told me to 'never hit back'. That let me manipulate a passive-aggressive stance for awhile but something must have sunk in - ultimately, I'm not sure what helped me break that cycle but accepting that violence is always weakness was a starting point (its hard to see someone as 'scary' and weak at the same time). He/she who punches first has already lost the fight. Also rejecting what I believe is a culture of 'victimhood'. This is not the 1930's; even Darndale is not Afghanistan. I believe we need to accept that domestic violence is not a a 'women's problem' so much as person problem. I understand that there are psychopaths out there, but 'men are bad' is just a bit too simplistic and its allowing alot of women to pigeon hole themselves. Everyone in an abusive relationhip must ultimately accept some personal responsibility, life isn't a Punch & Judy show. Sometimes without a particular psychological dynamic the baddies actually turn out to be fairly ok blokes. Thats my observation anyway and I consider myself a feminist.
Ironically, the only friend of mine who stuck with the path of victimhood to its extremes would probably agree... but thats her story.

Think I'm gonna change my user id after this post :D

P.S the reason the self-defense route tends to be unwise is cause it gives the abusive partner 'permission' to not hold back.

Odysseus

I would never percieve anyone who has encountered abuse as weak so I hope my post didn't give that impression. In a way it may be a semantic thing, part of my work used to also involve a debriefing service for those who were assualted whilst working, health care professionals. In the same way that if I'm attacked when I go out to lock my bike up before I go to bed I would see them as being a victim of an event. You have a perpetrator and a victim. For me the use of these words would have not negative connoctations. I sometime have to work with people who have assualted my colleagues, so I have to try and avoid negative conoctations.

As for the confidence side of things we all lack confidence at certain times or in relation to certain things. It really depends on the assoications one has with various terms. As a psychotherapist most terms such as low-esteem would carry no negative conoctations for me as most peoples esteem will change as the live their life.

I think you right though there is no black and white answers to this issue, though for me as one poster metioned personal responsibility has to be addressed. Why is the person staying in the relationship, or going from one abusive one to another. Some times a persons needs help to address this do that make them weak, not in my opinion. For years many people who needed therapy where percieved as weak, so its not something I would consider in relation to expereiencing domestic violence. Sorry its late when I got to this thread hope that makes sense.

monosharp

My mate used to get battered by his girlfriend. No real reason, we'd all be out and have a few too many and then she'd just start hitting him. Not even in the "Whingy bitch the whole world sucks" crying way. She was just off her head and smiling away. One second she'd punch him (and i do mean punch him), next thing she'd be talking to someone else about something completely off-topic. Her friends would even tell her stop and she'd just laugh.

My mate used to just grab her arms and hold her. Oh and this was in public and indoors.

Apart from that she used to really give him serious phycological abuse. He told me he'd far prefer the physical ****e then the mental ****e.

e.g > something goes wrong with her friends/job/family. He'd get blamed for not caring/not helping or just get shouted at/ignored/etc for no reason.

Nearly 2 years he put up with this ****. She was a nasty drunk. Even when she wasn't hitting him she was doing something else. one example -> we were out one night and all drunk on the way home. She decides to just lie down on the street. So we picked her up and tried to get her in a taxi, he wouldn't take her so my mate said he'd drive home. (yes drunk).

So got her into the car and they pull off. 5 minutes later I get a call to come help him because the bitch (who was pretending to be unconcious/asleep while we were carrying her and putting her into the car) was trying to open the passenger door. So my mate was driving drunk and changing gears with one hand while holding the stupid bitch with the other so she wouldn't kill herself.

So I had to come home with them and keep a hold of her. And no she didn't want to get out for any reason. She was too drunk to even talk.

So in the door of the house and then she starts hugging and kissing him.


Anyways ...

2 years he put up with this, getting slaps every night for no reason and thats just the ones we seen in public. Then he started hitting back, he actually told me it was more about the mental abuse then anything.

So she'd slap him and he'd push her. I don't think he ever punched her, he definately didn't in public but he did start hurting her. i.e > pushing her, holding her arms behind her back to walk her.

And you know what ? Fair play to him. Before that I could never contemplate a reason for physical violence against a woman by a man for any reason and now I know better. She thought she could do whatever she wanted especially in public simply because she was a woman. She could punch him, slap him, hit him with glasses. Didn't matter since she was a woman and he was a man. Her friends were a bit shocked at her but it was still relatively "ok".

But when he started fighting back ? Jesus then it certainly wasn't ok.

So my point ? I don't know. Just relaying a story.

Obviously my advice was always dump her because even if shes not all bad, the two of them togeather were obviously a recipe for disaster.

Reku

Mikel wrote: »

Agree 100%
I'll see if I can find a reference for above
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs/hors191.pdf
I think this is it

Thanks, I've skimmed through some of that. Unfortunately that report is using data from 12 years ago, hopefully they'll do a more up to date one.

I am rather surprised that the data would indicate a near 50:50 split between male and female for the gender of those abused & that about 1/25 seems to be the statistic for both is also worryingly high.

Young women aged 20 to 24 reported the highest levels of domestic
violence to the survey: 28% said that they had been assaulted by a
partner at some time, and 34% had been threatened or assaulted.
Although the higher risk for young people tends to suggest domestic
violence is increasing, it may also reflect a greater reluctance on the
part of older victims to mention domestic assaults to the survey, or
that incidents longer ago are less likely to be recalled in the survey
context.

:eek:
EXTREMELY worrying if domestic abuse is increasing.:(

Although the questions asked about incidents that would meet the
legal definition of an assault, only 17% of incidents counted by the
survey were considered to be crimes by their victims. Virtually no
male victims defined their experience as a crime, while only four in
ten chronic female victims did so.

We need to educate the other 83%, appears this would be particularly effective if you read the "Support and Advice" page and how this perception that it is/was a crime affects peoples' reactions to it.
The male abusees not considering the different incidents a crime, when taken in context with the reduced willingness of males in the report to admit to being frightened/upset by the incident shows stupid male machismo is still alive and well.:rolleyes:


Women are less likely to be still living with their abuser a year later, but also more likely to live in chronic abuse. So women are more likely to get out at the first sign of trouble but also more likely to hang around in the hope it will get better. How do we encourage those that hang on to realise they should let go?


The impact of ethnic group is rather disturbing, leaves me wondering if perhaps the reason is not so much ethnic group but certain religions well known for their strong misogyny since probability of being of a certain religion is often related to your ethnic origin as parents like to pass their religion on to their children.


Women in low income families were significantly more likely to be abused, whereas for men the family income had little impact.


For both genders having children in the household increases the probability of abuse.:eek: I know kids can add to the stress but this is not a healthy way to allow that to manifest, either for the couple or for the kids!


Females, relative to men, are more likely to abuse by throwing things & kick/slap/hit, whereas men are more likely to abuse by rape, use of a weapon, choking, property damage and push/shove/grab.


Males who suffer abuse are more likely than females to blame themselves.

taidghbaby

i'll start by saying i wasnt actually there but a friend of mine relayed the story to me.....

last year at a social gathering in the little parish, one of the most respected and upstanding pillars of the community, pinned his wife to the ground and started shouting aggressively in her face for dancing with another man!!!
he did this in front of a number of people.....but everyone was so shocked they did nothing about it-someone described it as car crash tv.....you'd just stand there motionless looking at it!!

now i know this fella is no saint but honestly (having known him for a few yrs and even worked with him for a while) didnt think he was like this!!

i suppose my point is that whatever the official figures for domestic violence, we probly dont know the half of it!!

tallaght01

farohar wrote: »

By gay did they mean homosexual male relationship or simply same-sex relationship?

This was same sex relationships. Same rates across the board. I remember being really taken aback by it, especially at the thoughts of the abuse occuring int he context of 2 females living together. Don't know why it surprised me so much, but it did.

Mikel

farohar wrote: »

Thanks, I've skimmed through some of that. Unfortunately that report is using data from 12 years ago, hopefully they'll do a more up to date one.

It is strange that it was so long ago...personally i think it's because various 'vested interests' have made up their minds what the issues are and are not interested in any research unless it's set up in a biased way that would back their view up