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How will they remove the M50 barriers?

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    #32
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    DublinDilbert wrote: »
    I think it was mentioned here, that they are only going to read front number plates, hence motor bikes will be free as they don't have one....
    If you look closely at the picture on my previous post you will see that the overhead gantries are equipped with frontal and rear facing cameras to catch front and rear number plates. One of the reasons motorcycles are exempt from E toills is because they do not have proper weather proof RFID E-toll plaza tags specifically designed for motorcycles, If they were availible I could guarantee bikes would be charged.


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    #33
    groomek
    Registered Users Posts: 232 ✭✭groomek


    what about foreign cars?will cars coming down from the north and uk drivers be paying.how many foreigners drive without being registerd here in ireland,I presume there is no way of charging them for this service


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    #34
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    groomek wrote: »
    what about foreign cars?will cars coming down from the north and uk drivers be paying.how many foreigners drive without being registerd here in ireland,I presume there is no way of charging them for this service
    No doubt this will be all harmonised in the near future between all european cars. Last week they made a start by passing a bill harmonising banned drivers between the UK NI and Ireland.


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    #35
    MAKE MY DAY
    Registered Users Posts: 104 ✭✭MAKE MY DAY


    Alun wrote: »
    The max speed limit on the M50 when all works are finished will be 100km/h.

    Probably a stupid question but why is the speed limit being reduced to 100 kph down from 120 kph. I thought the point of barrier free tolling was to increase the traffic flow etc.. Also for a road to have Motorway status it should be 120kph or am I wrong ??


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    #36
    eringobragh
    Registered Users Posts: 3,668 ✭✭✭eringobragh


    MAKE MY DAY wrote: »
    Probably a stupid question but why is the speed limit being reduced to 100 kph down from 120 kph. I thought the point of barrier free tolling was to increase the traffic flow etc.. Also for a road to have Motorway status it should be 120kph or am I wrong ??

    The EU AFAIK made them lower it due to it being an 'Urban Motorway'


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    #37
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,465 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    MAKE MY DAY wrote: »
    Probably a stupid question but why is the speed limit being reduced to 100 kph down from 120 kph. I thought the point of barrier free tolling was to increase the traffic flow etc.. Also for a road to have Motorway status it should be 120kph or am I wrong ??
    It's to do with the narrow(er) lanes, nothing to do with the EU (ROFL). A motorway can have any speed limit it likes AFAIK.


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    #38
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,904 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    groomek wrote: »
    what about foreign cars?will cars coming down from the north and uk drivers be paying.how many foreigners drive without being registerd here in ireland,I presume there is no way of charging them for this service

    They 'sell' the debt to a collection agency that has bought access to most of the foreign registration databases - who then hunt down the owner.


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    #39
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,456 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    what happens if you're driving an unregistered car on trade plates?


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    #40
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    what happens if you're driving an unregistered car on trade plates?
    Records will go back to the registered owner of the garage plates.


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    #41
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,456 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Records will go back to the registered owner of the garage plates.

    interesting.... so if I have an e tag, can I use it in multiple cars?


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    #42
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,788 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    At present there are 50 traffic corps cop cars driving around Dublin city fitted with ANPR cameras that can pick out any illegible plates in moving traffic.
    Recently there was a great hullabullu over the fact that two cars were getting APNR. I can't see how 48 more have received it without a sound.
    Have you a source for the number?


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    #43
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    kbannon wrote: »
    Recently there was a great hullabullu over the fact that two cars were getting APNR. I can't see how 48 more have received it without a sound.
    Have you a source for the number?
    This was as of last year and it is four cars not two that have them on the pilot scheme. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2007/0509/1178623505616.html
    colm_mcm wrote: »
    interesting.... so if I have an e tag, can I use it in multiple cars?
    You would have to check it out when applying for your E tag whether it is transferable on trade plates or not. The ANPR cameras will trace the trade plates back to the garage.


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    #44
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,788 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Fair enough.


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    #45
    DublinDilbert
    Registered Users Posts: 5,379 ✭✭✭DublinDilbert


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    Records will go back to the registered owner of the garage plates.

    I doubt they would be able to read the garage plate through the windscreen...

    I didn't know they were going to image back and front of the vehicle, i guess that gives them 2 chances to read it, and possibly see if they agree... Also could possibly deal with one car driving really close behind another car...

    I've seen ANP working before in toronto, but the cars had to slow to around 50kmph for it to work, at that time...

    Its not a trivial task to get a vision system like this working, in all lighting conditions (24 hours/day), in all environmental conditions (snow/rain etc), with different size moving targets...

    Also if your going to be charging money, the accuracy must be extremely high... Say you were able to read 99% of number plates, and 100,000 cars passed per day with no tag, you would miss 1,000 then these would have to be processed manually... I wouldn't say in reality you'd get anywhere near a 99% hit rate at....


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    #46
    mumhaabu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,031 ✭✭✭mumhaabu


    What happens to us poor chaps in the country who only ever visit the odd time? Will there still be a lane off to the side, or do we just get a bill in the post sent to the Registered owner of the Vehicle?

    I've only gone though it once in 2002 heading from south from Northern Ireland, and ended up getting lost in confusion and drove the Whole C ring to the road to Wicklow, bear in mind a I had a female "navigating" :pac:


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    #47
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    DublinDilbert wrote: »
    I doubt they would be able to read the garage plate through the windscreen... ....
    Placing garage plates behind windscreens may soon be a thing of the past as the glare from a wind screen would obviously make them illegible. I dont even know if they were ever officially allowed there in the first place. In the States and most other countries magnetic trade plates are the norm.
    DublinDilbert wrote: »

    I didn't know they were going to image back and front of the vehicle, i guess that gives them 2 chances to read it, and possibly see if they agree... Also could possibly deal with one car driving really close behind another car...
    Any gantry I have passed through on the continent and any pictures i have seen of them all have foreward and rear facing ANRP cameras, this would help rule out any error from dirty / damaged plates etc.
    DublinDilbert wrote: »
    I've seen ANP working before in toronto, but the cars had to slow to around 50kmph for it to work, at that time..Its not a trivial task to get a vision system like this working, in all lighting conditions (24 hours/day), in all environmental conditions (snow/rain etc), with different size moving targets...
    The system here will have teething problems and I cannot see them holding the 100KPH speed limit through this area. I can see them reducing this to 50 / 60 kph as people will only be distracted with the new system and the last thing wanted is for someone to do something stupid which could well happen in this country.

    I can also see them enforcing a minimum distance between cars entering through them because the gantry cameras are set at an angle which would have difficulty reading them in bumper to bumper traffic.



    DublinDilbert wrote: »
    Also if your going to be charging money, the accuracy must be extremely high... Say you were able to read 99% of number plates, and 100,000 cars passed per day with no tag, you would miss 1,000 then these would have to be processed manually... I wouldn't say in reality you'd get anywhere near a 99% hit rate at....
    I could see the first few months of this system with a very high error rate. People will be taking advantages of the lead in period and pleading ignorant if caught. As time passes the authorities will become wiser to the tricks used and severe penalties are imposed for those trying to cheat.
    mumhaabu wrote: »
    What happens to us poor chaps in the country who only ever visit the odd time? Will there still be a lane off to the side, or do we just get a bill in the post sent to the Registered owner of the Vehicle?
    For the moment you will be still able to use a cash lane however you will be penalised the full rate, this is to encourage more and more people to fit EFC Interoperable radio tracking devices to their cars and go cashless. I believe the barriers will be removed from these lanes but they will be instead dotted with ANPR cameras. http://www.nra.ie/News/PressReleases/htmltext,10469,en.html
    mumhaabu wrote: »
    I've only gone though it once in 2002 heading from south from Northern Ireland, and ended up getting lost in confusion and drove the Whole C ring to the road to Wicklow, bear in mind a I had a female "navigating" :pac:
    My advice is for you to sack your female navigator and get a GPS and set your destination to "avoid all toll routes". :D


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    #48
    Sids Not
    Registered Users Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭Sids Not


    Its all a bit Big Brother to me.....the thing that i'm concerned about the most is the fact that your name and address and your credit card details will be given out to private companies via your reg plate...i'm thinking of the potential abuse of this system.:mad:.....so gone are the days when only the Gardai had this privledge...:(

    Think i'll be paying as I go......;)


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    #49
    G-Money
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,199 ✭✭✭G-Money


    If you use EazyPass instead of E-Flow, do you still have the concern about third party's having access to your credit card details etc?


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    #50
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,904 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Run_to_da_hills wrote: »
    For the moment you will be still able to use a cash lane however you will be penalised the full rate, this is to encourage more and more people to fit EFC Interoperable radio tracking devices to their cars and go cashless. I believe the barriers will be removed from these lanes but they will be instead dotted with ANPR cameras. http://www.nra.ie/News/PressReleases/htmltext,10469,en.htmlMy advice is for you to sack your female navigator and get a GPS and set your destination to "avoid all toll routes". :D

    There has been no indication whatsoever of there being a 'cash lane' yet this is at least the second time you've said it. To pay cash you'll need to go to a pay point off-site, such as a newsagents of garage.


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    #51
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,904 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    grandmaster wrote: »
    If you use EazyPass instead of E-Flow, do you still have the concern about third party's having access to your credit card details etc?

    You've already given them to a single third party (NTR) just as you'd give them to a single third part (eFlow) with their tags.

    Every time you buy something with a credit card a 'private company' has your details ffs! Tinfoil hat paranoia on here.


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