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Older car / New tax system?

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  • 30-06-2008 10:36am
    #1
    OldmanMondeo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭


    Anyone know if it is possible to tax a pre-Jan 08 car on the new CO2 system? Had a look throught the VRT thread, but couldn't find anything.

    I have an 2006 diesel and could save €200 approx on the new tax system if I can get the car on it.


Comments

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    #2
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,975 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    In short No.


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    #3
    OldmanMondeo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭OldmanMondeo


    listermint wrote: »
    In short No.


    Ah well, maybe in the future.


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    #4
    clevtrev
    Registered Users Posts: 633 ✭✭✭clevtrev


    This must be unconstitutional ? why should someone with a car bought on Dec 31st 2007 with the same emissions pay a higher rate of annual motor tax than someone who bought the same car on the 1st of January this year!!

    I have a car bought in 2007 Im paying 840 euro motor tax which for the same car new this year has dropped to 600. I will continue to pay 840 until I upgrade which wont be for a quite some..where's the justice in that ??

    Are there any lawyers out there :confused:


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    #5
    Breezer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭Breezer


    Hardly unconstitutional but entirely unfair and unnecessary. I'm in the same boat here, if you look back far enough on this forum you'll find me ranting about it. I wrote to John Gormley months ago to complain. Apparently it's because he only has emissions data from cars stretching back to May 2005. Therefore, on Planet Gormley, he cannot possibly know what the emissions are on pre-08 cars. Additionally, he "doesn't want to punish people for purchasing decisions made in the past." I wrote back pointing out his slight mathematical error and the fact that he is in fact punishing me and others like me for buying an environmentally friendly car, while sparing those who didn't. I got no reply.

    I'm thinking of bugging him again soon if anyone else would like to join me?


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    #6
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,318 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    clevtrev wrote: »
    This must be unconstitutional ?
    Lol. I'd say Dev is spinning in his grave. :D

    Not your ornery onager



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    #7
    Lord Nikon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭Lord Nikon


    Please don't let them change it...my motortax would pretty much double if it does.


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    #8
    Breezer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭Breezer


    neuromancer wrote: »
    Please don't let them change it...my motortax would pretty much double if it does.
    The thing is, this was brought in in an effort to protect the environment. Now, if we were all purchasing new cars, this scheme would work just fine. Unfortunately, we're not.

    As was pointed out to me a while ago on these boards, scrapping an old car and producing a new one is very polluting. The cleanest thing you can do with a car is to run it into the ground and only then get it scrapped and pay for a new one to be produced.

    In order to get people to be green, it's best to give them a financial incentive. The obvious solution is as follows:

    1) Implement the new CO2-based system for all new cars, as has been done.

    2) Keep the old system for old cars, so that people are not unnecessarily scrapping their old cars and releasing lots of CO2 that way. This has been done.

    3) Allow people with older cars to switch to the new system when renewing their motor tax if it is financially beneficial for them to do so, thus removing the incentive for them to change their car a few years early in order to pay less tax in the long run. This was eventually done, after a U-turn by Gormley, but only for cars registered since January 08. Now, since according to himself he has CO2 data for cars stretching back to May 05, why can't this part of the system be implemented for all those cars, provided the owner benefits?

    My theories: either Gormley is incompetent, or as usual this is more about money than the environment or anything else.


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    #9
    E92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    OldmanMondeo wrote: »
    Anyone know if it is possible to tax a pre-Jan 08 car on the new CO2 system? Had a look throught the VRT thread, but couldn't find anything.

    I have an 2006 diesel and could save €200 approx on the new tax system if I can get the car on it.

    The key is in the bit in bold. You want it changed because it suits you;)!

    The problem with backdating it any further is that would be very unfair on the vast majority of motorists who always bought petrol up until July. Only 28% of people bought diesel last year, and that was the best year of diesel sales ever in Ireland until now.


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    #10
    Breezer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭Breezer


    So why not backdate it and let people optionally switch if it's financially viable for them to do so, as I've stated?

    For the record my car is petrol, not diesel.


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    #11
    Cionád
    Registered Users Posts: 2,000 ✭✭✭Cionád


    Unfortunately there's no chance the government would do that with the state of the public finances.


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    #12
    E92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    Breezer wrote: »
    So why not backdate it and let people optionally switch if it's financially viable for them to do so, as I've stated?

    For the record my car is petrol, not diesel.

    Because even then it would be completely skewed towards diesel owners, and would make any engine even remotely close to large impossible(2l and above) too sell.

    That's from a fellow blueshirt btw;)!


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    #13
    luvroad
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭luvroad


    OldmanMondeo wrote: »
    Anyone know if it is possible to tax a pre-Jan 08 car on the new CO2 system? Had a look throught the VRT thread, but couldn't find anything.

    I have an 2006 diesel and could save €200 approx on the new tax system if I can get the car on it.
    Unfortunately no, the new system only applies to new cars registered on or after 1/1/08. To simplify, if in 2 years time i.e 2010, you decide to buy an '08 or '09 registered car either in Ireland or from the UK, the car is then on the new system.
    Have a look at the motoring supplement of last Wednesdays Irish Times for a good synopsis of what I'm trying to confuse you about!


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    #14
    Breezer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭Breezer


    E92 wrote: »
    Because even then it would be completely skewed towards diesel owners, and would make any engine even remotely close to large impossible(2l and above) too sell.

    That's from a fellow blueshirt btw;)!
    Nice as it is to see you wearing that lovely shade of blue (:p), I'm still not entirely sure I'm convinced by that. If by keeping an older petrol model on the old system it kept it relatively cheap, as is currently the case with many models, I don't see how allowing efficient petrol and diesel models to move to the new system if financially beneficial would matter. Both would end up being cheaper to tax, making both viable options to buy second hand.

    It's not going to be changed in any case. And I'm not going to be majorly out of pocket, an Aygo is still damn cheap to tax. It's the principle of the thing that gets me. I try be environmentally friendly before I'm actually forced to be and I get a slap in the face for it. Oh well, I'll (hopefully) get my revenge at election time :p


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    #15
    eamon234
    Registered Users Posts: 1,924 ✭✭✭eamon234


    And more to the point - why should someone be effectively penalised because they can't afford (or simply don't want to buy) a new car?
    Don't forget Mr Gormley gave way to pressure from the motor industry NOT to allow older cars in the CO2 motor tax scheme as was originally planned.


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    #16
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Breezer wrote: »
    3) Allow people with older cars to switch to the new system when renewing their motor tax if it is financially beneficial for them to do so, thus removing the incentive for them to change their car a few years early in order to pay less tax in the long run....
    that won't happen because it's in your interest, it's not in the govt's interest....it is in their interest that you do actually change your car, as they make money off it - they actually don't give a flying ****e about CO2 or the environment.
    This was eventually done, after a U-turn by Gormley, but only for cars registered since January 08. Now, since according to himself he has CO2 data for cars stretching back to May 05, why can't this part of the system be implemented for all those cars, provided the owner benefits?
    again, because it'll lose the govt money. You, as taxpayer, don't count. Oh, and the data exists for all cars, under EU law, since 2001...........I'm glad I sold my 07 Galaxy now !! I'm tellin' ya.........come Budget in December, just watch Mr Cowan 'undo' those lovely car tax rates............he's not going to look at all that lovely lolly going uncollected (compared to the older cars......)
    My theories: either Gormley is incompetent, or as usual this is more about money than the environment or anything else.
    Is this a trick question.......?? ;);):rolleyes:

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #17
    billbond4
    Registered Users Posts: 2,413 ✭✭✭billbond4


    When I wrote to the Minister he said that there wouldnt be an "opt-in" for older cars to be taxed on CO2 emissions, as the local county councils would loose too much money.


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    #18
    Breezer
    Registered Users Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭Breezer


    billbond4 wrote: »
    When I wrote to the Minister he said that there wouldnt be an "opt-in" for older cars to be taxed on CO2 emissions, as the local county councils would loose too much money.
    The truth comes out. Now why couldn't he just say that to me as well instead of trying to make out that 2005 and 2008 are the same year and that he's some sort of philanthropist who cares deeply about those who bought large petrol cars in the past?

    This really pisses me off. :mad: I could go on a long, long rant about how this government has wasted money over the last 11 years but sure we all know that anyway so I'll spare you.


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